Odyssey Going Forwards

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Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
zimms said:
Why do you act like this has always been this way? Even Frontier themselves acknowledge that this is a rather recent change.
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fdev: lets have a rapport. heres a topic, lets discuss.
players: offtopic, posthunt, rambling, egotycoon, blaming, whining.
fdev: this is not helping. maybe we should separate comprehensive official informations from all that.... tomfoolery. if nothing else, then for the clarity and clearness.
players:
pikachu.jpg
 

BDelacroix

BDelacroix
marx said:
Lying would require intent, which these models (= not actual AI) don't have. It would be better called misinformation, but hey, "the AI hallucinated" sounds better than "the LLM chatbot produced misinformation", no?
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Especially since misinformation has become a buzzword and political club these days.
 

zimms

zimms
varonica said:
Well I don't see anything in that response saying it was a recent change, the recent change is indeed implied by the questioners phrasing but the reply doesn't actually address that the behavior was changed recently. You are drawing an inference from the poster of the question and then applying that to FDEV's response, which isn't actually contained in the response. I am not sure how long ago the change happened, but I certainly remember seeing some informational posts being locked quite a while ago.

I would have to do some research to see how far back the behavior goes, but really I don't care enough, the fact is they want us to discuss things in the discussion forum and not the news forum, not a problem.
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The questioner was Sally herself. It's a preemptive FAQ/disclaimer because it was obvious people would ask these questions. "Recent" is of course a relative term, but I guess about two months. Just pick some threads in the news section and you will see this added at the end of the post.
Shadowsnog said:
fdev: lets have a rapport. heres a topic, lets discuss.
players: offtopic, posthunt, rambling, egotycoon, blaming, whining.
fdev: this is not helping. maybe we should separate comprehensive official informations from all that.... tomfoolery. if nothing else, then for the clarity and clearness.
players:View attachment 361109
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fdev: give use feedback about this particular feature.
players: give constructive feedback for months
fdev: lol, suckers. as if we'd care

Those imaginary conversations are pretty easy to come up with. (y)
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
zimms said:
The questioner was Sally herself. It's a preemptive FAQ/disclaimer because it was obvious people would ask these questions. "Recent" is of course a relative term, but I guess about two months. Just pick some threads in the news section and you will see this added at the end of the post.

fdev: give use feedback about this particular feature.
players: give constructive feedback for months
fdev: lol, suckers. as if we'd care

Those imaginary conversations are pretty easy to come up with. (y)
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100 pages of constructive feedback just in this thread. Imaginary indeed
 

yianniv

yianniv
varonica said:
They have been in the past, nothing new there. These aren't threads that are being locked, these are informative posts that the CM's consider better discussed on the actual user forum father than the admin news forum so as not to have multiple threads running simultaneously which has happened in past. You get posters posting about it in the informative post, you get users making threads in the user forum section, you get people cross posting in both threads at the same time that just leads to confusion.

They don't want you to comment on those informational posts, they want you to discuss it in the appropriate place in the user forum where it belongs.
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I don't remember it being this way in the past (which doesn't mean it wasn't :) ). But it definitely started after that Discovery Scanner announcement on 27th March, when Sally was frustrated by Avod's answers.

Edit: I don't like this trend, I feel excluded from the conversation. Being in the Info or General Discussion, I think we should be given the opportunity to reply to same threads, not fragmenting it around in various threads.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
BDelacroix said:
That and their propensity to just make it up. Called hallucinating. Weird terms they come up with to explain why an AI just outright lies.
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The interesting thing is, by the terms of what a Large Language Model program is, the statements which are true are exactly equally "hallucinations" as the ones which are false. All of it is by design it outputting strings not found verbatim in its training data.

Both are it working by design to produce plausible sentences not found verbatim in its training data. And, you know, that's really impressive - English's structure is not simple, being able to produce grammatical sentences without them being hard-coded is a major breakthrough, being able to interpret and decode prompts written in plain English with decent reliability to quite a detailed level perhaps even more so - but the statements being accurate rather than grammatical isn't a goal and only appears by coincidence.

And yeah, it's all cutesy stuff to market them as not just "another computer program" [1], as is calling them AI at all. Maybe next time I switch "min" and "max" in a spreadsheet I'll blame the wrong answers on it hallucinating or lying to me, too.

