This may tip the scales........
http://www.androidauthority.com/htc-vive-price-667174/
http://www.androidauthority.com/htc-vive-price-667174/
Oculus vs. Vive 'head 2 head' in elite
- Thread starter SnugglySocks
- Start date
Please gents and gals... cease the rumour spreading.
Sony had already stated that they gave no price to Amazon and Amazon stated that the price was a place holder, no different than the date that was on the site (Amazon.ca) as the end of the year (Q4).
The other article on the Vive price is complete speculation referring a lone individual that pulled out numbers out of thin air (Average monthly income of HTC engineers) to set a price.
Both are unfounded and one was already addressed as false.
I know we want to guess the stuff, but like the CV1 every one were way off the mark.
So the best to do at this time is to wait and see what the Actual price is going to be.
I think you are a little mistaken about the Vive's lighthouse boxes. Heres the info from what I have read:
- They a small cubes that do not need to be connected to the computer, all they need is power. So you will not need to trail cables across the floor. (I think there might be the possibility to use batteries, but we will have to wait until they show the final version)
- The boxes are synchronized wirelessly, so again no cable required, (although the vive pre version still allows you to use a cable if you want).
- They have two standard camera tripod sockets, one on the bottom, the other on the back, to allow you to use existing tripods/wall/ceiling/desk fixings if you want, or you could just rest them on a desk/table. (As you mentioned)
- Earlier I was reading a discussion and somebody mentioned that someone at Oculus publicy admited that the lighthouse system is better, however, Oculus could not use it due to a patent that Valve owns (I'm pretty sure its Valve, although it might be HTC)
- They do not use bright green LED's. They use a wavelength in the Infra Red band that is outside of the wavelengths that the human eye can perceive.
- Only one is required for 3D position tracking, but more provide the capability to deal with occlusion.
- The system will support more than two (but currently the SDK only supports a maximum of two).
I do like the addition of the camera in the Vive. One of the issues I have seen mentioned is the awkwardness of using the keyboard within VR, so hopefully it will provide a more convenient option.
I would actually like them to add a second camera to provide stereoscopic vision from the cameras. This would allow depth perception to be calculated and that could help future AR projects.
With regard to price, it will defininately be more than the Rift. To get a fair comparison in price you would be lookign at the price of the Rift + the price of the touch controllers. My prediction is the touch controllers will be around $200, so I expect the whole occulus package with touch to be around $800. Based on this I would expect the Vive to be priced competitively so would most likely be in the range $800-$1000, maybe upto around $1200, depending on HTC/Valves desired profit margins.
Converting to UK prices that include VAT @20% and excluding shipping I expect the Vive to be somewhere around £599-£799, although it wouldn't suprise me if the final UK price incl VAT is as high as £999.
Personally, I am waiting for the Vive because I can see myself using the extra bundled capabilities, but if the price ends up above £800 excl shipping, I will be seriously reconsidering, and will likely purchase a rift.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Yeah, I saw that, it was from a Taiwan Financial Broker. The original article listed the PSVR as $1,125 (CAD). So it is unclear whether that USD or CAD. If its correct, and in USD then myself (and probably a lot of others) will be purchasinga Rift instead.
My guess is also $800-$1000 for the Vive.
I think Oculus will release their touch controllers for $75-$100.
I think Oculus will eventually release a Leap Motion-like camera attachment for the front of their headset powered by Nimble for somewhere between $50-$100.
So by the time you add in the things Oculus needs to equal the capability of Vive, I think they will be very similarly priced.
If Oculus releases the aforementioned camera, I think it will be much more capable than Vive's built-in camera (hand-tracking).
thanks for the in-depth review post Arithon interesting points.
I do think support is a big factor, all well and good having launch titles, but if people don't continue to develop for the platform then the headset will quickly go the way of the dodo.
having an open platform (i.e. an engine that can drive multiple types of HMD's) will almost certainly end up being a deciding factor, common api's in things like directX, I think, is what made windows a massive platform for game development as it allowed stuff to 'just work' on whatever GFX card you had.
Not sure how this would work in the HMD world, but with this in mind, the vive, with steam behind it, is in the much better position to go that way,,,,
primary factors for my purchase right now is visual quality. What I am missing there is something like a time demo (harking back to doom days here) running identical sequences through both the CV1 and then the Vive so you can properly discern which excels.
