You can pay off fines in the system you got them in at any station.
Maybe understand the game before you cry on the forums?
Obsidian Ant NEW VIDEO - Crime and Punishment is Flawed
- Thread starter Maro-Val
- Start date
You can pay off fines in the system you got them in at any station.
Maybe understand the game before you cry on the forums?
Yes, but it's the travelling which is causing the issue here. The key word for me in Obs Ants vid was "inconvenienced" and reading the moans over the last few weeks would seem to bear this out.
So having the IF make contact with you would solve the problem while keeping the C&P exactly as it is.
This would also present some gameplay options.
Perhaps the IF agent could offer a mission in place of a cash demand. They are on the edge of the law after all. Maybe they want you to do some more crime first. Maybe they make you an offer you can't refuse.
This is a Crime and Punishment problem after all. Let's release the crime.
Apart from the fact you're seemingly once again "loading" a point - now people who don't think the new mechanic is working are "children?" - you're missing the point being made by OA and others. ie: You've nit picked two points and fixated on them. These are (as OS says) just two of many, and indeed just part of a broader issue with the entire approach of this mechanic, that doesn't really achieve what it sets out to, and worse still is convoluted and risks making the game less enjoyable.
IMHO the new mechanic is just clunky, complex, contrived and doesn't really achieve its goal, and certainly doesn't add to the quality of experience in the game.
What we'll see is FD band-aiding this new mechanics (again) which of course is now the third or so significant visit to this area? It's just not being thought though properly at FD? Or is just being thought through by the wrong people!
Last edited:
In fact you could just move to the jurisdiction where you're wanted and self-destruct, no need for another ship to be involved.
NPC's are like gimbals if you choose to use them you take the increased risk, actions have consequences. I recall my fighter if it's a furball, or more commonly just pilot it myself.
That way there's no chance of a mistake.
Imo, the mechanic couldn't be simpler.
1. Commit a crime, get a bounty, go the IF to get it cleared.
2. Commit murder and you have to wait for Notoriety to cool down before going to IF and paying the bounty.
3. Commit lots of murders and the ATR will come knocking til you die or leave the system.
Most people won't go past step 1.
It certainly does achieve the goal of adding just enough consequence that people (myself included) are suddenly a lot more careful about where my bullets fly and how I fly through the mail slot. This is a good thing because now flying like a jackass is no longer a consequence free option. Hence I now fly like a civilized person in an immersive galaxy where anti social behavior and etiquette actually matter.
One of the biggest takeaways for me here, is that in hindsight, I shouldn't have focused so heavily on the two examples in the video and should have instead focused far more heavily on the issue I was actually getting at. The C&P system is a complex mess. 
It seems the sticking point for many people is the "friendly fire" and "getting stuck" issue. To a large extent those are irrelevant, because they are just symptoms of the larger problem.
Some people say the C&P system is "simple". I disagree, because every time they say it's simple, they fail to factor in jurisdiction, Detention Facilities, where you will spawn, where you won't spawn, hot ships, hot modules, how you can clean them, when you can use them, when you can't use them, what constitutes a crime, what doesn't constitute a crime, notoriety, how does notoriety decrease, can you be docked to decrease it, do you have to be inspace to decrease it, what impact does notoriety have on station services, at what point do ATR turn up . And that without even discussing Powerplay, rebuys, scaling bounty costs etc. The list goes on and on. And the biggest crime in all of this, is that the game explains none of it to you.
Like everyone else, I want consequence in the game, and I want depth. But this isn't the way to go about that.
Some people say the C&P system is as simple as: Commit a Crime => Find IF and Pay Bounty / Get Destroyed and Pay Bounty.
But here is the reality:
Thanks to Uncle Jack Shaftoe - http://edcodex.info/?m=tools&entry=235
It seems the sticking point for many people is the "friendly fire" and "getting stuck" issue. To a large extent those are irrelevant, because they are just symptoms of the larger problem.
Some people say the C&P system is "simple". I disagree, because every time they say it's simple, they fail to factor in jurisdiction, Detention Facilities, where you will spawn, where you won't spawn, hot ships, hot modules, how you can clean them, when you can use them, when you can't use them, what constitutes a crime, what doesn't constitute a crime, notoriety, how does notoriety decrease, can you be docked to decrease it, do you have to be inspace to decrease it, what impact does notoriety have on station services, at what point do ATR turn up . And that without even discussing Powerplay, rebuys, scaling bounty costs etc. The list goes on and on. And the biggest crime in all of this, is that the game explains none of it to you.
Like everyone else, I want consequence in the game, and I want depth. But this isn't the way to go about that.
Some people say the C&P system is as simple as: Commit a Crime => Find IF and Pay Bounty / Get Destroyed and Pay Bounty.