(If they'd sold it honestly as "we've made some major breakthroughs in parsing natural language grammar; here's a toy chatbot using it which is unfortunately stuck in 'annoying overconfident internet guy' mode because of where we found the training data, but fun for a few hours entertainment" ... but that wouldn't get the billions in VC funding, and too many of the people working on these are the true believer sort who fifty years ago would have been claiming that Eliza is the only one who understands them)

[1] My main concern with all this stuff is that it's an attempt to say "this computer program is too complicated to understand why it does X" => "therefore neither the programmers nor the users can be blamed if it does X" which I expect the courts will eventually decide is complete rubbish but only after a bunch more people have suffered.
 

angusmadmac1

angusmadmac1
Threads get fragmented all the time someone takes issue with 1 part of the thread or a response or in some cases at the poster . That's forums, everyone has an opinion that's right . The same post when read or interpretated by someone else can be taken as meaning something else .
 

varonica

varonica
yianniv said:
Yes, by excluding the most relevant one. 🤷‍♂️
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But it's often not the most relevant one and often get's bunged up with off-topic posts, that's the point. The most relevant post is the post in the forum discussion where people are invited to discuss things and the forum moderators can keep an eye on them. The threads in the news section often go wildly astray because FDEV are the ones who need to monitor them, forum posters actually look under the proper user forum to discuss stuff, in the news section and you often end up with just a couple of posters on the threads poster over and over again.
 

yianniv

yianniv
varonica said:
But it's often not the most relevant one and often get's bunged up with off-topic posts, that's the point. The most relevant post is the post in the forum discussion where people are invited to discuss things and the forum moderators can keep an eye on them. The threads in the news section often go wildly astray because FDEV are the ones who need to monitor them, forum posters actually look under the proper user forum to discuss stuff, in the news section and you often end up with just a couple of posters on the threads poster over and over again.
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My method of reading the forums is by clicking on the "New Posts" link. That way I see most recent posts and thread updates. I find it convenient instead of visiting every subforum like exploration, etc. I may lose some info when I don't visit the forums frequently or there's too much traffic, but in the second case the missed threads surface when new posts are made.

Lately I realised I was missing new info on updates, and the locked threads are the cause. Unless someone refers to those threads, I'll have to search for them actively.
For example, the recent sale was announced by Sally. I didn't see it. Someone mentioned the sales prices were wrong in a different thread, and I saw that. Well.
I mentioned it here after others did.
I still don't like it, I think Sally took it too personally. Her prerogative, but this is my opinion. Unless it's a decision from above, but I still don't like it.
Besides, my OCD feels this fragmentation is "wrong". :)
 

zimms

zimms
Shadowsnog said:
are you making argument that fdev is locking threads with link to an unlocked thread or just a straw man?
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No, you seemed to claim that the community's ability to give constructive feedback was imaginary.

Btw, I wouldn't need to make an argument about Frontier routinely locking news threads now. Just take a look for yourself. Or pretend it doesn't happen, I don't really care.
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
zimms said:
No, you seemed to claim that the community's ability to give constructive feedback was imaginary.

Btw, I wouldn't need to make an argument about Frontier routinely locking news threads now. Just take a look for yourself. Or pretend it doesn't happen, I don't really care.
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so by linking one thread you want to say that other derailed, spammy threads dont exist? existence of B means A is not existent?
barbossa.jpg
just to recap
fdev is locking threads and that is bad. argument used: i want to have a place where to discuss. (and i guess you cant just make a thread, you need someone from the fdev team to make the thread to discuss...)
i say some threads are just informational and are locked to prevent discord and dilution of the message.
you seemed to claim that that doesnt happen and that fdev is locking posts because they consider us suckers and dont care.
i argument that you dont need to go far for an example how the discord can happen. giving a reason to lock some threads.
you seem to act like i said that there arent indeed unlocked threads with a good discussion. sent a link with an unlocked thread with a good discusson, disproving your original argument that fdev is locking threads and preventing discussion.
you seem to claim again fdev is routinely locking threads with discussion. in a thread full of discussion.
and in the end we are informed that you actually just really dont even care.
(in aber heards lawyers voice) did i read that right?
im sure the grapes were nasty sour little things, not fit for a gentlemans eating :p
have a nice friday and a great weekend ;)
 
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