I have been watching the 'premium' talk over at vive land and do suspect that $999 is not entirely unlikely. But if better subjective quality is given, I would still seriously consider the purchase. I like wider view angles ( I sit near the front at the cinema specifically to fill my view
), but I would prefer more clarity in the visuals. My experience with DK2 and the screen door effect certainly did not dent my enthusiasm, the immersion was great, but I would be disappointed if that is there, at all, on consumer versions.
CV1 and facebook. It is my suspicion, that if facebook had not bought the company, I don't think we would have seen the CV1 before 2017 and if we had, it would have been more expensive and plagued with supply issues. But, all of this still does not offset the fact that it is facebook. superior visual quality would though.
things that make you go........
I do think support is a big factor, all well and good having launch titles, but if people don't continue to develop for the platform then the headset will quickly go the way of the dodo.
having an open platform (i.e. an engine that can drive multiple types of HMD's) will almost certainly end up being a deciding factor, common api's in things like directX, I think, is what made windows a massive platform for game development as it allowed stuff to 'just work' on whatever GFX card you had.
Not sure how this would work in the HMD world, but with this in mind, the vive, with steam behind it, is in the much better position to go that way,,,,
primary factors for my purchase right now is visual quality. What I am missing there is something like a time demo (harking back to doom days here) running identical sequences through both the CV1 and then the Vive so you can properly discern which excels.
I have been watching the 'premium' talk over at vive land and do suspect that $999 is not entirely unlikely. But if better subjective quality is given, I would still seriously consider the purchase. I like wider view angles ( I sit near the front at the cinema specifically to fill my view
), but I would prefer more clarity in the visuals. My experience with DK2 and the screen door effect certainly did not dent my enthusiasm, the immersion was great, but I would be disappointed if that is there, at all, on consumer versions.CV1 and facebook. It is my suspicion, that if facebook had not bought the company, I don't think we would have seen the CV1 before 2017 and if we had, it would have been more expensive and plagued with supply issues. But, all of this still does not offset the fact that it is facebook.
superior visual quality would though.things that make you go........
Okay, the ones I saw on HTC's stand at EGX had green LED's on the sensors - I realise the sensors themselves use IR - but whether these were power indicators or whatever, they had them and they were VERY noticeable.
The boxes are NOT small. Maybe the prototypes were larger than the final version, but the version I saw were wired (for power only perhaps, but they had what looked like speaker cable to them) and they were larger than two inches square.
I was told two were required - if that's not the case, great. But my wife still wouldn't go for it. They did say as long as you had two lighthouses in the room, multiple headsets could be used with them.
I would really like someone who has used the prototype and tried the release version to let everyone (me included) know what has changed.
Like I said, Vive is very good, but based on my personal experience not good for me.
When comparing the estimated price of the Vive, we need to take into account it comes with hand controllers. For a fair comparison, we would need to compare the Oculus Rift CV1 price WITH the similar Touch controllers. At this point, we don't know how much those will be, but if the Touch controllers come out to $200, that puts the total Rift at $800. Not too far off from $1000 that many expect Vive to sell at.
That said, I don't have the space for Vive's room scale, and suspect the Oculus sets will be lighter and more ergonomic, so I'll probably stick with Rift for now (pre-ordered for March, baby!).
That said, I don't have the space for Vive's room scale, and suspect the Oculus sets will be lighter and more ergonomic, so I'll probably stick with Rift for now (pre-ordered for March, baby!).
Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
I very much doubt you'll be able to read a keyboard through the vive camera. They're banging on about edge detection and AR - I'd imagine it's more an outline - the kind of stuff a Kinect generates if there's nobody in shot.
If you're going to go VR, you need HOTAS, and if you have a decent one, you really don't need any more keys.
If you're going to go VR, you need HOTAS, and if you have a decent one, you really don't need any more keys.
Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
How was the screen door effect, and the fresnels?
oculus.com states:
*Expected Ship Date: June 2016. Limit 1 per Customer
Soooooo, maybe don't get your hopes up. After all these are 'pre-orders' which also means 'How many of these should we make'. Demand is more than likely going to outstrip supply, as is par for the course for any piece of super shiny tech, even when backed by the deepest of pockets.
The ESD changes as orders are placed.
What about folks who can't touch type? Might be hard to find "COL 285 Sector UG-3" on the galaxy map. Maybe VR games will come with virtual keyboards. Works on my Roku.
