Odyssey trailer - thoughts?

[CMDR Sophie Joanne]

Definitely not at this stage. Sorry to break it to people but this is Elite Feet 1.0 and not only is it on a similar scale to other entire titles, it's being fitted into - and has to mesh with - an existing game. When you're doing things like that, it's about installing the basic game levers and trying not to break the rest of the game while you do it. Learning to walk before you try to run.

Stuff like AI behaviour is a trivial balance issue compared with integrating the new vehicles (player feet) into the control bindings, player logs and codex, making sure they and NPC's don't fall through the floor, know where the walls are and developing everything from the HUD to the backpack. Get it in, get it working, enjoy the fact you can land from a neutron jump and worry about polishing the AI next, once game breaking database bugs have been ironed out.

It's a big +1 to the devs from me.

Nail, Head, something something

 

[thistle]

Just thinking out loud, but Starports might have a similar mechanic (or implemented in the future?) (obviously with alot more security, possibly multiple cores) requiring a whole team of people to storm it successfully. It could add some great BGS or Powerplay options, especially for capturing a Starport for your faction, instead of just having a space war (doing this could potentially kick off a war?).

Edit: Ignore me, I've just remembered they said starport would be a no-fire/safe zone

Would be funny though, like attacking police in GTA

 

[CMDR Sophie Joanne]

Would be funny though, like attacking police in GTA

Aha, that was GTA3 endgame stuff - spawn a tank and see how long I could last

 

[znôrt]

Definitely not at this stage. Sorry to break it to people but this is Elite Feet 1.0 and not only is it on a similar scale to other entire titles, it's being fitted into - and has to mesh with - an existing game. When you're doing things like that, it's about installing the basic game levers and trying not to break the rest of the game while you do it. Learning to walk before you try to run.

fair and pretty good attempt at damage control. but you really lost it with this:

Stuff like AI behaviour is a trivial balance issue

sorry what? ai behavior is actually still an unsolved problem at large, a hugely complex and fundamental part of any combat scenario. the whole list you are juxtaposing it to, all of it together amounts to nothing but a triviality in comparison to solving this single challenge.

the whole argument is misguiding anyway. of course ai can be tuned or even rewritten later. like everything else. of course new frontier releases have always been barebone placeholders to expand in the future (unless somehow forgotten, cough). i wouldn't have expected anything else. the point is that i would never have expected such a bad barebone placeholder either ....

it's going to take a very long way to "polish" that. i seriously doubt it will ever happen.

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

So the pre-alpha Odyssey gameplay trailer is out.
You see three devs raiding a base then flying away.

My thoughts:-


Animation is poor. Players walking are just pure cringe! It’s uncomfortable to watch.
FPS element looks worse than, well, every single other FPS game out there.
Bases will be procedurally generated - does this mean the same old same old scenario again and again?
Lots of unrealistic elements to the trailer, particularly the NPC behaviour. And I’m pretty sure this will get dull quite quickly.
Oh, and no VR.
Gotta say, I was kind of neutral about Odyssey. After seeing this, I could not care less for it at all!
FDev have got it very very wrong in my opinion. Start with the ships. That’s why we play, to fly space ships. Start there, let us walk in our ships. Let me see where I sleep, where I live, all that stuff. I want to see the cargo hold. Let me look out of all the windows that aren’t part of the cockpit.
What about manual ship repair? Let me float outside my ship and fix that dodgy laser that keeps breaking down.
All that stuff!
That’ll do for Odyssey 1. Then build from there.
Sorry FDev, you’ve dropped a ball here...

It looked rusty, unfinished and definitely not ready for a release any time soon. I'd rather wait another year or so for a highly polished final product than a rushed out "lets patch it when issues arise" mess.

 

[Winterwalker]

sorry what? ai behavior is actually still an unsolved problem at large, a hugely complex and fundamental part of any combat scenario. the whole list you are juxtaposing it to, all of it together amounts to nothing but a triviality in comparison to solving this single challenge.

The reason I think the way I do is because ED is not the only game developed by Frontier that uses NPC AI. A tagline they use for Planet Coaster for example is Simulation Evolved and that uses both random character generation and NPC motivation to simulate realistic - and computationally runnable - crowd fluids. Pretty cool they are too.

Obviously that's a very different game but developments in ED play into other games and vice versa. The more they develop AI and simulations in ED the more their other titles will benefit. Watch for a standalone city based FPS in the future perhaps but none of that changes the complexity of dovetailing Odyssey with the ED Horizons BGS which as a key goal of Odyssey version 1.0.

 

[znôrt]

... but none of that changes the complexity of dovetailing Odyssey with the ED Horizons BGS which as a key goal of Odyssey version 1.0.

... so in your opinion that is the hard part and where we will appreciate all the hard work gone into all these months (years), in the innovative and nuanced way in which the new foot play retrofits into the bgs.

well, it indeed sounds interesting that it will not be just a copycat transposition from cockpit missions to ground missions, particularly because a simple transposition is exactly what they said it would be a few months back ...

 

[Winterwalker]

... so in your opinion that is the hard part and where we will appreciate all the hard work gone into all these months (years), in the innovative and nuanced way in which the new foot play retrofits into the bgs.

