October Community Update Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
I now officially hate open letters 
Honestly I thought the patch was very bumpy but not that big of a deal. Maybe because I don't play every day, so I could let it cool off a bit, I managed to not get burned by the mining bug.
This seems like overreaction, and I blame the open-letter-ers for this fine mess. I guess I'll just be looking forward to FC even harder now. Hope it doesn't make me all squinty looking into the distance for so long.
Honestly I thought the patch was very bumpy but not that big of a deal. Maybe because I don't play every day, so I could let it cool off a bit, I managed to not get burned by the mining bug.
This seems like overreaction, and I blame the open-letter-ers for this fine mess. I guess I'll just be looking forward to FC even harder now. Hope it doesn't make me all squinty looking into the distance for so long.
Allow me to explain this misunderstanding.
I have posted a quote by venerable mr. Miyamoto as a lesson FD should learn.
No comparison has been made.
The guy in the picture also isn't smiling, he is just showing his teeth.
By the way, Sean Murray proved him wrong, whoever he is...
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Well, some folk signed a petition, released an open letter claiming to be speaking for the entire community, FD took note, we'll have to live with the consequences.
In the mean time, I'm enjoying flying about in my one ship fleet.
In the mean time, I'm enjoying flying about in my one ship fleet.
Created a thread to discuss the Fleet Carrier delay and my prediction of it a month ago:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...o-defer-the-release-of-fleet-carriers.527150/
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...o-defer-the-release-of-fleet-carriers.527150/
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Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message. The September update was buggy even for FDev's very low quality standards. I'm surprised that it took so long before some players got annoyed enough to get a bit more vocal.
Since Horizons we get on delay after an other delay. FDev delaying things to fix bugs and improve the core game - for years now since Horizons.
The direction makes me happy, but frontier are at an ill believe it when I see it status currently.
First is the years of patches that have gotten to this state in the first place. Both good and bad quality aren’t by accident when building software...
Frontier have also done really questionable things to the game that are working as they intend (apparently).
So looking forward to the next patch to change frontiers running score.
The only thing that’s sad is confirmation that anything interesting is literally going to be next year December if it’s not delayed. That’s a really long time and exploration endgame is far from whole even to the knights. There’s some senior person who must be in some trouble atm.
Also when reading the announcement I somehow imagined the opening scene of half-life 2 and David Brabens tower slowly waking up and seeing what his elite dangerous had become after being asleep for so long. Staff changes, huge shifts in direction... Another one of frontiers mortal sins committed (say nothing developer goes back on their word again) something woke up there.
Or not and it’s more of the same. See what happens
First is the years of patches that have gotten to this state in the first place. Both good and bad quality aren’t by accident when building software...
Frontier have also done really questionable things to the game that are working as they intend (apparently).
So looking forward to the next patch to change frontiers running score.
The only thing that’s sad is confirmation that anything interesting is literally going to be next year December if it’s not delayed. That’s a really long time and exploration endgame is far from whole even to the knights. There’s some senior person who must be in some trouble atm.
Also when reading the announcement I somehow imagined the opening scene of half-life 2 and David Brabens tower slowly waking up and seeing what his elite dangerous had become after being asleep for so long. Staff changes, huge shifts in direction... Another one of frontiers mortal sins committed (say nothing developer goes back on their word again) something woke up there.
Or not and it’s more of the same. See what happens
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Point is, a lot of the same folk that put their names to the petition, to the open letters etc are going to be the same folk that are complaining about Fleet carriers being delayed as a result. It's just a fact.
I actually like the fact that they took note & are doing something about it & I'll keep playing regardless (just not on patch day).
This new aproach will not change anything. At the end there will be a similar number of bugs in the game as there are now, some new, some old but mutated into something else but still a bug, and some old just the same as ever.
Thats because many bugs are just the consequence of poor design decisions, like networking, and you won't redesign this, i guess. Open beta will reveal new bugs which are in the game right now but never reported. And you will produce new bugs as side effect of this process.
At the end nothing is won, or at least, little is won but the effort was huge.
This is, because you don't adress the real source of the poor quality of code. The reason for you releasing too much problems relative to new features is your poor development and release process in house. Change the way you produce software! I am not an agile evangelist, but i would say, that your performance is the prototype of problematic development process for the typical why change to agile development argument.
Use an up to date versioning and revision system (git comes to mind), where you can utilize many branches with small changes, quality control the branches (automatic testing seems not suitable for a complex game), release branches and game versions frequently. Other games are already doing this. Get feedback from us with a modern bug tracking tool, not your ridicolous issue tracker.
No beta needed at all, your current monolitic aproach together with uncoordinated community testing is cumbersome, slow and frustrating for us and more important for you and your developers.
Become fast and agile and you will produce more fun for everybody and more revenue in shorter time and with less people. Create other games with the free staff, more revenue. Unleash your real potential!
Get some help from external experts for software development, there are many. Fdev needs a modern software development process to cope with todays complexity! Or you will be DOOOOOMED!
Thats because many bugs are just the consequence of poor design decisions, like networking, and you won't redesign this, i guess. Open beta will reveal new bugs which are in the game right now but never reported. And you will produce new bugs as side effect of this process.
At the end nothing is won, or at least, little is won but the effort was huge.
This is, because you don't adress the real source of the poor quality of code. The reason for you releasing too much problems relative to new features is your poor development and release process in house. Change the way you produce software! I am not an agile evangelist, but i would say, that your performance is the prototype of problematic development process for the typical why change to agile development argument.
Use an up to date versioning and revision system (git comes to mind), where you can utilize many branches with small changes, quality control the branches (automatic testing seems not suitable for a complex game), release branches and game versions frequently. Other games are already doing this. Get feedback from us with a modern bug tracking tool, not your ridicolous issue tracker.
No beta needed at all, your current monolitic aproach together with uncoordinated community testing is cumbersome, slow and frustrating for us and more important for you and your developers.
Become fast and agile and you will produce more fun for everybody and more revenue in shorter time and with less people. Create other games with the free staff, more revenue. Unleash your real potential!
Get some help from external experts for software development, there are many. Fdev needs a modern software development process to cope with todays complexity! Or you will be DOOOOOMED!
"I wonder what will happen when/if fleet carriers do not arrive in December ... "
Hardly a prediction.
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Also for the conspirators out there, did this announcement happen because fleet carriers had to be delayed again (by 6 months no less) or because reddit had a swoon?
Actually this is more probably the wizard of oz write up to fleet carriers needing more time.
...Lol.
Actually this is more probably the wizard of oz write up to fleet carriers needing more time.
...Lol.
To be honest, this does not bother me too much. I just found a way to make very nice money that I've learned to enjoy but I don't like grinding so I'm going to take a short break from mining (if I can make myself) and do some other things to have a change of pace. Early last week I only had about 300 mill in cash but after this weekend I've double that and I know with some modest work, I can have over a billion this weekend. (woohoo)
I wasn't going to be afford an FC when it hit the shelves so this gives me time. I know the billionaires are dissappointed and I understand why.
GL HF
I wasn't going to be afford an FC when it hit the shelves so this gives me time. I know the billionaires are dissappointed and I understand why.
GL HF
So the space winnebago is being held for summer sale 2020 to set up a 1-2 for the next Elite expansion to drop as a console launch title.
On the one hand, it's good that they're focusing on a future point so much because studios don't have the guys doing the stuff for things that they don't expect to make money on. But on the other hand, that means future boy is the new bestie.
In one way it's smart too, because, as said this will make Elite a launch title. Where's Star Citizen? All the other space games are indie stuff. So suddenly Elite is the biggest or only space game launch title that's been in the making for 7 ish years. It'd be kinda funny if Bethesda.. well anyways.
The consoles are coming out for christmas 2020. Elite is not Frontier's biggest thing anymore or at least right now it's not. A delay until next summer is the smart thing to do. It's also probably the right thing to do (if the space winnebagos needed it. I'm not saying they didn't. I ain't saying nothin). It being a next-gen console release can also mean a few other things.
On the one hand, it's good that they're focusing on a future point so much because studios don't have the guys doing the stuff for things that they don't expect to make money on. But on the other hand, that means future boy is the new bestie.
In one way it's smart too, because, as said this will make Elite a launch title. Where's Star Citizen? All the other space games are indie stuff. So suddenly Elite is the biggest or only space game launch title that's been in the making for 7 ish years. It'd be kinda funny if Bethesda.. well anyways.
The consoles are coming out for christmas 2020. Elite is not Frontier's biggest thing anymore or at least right now it's not. A delay until next summer is the smart thing to do. It's also probably the right thing to do (if the space winnebagos needed it. I'm not saying they didn't. I ain't saying nothin). It being a next-gen console release can also mean a few other things.
It's pretty clear that these bugs and delays are related to core deficiencies in the game engine. The game engine is a fantastic simulation system, but it isn't flexible enough to handle the implementation of complex game mechanics in a reasonable amount of time. They're struggling against an engine that takes too much effort to produce too little in-game value.
Frontier seriously needs people on their team that understand the development of game mechanics outside of simulation features, such as:
Frontier seriously needs people on their team that understand the development of game mechanics outside of simulation features, such as:
- Building an actual progression model for the game. Areas that look for pilots of certain skill levels, with actual hand-crafted content to do, rather than the same missions over and over again. Something to do in the end-game, once you've got a good ship.
- Implementing player to player economy without being afraid of RMT.
- Providing meaningful gameplay in the background simulation.
- Fixing glaring game-balance issues, such as the stark, massive difference between non-combat ships and combat ships. It is so far skewed to the point of near-instant death that it makes Open completely unplayable unless you are combat oriented.
- Fixing the grind-oriented disaster that is Engineering. It currently follows a legacy MMO model - do repetitive, gamey, low-engagement content or fall behind the capabilities of others who don't do it.
Deleted member 110222
D
I signed the petition and I'm not complaining.
I'm bloody pleased actually.
I understand why people are disappointed by the new delay, but I am not sorry for them.
I'm very happy with the news:
I've finally caught up and read through the whole thread...
A great community update and I hope we'll see these continue to be regular postings
Focusing on bug fixing is a much needed policy shift which I very much welcome, along with the return of public betas - I hope the latter will be given the required time for devteam to implement fixes before live launches.
Delaying Fleet Carriers until after the quality and stability of the existing game is satisfactorily improved will have been a tough call, but big props to the team for making it - it's definitely the correct choice in my opinion.
Hopefully as FDev continues to increase its staff count the Elite devteam will also be reinforced enabling for quicker development (bugfixes, new content/features, iterations, QoL, etc).
After a year that many will remember as being a poor one for the game, 2020 is looking to be a fantastic year for Elite Dangerous o7
Really glad to see you guys actually willing to pump the brakes a bit and focus on quality. Could we get some indication on which bits of feedback you guys are focusing on at the moment? Bugfixes are nice and all, but I'm really anxious to see some serious refinements to the core gameplay loops. For example:
EDIT: different discussion > different direction, as originally intended.
- Restructuring of the Engineering grind to be more directly engaging and less of a chore (i.e., not necessarily reducing grind, but making it more enjoyable).
- Refinements to mission boards and factions to make participation more immersive (i.e., less "fetch quest" type design, more involved activities).
- Integrating equivalents of external resources (e.g., INARA, EDDB, etc.) directly into the game via the UI.
- Revisions/refinements to "novelty" features like multi-crew and SRV (outside of prospecting, anyway).
EDIT: different discussion > different direction, as originally intended.
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