The previous vive dev kit version had larger lighthouse boxes and those required a sync cable. The pre version included the wireless sync option.
I am only going by what I have read/seen from the different shows and other info that people have mentioned that attended those events, so, unfortunately, I do not know whether there is a glaring power LED or similar on the newer lighthouse boxes.
The only other to remember is HTC/Valve are still planning another design iteration for the final consumer version, so things are still subject to minor changes. However, I suspect the Vive pre is going to be close to what actually becomes the consumer release.
Having two lighthouses is pretty much regarded by most people as minimum due to how detrimental occlusion affects the VR experience, and if you turn to put the lighthouse behind you then this is almost guaranteed to occur.
If you're only planning on using VR with ED and are not interested in the room experience, then paying the premium for the extra hardware doesn't make sense. From what I have read, there really is little difference between Oculus Rift CV1 and Vive Pre, unless HTC do something to make the Vive HMD clearly better (like adding a higher res screen, although that would also increase the minimum PC/GPU spec).
It would definately be useful if someone who has actually seen them first hand to comment. (i.e. someone who attended the CES event in Las Vegas).
The other devices I have been keeping a keen eye on for potential future upgrades that I think will really open up VR to all games, especially FPS are:
- Virtuix Omni (Omni directional treadmill, now available for $699 + taxes + shipping, unfortunately for UK shipping is $100-$200, so UK price incl VAT + shipping is about £650-£720)
- MOCAP tracking, especially the gloves for full hand and finger tracking - See perceptron neuron (unfortunately this is really expensive currently, can buy gloves separately ($100 each ), but this needs a hub that is only available in the kits... that start from $1499)
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Well, the only other option is voice control. I have managed to get phonetic and dictation input working using voice attack and it can work in the galaxy map.... but it really isn't very nice to use.
The worst case with the vive camera is you see an outline of the keyboard and mouse (hopefully outlines of the individual keys), so at least you can find where they are, however, you would still need to know whereabouts the keys are on a keyboard with no marks.
Best case is you actually see some kind of semi-transparent overlay of what the camera sees, then you should be able to see the keyboard. (Whether the overlay lines up well enough at the closer range is the next question)
Just saw this... HTC Vive + MOCAP using Perceptron Neuron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0TVLGne3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0TVLGne3U
The sensors are now wireless, and smaller. And I wish people would stop saying that the Vive requires a 15' area. That is not some minimum requirement. It can handle sitting, or standing, or up to a 15' square area. That makes it quite versatile. You are interested in VR for this game as well, which does not require you to stand at all. Obviously FD liked it as it is now the only VR system they endorse on their advertisements and website. Oculus is no where to be seen.
The $800 price tag you mentioned on the Sony VR is not correct. Sony already made a statement that Amazon posted that price in error, as they have not announced a price yet.
Yeah, that is pretty awesome stuff.
Just found an interesting explanation regarding the lighthouse tech. Its from early last year, so might not be 100% accurate now, but I think it might answer some of the questions:
http://metaversing.com/2015/03/23/examining-the-valvehtc-vive-ecosystem-basic-lighthouse-operation/
http://metaversing.com/2015/03/23/examining-the-valvehtc-vive-ecosystem-basic-lighthouse-operation/
Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
The Omni isn't available yet. I backed it during the KS about what, 3 years ago? They're only now shipping a handful of units to people for feedback - it *should* actually appear this year, hopefully, but it's by no means "available now".
There's been quite a bit of feature creep after their successful KS campaign - so much so they went off and created their own pointless FPS (TRAVR) and all sorts of nonsense, when really they just need to get the Omni out the door. If it's not out alongside CV1, there'll likely be quite a few refund requests. Omni are even now talking about offering shares in the company - but why you'd invest in a company which hasn't shipped a physical product which is 2+ years late is beyond me - and gives me cause for concern...
scroll...... scrolllll....... scrollllllllllllll. Drat, I clicked on something 20,000Ly in the distance!
depends if the ESD is for your order when placed or a more general indicator. if the ESD is repeated on your receipt/invoice/order confirmation then all well and good. If not, it means nothing at any point really.
Plus green LED's are a no go for me, if I am to justify it to my wife, it must have blue LED's. I can have anything if it has blue LEDs!
so the jury is still out on this due to various points.
How many people are interested in buying but will be waiting for the CV2 or the Vive2? As in, when all the initial bugs have been ironed out.