I'm not saying it's hard so much as I think it's where the real heavy lifting is in this patch. Control bindings, player stats, BGS tie in and state changes relevant to Odyssey (boom and famine), interaction points, doors that open, guns and tools that work, HUD's, inventories, collision models, I'm sure people can think of more .. add all this up and (if it's the subject) NPC AI is quite a small part of the whole. One that can be focussed on for independent improvement once you're fairly sure the main (38 ball) juggling act landed successfully.

 

[CMDR ROGER]

Generic modern trite.

 

[robbyp]

I'd suggest a simple solution. People who dont think Frontier can pull it off please dont buy it. People who think they can please buy it.

And they have a budget, and can only do things within that budget.

Also they cant change course now, or add your favourite missing feature, it's too late. The feature set is what is will be for launch.

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

I'd suggest a simple solution. People who dont think Frontier can pull it off please dont buy it. People who think they can please buy it.

And they have a budget, and can only do things within that budget.

Also they cant change course now, or add your favourite missing feature, it's too late. The feature set is what is will be for launch.

agree in general with the sentiment but cant see people using that many braincells lol. The whole "games in alpha" era of PC gaming means people throw cash at pretty ideas before they are even plausible or possible (SC cough cough)

 

[CMDR Sophie Joanne]

agree in general with the sentiment but cant see people using that many braincells lol. The whole "games in alpha" era of PC gaming means people throw cash at pretty ideas before they are even plausible or possible (SC cough cough)

Have you ever played SC? I was on for 3 hours last night - i didn't experience a single crash, bug or disconnect. It is very much possible and plausable, especially with modern hardware (I never played it early days, so can't comment on how it used to be)

 

[alexzk]

agree in general with the sentiment but cant see people using that many braincells lol. The whole "games in alpha" era of PC gaming means people throw cash at pretty ideas before they are even plausible or possible (SC cough cough)

Depends, that is only 1 game I bought in last 15 months - Odessey So ..why not if I like idea?

 

[Alien]

The reason I think the way I do is because ED is not the only game developed by Frontier that uses NPC AI. A tagline they use for Planet Coaster for example is Simulation Evolved and that uses both random character generation and NPC motivation to simulate realistic - and computationally runnable - crowd fluids. Pretty cool they are too.

Obviously that's a very different game but developments in ED play into other games and vice versa. The more they develop AI and simulations in ED the more their other titles will benefit. Watch for a standalone city based FPS in the future perhaps but none of that changes the complexity of dovetailing Odyssey with the ED Horizons BGS which as a key goal of Odyssey version 1.0.

Back when they made RCTIII it was rumoured that RCTIII was Frontier developing large crowd NPC AI for use in a future game.

I must stress it was a rumour, and we had no official info to go on.

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

yes and it wasnt a dig at the entire SC but rather a dig at the promises that are easily made by companies in general when it comes to aspirations versus reality. SC is a great game in its own right but it took a bloody long time to get to the stage its currently at and will take a damn longer time to get to where it promised it will be.

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

Depends, that is only 1 game I bought in last 15 months - Odessey So ..why not if I like idea?

I love the idea and since this games inception its what i have wanted but that, for me, doesnt detract on how unfinished it looked. No amount of drama through voice chat makes up for the reality of a bland, vanilla FPS experience. Thats not to say that Frontier wont get it right in time but i think that if they release anything close to what they showed in the preview gameplay video, it will be panned on Steam reviews etc and will do no favours for the game.

 

[alexzk]

I love the idea and since this games inception its what i have wanted but that, for me, doesnt detract on how unfinished it looked. No amount of drama through voice chat makes up for the reality of a bland, vanilla FPS experience. Thats not to say that Frontier wont get it right in time but i think that if they release anything close to what they showed in the preview gameplay video, it will be panned on Steam reviews etc and will do no favours for the game.

To be honest, they completely ignore what I need from space legs - I.e. reasonable exploration, not like +10 extra flowers. It is not shown. Because I understand most profit will come from FPS which I don't care any way.

 

[JeffRyan]

I'm not interested in the FPS side of things (my gameplay is more exploration) but it was pretty and I liked the gameplay. +1 from me. It's a great starting point. I do want to walk around my ship though, but that stuff belongs in an expansion .something update to Odyssey.

 

[CMDR Sophie Joanne]

yes and it wasnt a dig at the entire SC but rather a dig at the promises that are easily made by companies in general when it comes to aspirations versus reality. SC is a great game in its own right but it took a blood long time to get to the stage its currently at and will take a damn longer time to get to where it promised it will be.

Fair enough (and I'm not a SC fanboy either, Elite is still, and probably will be, my first choice space game).
It just ticks me off when people compare ED/SC/NMS - they are all great games in their own way, but the only comparison, really, is "it's in space"

I now understand your previous comment better and appologise if I read it the wrong way!

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

To be honest, they completely ignore what I need from space legs - I.e. reasonable exploration, not like +10 extra flowers. It is not shown. Because I understand most profit will come from FPS which I don't care any way.

I never really wanted to see a whole FPS shooter come from space legs but rather an immersive FP experience (boarding ships, a social lounge, face to face meetings and just a more human side of things in general in the universe.

Fair enough (and I'm not a SC fanboy either, Elite is still, and probably will be, my first choice space game).
It just ticks me off when people compare ED/SC/NMS - they are all great games in their own way, but the only comparison, really, is "it's in space"

I now understand your previous comment better and appologise if I read it the wrong way!

Not a problem and likewise. I think all those game are great in their own way. I think the real issue lays with the method of development that most pc games undergo these days