But here is the reality:
Thanks to Uncle Jack Shaftoe - http://edcodex.info/?m=tools&entry=235
Last edited:
The mechanics are simple, the implementation is a half baked, ill thought out mess. I think that's what most of the discussion is about.
I've always thought this was one of FDs flaws, yes it was something that was needed, but then they go and make it so damn mind boggling that yet again people have to seek understanding for it elsewhere.
Nothing I've read about it here explains it as well as that flow chart and even that on a lazy good friday isn't something my brain wants to look at for more than a minute or two.
I agree, we were in need for a decent c&p... but this aint it.
i even dare to say that the older system was more fun.
at least it didnt had magic space police and when you hit something unintended you had to wear the dunce hat for 10mins..
One of the biggest takeaways for me here, is that in hindsight, I shouldn't have focused so heavily on the two examples in the video and should have instead focused far more heavily on the issue I was actually getting at. The C&P system is a complex mess.
It seems the sticking point for many people is the "friendly fire" and "getting stuck" issue. To a large extent those are irrelevant, because they are just symptoms of the larger problem.
On what basis they are irrelevant?
"Friendly fire" - player choose to go with powerful weapons from distance (to keep himself safe), while NPC cops and NPC bounty hunters help him. He min maximizes his effort. He gets burned. It is not a bug, it is by design.
"Getting stuck" - player choose to go with outfitting min maximing on their combat outfitting. It is huge risk. Player doesn't have fallback. Player suffer consequences.
How they are symptoms of anything than player choices?
Also what I said C&P can be explained in easy language. I will also point out that lot of this have been in game for long time.
Last edited:
The thing is you only need to know any of it in detail if it effects you, there are very few players (that I've seen anyway) who routinely and deliberately commit crimes complaining simply because they already understand the new system. They understand it in the same way I understand picking a location, reading the mission description, good outfitting choices and trigger self control vastly limits any chances of me committing friendly fire, and not going on a security ship murder rampage when you do make a mistake is the best way not to worsen a very minor problem.
If I feel like going on a splurge of piracy/murder/illegal missions then I'll either find out how it works through trial and error, or I'll look into it first and prepare for it. The outcome of that is on me and I'll be happy either way as it's what I chose to do.
I like the new C&P
One of the biggest takeaways for me here, is that in hindsight, I shouldn't have focused so heavily on the two examples in the video and should have instead focused far more heavily on the issue I was actually getting at. The C&P system is a complex mess.
It seems the sticking point for many people is the "friendly fire" and "getting stuck" issue. To a large extent those are irrelevant, because they are just symptoms of the larger problem.
Some people say the C&P system is "simple". I disagree, because every time they say it's simple, they fail to factor in jurisdiction, Detention Facilities, where you will spawn, where you won't spawn, hot ships, hot modules, how you can clean them, when you can use them, when you can't use them, what constitutes a crime, what doesn't constitute a crime, notoriety, how does notoriety decrease, can you be docked to decrease it, do you have to be inspace to decrease it, what impact does notoriety have on station services, at what point do ATR turn up . And that without even discussing Powerplay, rebuys, scaling bounty costs etc. The list goes on and on. And the biggest crime in all of this, is that the game explains none of it to you.
Like everyone else, I want consequence in the game, and I want depth. But this isn't the way to go about that.
Some people say the C&P system is as simple as: Commit a Crime => Find IF and Pay Bounty / Get Destroyed and Pay Bounty.
But here is the reality:
https://i.imgur.com/TJn6zs8.png
Thanks to Uncle Jack Shaftoe - http://edcodex.info/?m=tools&entry=235
Thankyou for posting that flow chart reference. I have been looking for a suitable visual for ages and was part-way into fleshing out one myself. I never realized it was so complicated .... it looks worse than the original C&P system !
Here, Sir, a little help for you:
In other words - iron out the underlying cause and they stop being relevant because without the issue, symptoms cease to exist.
No smoke without a fire.
Emmm no?
They are symptoms of very different problem - players not caring and not learning from mistakes. ED is about decisions, mistakes and not doing them again. Learning from your mistakes.
That's been essence of Elite since beginning.
Last edited:
Would you please stop bringing up that flowchart like it's a valid argument? You can make any process look as complicated as you want if you go about it the wrong way. I could make a flowchart showing you how to lace your shoes and have it include a hundred different steps to support the claim lacing shoes is complicated.
Yes this flow chart is a mess, it's weirdly organized, it includes superfluous information, it has two main flow lines (powerplay and regular crimes) without really making a clearly recognizable distinction between the two...
But in truth if you take 2 minutes to read through the C&P thread and understand it you wont need a flowchart at all because it is simple and for most people who aren't going to be involved in crime on a regular basis it can be summed up to Commit a Crime => Find IF and Pay Bounty / Get Destroyed and Pay Bounty.
Last edited: