Oculus vs. Vive 'head 2 head' in elite

[thesnowdog]

PSVR being the best selling mainstream option can only be a good thing for both the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive. It's going to be more financially beneficial for developers to port games to both platforms than it will be to develop for just PSVR. Developing for three platforms has always been and always will be cheaper to do.

Any VR solution selling well can only be a good thing for VR and VR development.

 

[grammatonfeather]

PSVR being the best selling mainstream option can only be a good thing for both the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive. It's going to be more financially beneficial for developers to port games to both platforms than it will be to develop for just PSVR. Developing for three platforms has always been and always will be cheaper to do.

Any VR solution selling well can only be a good thing for VR and VR development.

So you mean another 10 years of badly ported console games hitting the PC? You know... games ported to PC with auto-aim enabled by default. Games locked at 30fps because the console developer feels that 30 is sufficient even for the PC version.

I don't think PC VR needs to rely on a console for success and promotion. It's not like Sony understood the concept of consumer gaming VR until Palmer came along.

Sure it will "educate" a bunch of console kiddies that VR is a thing but that thing will be substantially limited compared to the PC.

VR needs to be brought into the education system as a learning tool for kids. No consoles required for that.

I would prefer to see PS games remain on the PS where they belong. If they can reduce and dumb-down a PC game to fit onto a console then that is ok I guess.

 

[thesnowdog]

You won't have ANY VR game running at 30fps no matter what platform it runs on. At the very worst we'll have straight ports running at 120fps or ports with upgraded textures running at 90fps...unless of course developers want players of their game blowing chunks all over the place.

 

[Oheck]

The photos I've seen, which include the front-facing camera edition and motion controllers don't look much smaller. 6cm instead of 8cm?

View attachment 94862
(old sensor left, new sensor right)

View attachment 94871
In operation they are lit with bright (power?) LEDs which are far from discrete. I'd not care, but my wife wouldn't accept them mounted in the bedroom.

They had to be mounted on opposing walls for the prototype, which I don't imagine has changed.

If 15 sq ft is not correct, can you clarify how much square footage would be required to tripod-mount the sensors so they function, with room to operate a PC inside the sensor area?

no, 15 sq ft is correct. I said "..sitting, standing, or up to a 15 sq ft area." You can customize your boundries, based on the area you plan on moving or standing in. If you are sitting it can handle that too. For me it is the versatility of the Vive that I find attractive. I can race in Assetto corsa, hop in my space ship in Elite, or stand up in my office area and utilize what space I have there to experience other things.

As for the lights on the lighthouse, they are covered if i'm not mistaken.

Spoiler

I don't think your room is going to be awash with green lighting.


Edit: Take a look at one developer (Cloudhead games), and how they are designing their game around different play environments...as well as designing a new control method which I thought was pretty clever.

[video=youtube_share;DwZt2jRE8PY]https://youtu.be/DwZt2jRE8PY[/video]

 

[Raxxla]

I'm a Developer, and have access to both systems Vive Pre and CV1. They are very much the same in display visual quality. You're not going to notice much difference in display screens. They both can do stand-up and sit down experiences. The Vive is a little bit more involved with setup, and it has some neat tools. The Rift is going to be a little bit more user friendly, only because they have been on the VR development road a bit longer. Here's the main question you should be asking, what games do I want to play? and for the most part the same games are being developed for both platforms. With some timed exclusivity on each. Personally I like the Vive controllers, they are very responsive you can actually juggle them. The Rift controllers are also nice, and can do some neat hand gestures while using them. But Vive has Valve behind them, and Valve is good at making games. So it's not about the Hardware you need to be thinking about it's the software.

 

[maxpare79]

I'm a Developer, and have access to both systems Vive Pre and CV1. They are very much the same in display visual quality. You're not going to notice much difference in display screens. They both can do stand-up and sit down experiences. The Vive is a little bit more involved with setup, and it has some neat tools. The Rift is going to be a little bit more user friendly, only because they have been on the VR development road a bit longer. Here's the main question you should be asking, what games do I want to play? and for the most part the same games are being developed for both platforms. With some timed exclusivity on each. Personally I like the Vive controllers, they are very responsive you can actually juggle them. The Rift controllers are also nice, and can do some neat hand gestures while using them. But Vive has Valve behind them, and Valve is good at making games. So it's not about the Hardware you need to be thinking about it's the software.

I kinda disagree with your comment Valve is good at making games lol ...How long ago was the last Half-Life and the last LFD? Valve is good at making a game distribution platform...not game themselves.

 

[SnugglySocks]

I kinda disagree with your comment Valve is good at making games lol ...How long ago was the last Half-Life and the last LFD? Valve is good at making a game distribution platform...not game themselves.

obviously forgot portal, portal 2 and DOTA2 as well. I think valve is good at games and delivery platforms.

 

[Distance]

obviously forgot portal, portal 2 and DOTA2 as well. I think valve is good at games and delivery platforms.

The only bad thing about vale is their support on steam, it's the worse support in the industry imo.

 

[Bertak]

The final required specs for the Rift were announced four months ago, GTX970/RX 290, i5-4590 8g ram. Final release specs seem pretty nice(2160x1200 @90Hz), better than the DK2, and all the reviews I've seen lately(E3 in July and since) seems to indicate the actual release mode of the Rift is pretty amazing. I'm actually looking at getting one myself next year, just need to upgrade my vidcard for it.

The Vive, haven't seen any reviews on it, but to be honest, I haven't actually looked. I'm not a fan of Valve or their products, they are FAR too LowestCommonDenominator driven for my tastes, and that is never a good thing for hardware, much less VR hardware.

I get a kick out of the 970 min spec. 970 over clocked can't hold 90 fps at 2560x1440 how is supposed to do 2160x1200 times 2? I will go as far and say a 980ti nor Titan X can hold minimum 90fps at 2160x1200 times 2 because they average 60-70fps at 2560x1440.

[video=youtube;uxzpcmvnPJU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxzpcmvnPJU[/video]

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I get a kick out of the 970 min spec. 970 over clocked can't hold 90 fps at 2560x1440 how is supposed to do 2160x1200 times 2? I will go as far and say a 980ti nor Titan X can hold minimum 90fps at 2160x1200 times 2 because they average 60-70fps at 2560x1440.

I think you do not quite understand the minimum VR requirements TBH. given a mobile phone is capable of VR and a ps4 is capable of VR, a GTX 970 certainly is.

The point of the minimum spec for VR is not the recommended spec for running normal "monitor" AAA games in VR, it is the minimum spec that a custom made for VR game that oculus will allow on their store must be able to run. (and on top of that no one said a GTX 970 will be able to run said game on ultra detail!).

ED proves this......... it is NOT a primarily VR game, (though it is smashing in VR) and this shows because the minimum spec is > a GTX970.

however all of the launch VR games by all accounts run perfectly well on a GTX970

on top of that your resolution is wrong 2160x1200 is the combined resolution for BOTH eyes so it is 1080x1200 per eye, though this is not the exact answer either as games do have to render more than that.... around 10% more iirc.

 

[Bertak]

I think you do not quite understand the minimum VR requirements TBH. given a mobile phone is capable of VR and a ps4 is capable of VR, a GTX 970 certainly is.

The point of the minimum spec for VR is not the recommended spec for running normal "monitor" AAA games in VR, it is the minimum spec that a custom made for VR game that oculus will allow on their store must be able to run. (and on top of that no one said a GTX 970 will be able to run said game on ultra detail!).

ED proves this......... it is NOT a primarily VR game, (though it is smashing in VR) and this shows because the minimum spec is > a GTX970.

however all of the launch VR games by all accounts run perfectly well on a GTX970

on top of that your resolution is wrong 2160x1200 is the combined resolution for BOTH eyes so it is 1080x1200 per eye, though this is not the exact answer either as games do have to render more than that.... around 10% more iirc.

I totally understand. You can dumb the graphics and resolution enough for ps4 specific games to run vr. Same goes for a phone. I was going on the reports from others here in these forums who claimed the resolution was going to be that. Guess they didn't want to admit that I was right when I said the resolution on the release rift was going to be terrible so current top 10% gaming pc's could run it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I totally understand. You can dumb the graphics and resolution enough for ps4 specific games to run vr. Same goes for a phone. I was going on the reports from others here in these forums who claimed the resolution was going to be that. Guess they didn't want to admit that I was right when I said the resolution on the release rift was going to be terrible so current top 10% gaming pc's could run it.

I guess your definition of terrible and mine is different. For this 1st generation consumer vr I think the specs are fine. If it's not good enough for you then wait another 5 years imo improvements will come fast

 

[Arithon]

It does not require them to be wall mounted, you can put both on the desk - there is even a youtube demo showing how well this works, even if you do get up and walk around.
The CV1 needs that camera on a big stick on your desk, so this is not really any worse.

I'd be interested to see that video, if you could link it that would be great.

If you mean THIS video, then you can see the guy has at least 8-10 sq ft behind his 90inch desk. You'll also note the sensors are wired and LED lit bright green as I have said (other posters have said is not the case) and positioned around 2 metres apart - not an option for me.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;tpWz_LcPXrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpWz_LcPXrI[/video]

I am going purely on what I have personally experienced, which is the sensors are bulky (even the new "small" ones are large - 6cm x 6cm x 3cm) and have always been wired and wall-mounted when I've seen them. If they don't require this, it seems silly to always demonstrate them used that way.

See old and new here:

Spoiler

This is what the new ones look like running:

Spoiler

So, if they can have the bright green LED running lights turned off and be used on a 30inch wide desk with very little surface space, please let me know how. Because this is the reality for me (which Oculus does work with).

Spoiler

The second reason for choosing the CV1 over the Vive was the issue of weight and comfort, which was a stumbling-block for the Oculus DK2 headset. Oculus have conquered this by going very light with minimal straps. The HTC Vive was far more like the DK2 and while generally comfortable the headset will suffer the same issue when worn for longer periods (over an hour). The new camera model looks to be heavier (from first hand-accounts I'm hearing).

The Vive is in it's first full "release" iteration, while with the DK1 and DK2, the Oculus with the CV1 is in it's third - I would suspect that the next version of the Vive will have smaller, more discrete sensors and a lighter headset, which will be when I'll be looking at buying one.

 

[Jonathan E]

Arithon, yes that's the vid I had in mind. He shows it works perfectly well when seated, with the lighthouses on the desk. As these are pre-production, maybe they'll dim the green lights, they seem a bit pointless anyway.

 

[Oheck]

I'd be interested to see that video, if you could link it that would be great.

If you mean THIS video, then you can see the guy has at least 8-10 sq ft behind his 90inch desk. You'll also note the sensors are wired and LED lit bright green as I have said (other posters have said is not the case) and positioned around 2 metres apart - not an option for me.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpWz_LcPXrI

I am going purely on what I have personally experienced, which is the sensors are bulky (even the new "small" ones are large - 6cm x 6cm x 3cm) and have always been wired and wall-mounted when I've seen them. If they don't require this, it seems silly to always demonstrate them used that way.

See old and new here:

Spoiler

http://www.roadtovr.com/wp-content/...ive-developer-edition-unboxing-15-700x465.jpg

This is what the new ones look like running:

Spoiler

http://cdn2.alphr.com/sites/alphr/f..._vive_hands_on_-_lighthouse.jpg?itok=OWspR2i2

So, if they can have the bright green LED running lights turned off and be used on a 30inch wide desk with very little surface space, please let me know how. Because this is the reality for me (which Oculus does work with).

Spoiler

View attachment 96033

The second reason for choosing the CV1 over the Vive was the issue of weight and comfort, which was a stumbling-block for the Oculus DK2 headset. Oculus have conquered this by going very light with minimal straps. The HTC Vive was far more like the DK2 and while generally comfortable the headset will suffer the same issue when worn for longer periods (over an hour). The new camera model looks to be heavier (from first hand-accounts I'm hearing).

The Vive is in it's first full "release" iteration, while with the DK1 and DK2, the Oculus with the CV1 is in it's third - I would suspect that the next version of the Vive will have smaller, more discrete sensors and a lighter headset, which will be when I'll be looking at buying one.

Ok...again, you are misrepresenting the Vive Pre lighthouse units. That is how they look with a clear plate on the front, to show the mechanism inside.

THIS...is how they look, with their shaded front plate...

This is how it looks LIT up....

Now i'm not saying this because I want you to buy a Vive. You choose whichever one you want. I thinks its great there are actually options for VR. I just have to say something though as I see far to much misinformation out there, and often times its from Oculus fans, or those that have issue with VR in general (Not to say you are either of those).

Also, the lighthouse units can be run wirelessly (just one line for the power), with no cords going to the PC.

 

[Aldric]

The only bad thing about vale is their support on steam, it's the worse support in the industry imo.

I agree, steam support is terrible, i had my account hacked and could not acsess my steam games, it took so called steam support over 2 weeks to respond after me having to write 5 seperate reports to them about having my account stolen, they eventually fixed it telling me what i already knew, that my account had been stolen, i also had a strong steam password but not as strong as the wording on the fifth email i had sent to them about the theft,, but for 2 weeks i had no acsess to over a hundred games i had bought on steam, so i will never buy vive from steam, once bitten badly, twice shy, i will keep my pre order for Oculus thanks after owning 2 DK2s with no technical problems whatsoever.

If steam cannot respond in a reasonable timely manner to a very serious issue concerning theft on their site of an account, i can only imagine the lack of support over a Vive that starts to malfunction.......... vive and steam can go take a hike.........

 

[Mack Winston]

OK, the real important question:

Is the Vive pronounced to rhyme with Steve, or is it pronounced to rhyme with hive. I feel it should rhyme with Steve but I don't want to make a fool of myself if I discuss this device offline some time...

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

OK, the real important question:

Is the Vive pronounced to rhyme with Steve, or is it pronounced to rhyme with hive. I feel it should rhyme with Steve but I don't want to make a fool of myself if I discuss this device offline some time...

Rhymes with hive. HTC are not French http://uploadvr.com/htc-clarifies-once-and-for-all-the-pronunciation-of-the-vive/

 

[Gray Lensman]

So you mean another 10 years of badly ported console games hitting the PC? You know... games ported to PC with auto-aim enabled by default. Games locked at 30fps because the console developer feels that 30 is sufficient even for the PC version.

I don't think PC VR needs to rely on a console for success and promotion. It's not like Sony understood the concept of consumer gaming VR until Palmer came along.

Sure it will "educate" a bunch of console kiddies that VR is a thing but that thing will be substantially limited compared to the PC.

VR needs to be brought into the education system as a learning tool for kids. No consoles required for that.

I would prefer to see PS games remain on the PS where they belong. If they can reduce and dumb-down a PC game to fit onto a console then that is ok I guess.

What will happen is what always happens, the lowest common denominator will ruin it for the rest of us.
The masses will be unable to afford the equipment actually required to implement VR so the manufacturers will dumb down the tech and spin it that it's the real thing but much lower priced.
This is why, for example, we had poor quality mp3 running through monophonic bluetooth speakers and not DVD-A as the source for Krell and Martin-Logan kit.
This is why PC gaming is in trouble because kids and others think that godawful consoles are 'real' gaming equipment.
Already I'm seeing reviews trying to spin that the SONY PlayStation VR headset is comparable to the Rift but much better value ...
The problem is that the top 10% of earners in the world are those people required to get a new technological concept off the ground but the bottom 90% are required to keep it there and keep the shareholders happy.

 

[Oheck]

What will happen is what always happens, the lowest common denominator will ruin it for the rest of us.
The masses will be unable to afford the equipment actually required to implement VR so the manufacturers will dumb down the tech and spin it that it's the real thing but much lower priced.
This is why, for example, we had poor quality mp3 running through monophonic bluetooth speakers and not DVD-A as the source for Krell and Martin-Logan kit.
This is why PC gaming is in trouble because kids and others think that godawful consoles are 'real' gaming equipment.
Already I'm seeing reviews trying to spin that the SONY PlayStation VR headset is comparable to the Rift but much better value ...
The problem is that the top 10% of earners in the world are those people required to get a new technological concept off the ground but the bottom 90% are required to keep it there and keep the shareholders happy.

Well, maybe they should have released two versions. One that improved on the DK2, but kept it within the $350 (75 hz) price range, and a premium headset for $600 (90hz). I know they were thinking that if we don't release this as perfect as we can get it, then VR will not take off. Unfortunately a high price and hardware requirements can have exactly the same affect.