Odyssey VR specific bug reports - please contribute!

jojon

J
Arioch said:
...I don't think it's worth submitting an issue report...
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Good call - I could just not let it go unmentioned altogether. :p

About something you said a few days ago, by the way, about the behaviour of cloud sprites in another game... It occurred to me, for a bit of pointless trivia, that we probably have something not entirely dissimilar in the hyperspace tunnel. The "cloud" billboards fade before they reach you most of the time, but the occasional one survives longer, and can be seen whooshing by.

They do not rotate with your head, and they do not stay strictly aligned with the ship either, keeping their orientation in the tunnel, even as it spins; But they do flip around on some axis, just as they pass your ship, or your camera position - not necessaily so that they face either; It can look a bit crazy. Sometimes they will roll past like tumbleweed; Sometimes doing a backflip perpendicular to-, or parallel with you; Sometimes swivelling like a wheathervane -- in all cases seeming to rotate around whatever orientation their local coordinate system spawned with, and not anything global.

(The sun coronas still appear well behaved, by the way -- they stay "heads up" relative to the sun, as it should be, rather than following the frame around, unlike their sibling lens glare and mass ejections from the same suns... :7)

...

Hmm, wonder whether the shadows that turn on and off could be some sort of near clipping plane issue, with some of the the cascading shadow map rostrums...
 
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Esare Kranse

E
JR250 said:
es, I get better FPS and visual clarity when I push it to 1.3 than lower resolutions. Counterintuitive, but it worked for me.
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I went for 'VR High' Quality which drops back to Fidelity CAS, but I can push the HMD quality up to 2.0 and remain stable in most places unless I use a station menu. Station menus require me to pretend I'm wearing a neck brace and move only my eyes, This'll bork hard when I get a headset with Eye tracking though...
 

Arioch

Arioch
Esare Kranse said:
@sallymorganmoore Here's a suggestion, could you propose that the Entire FDev team be forced to ONLY play the game in VR, using Mid-level rigs and Quest 2s, for the next couple of Months. Even better if they are banned from using Air Conditioning in the room at the time.
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Please don’t invoke the SallyPing for a mini complaint - I’d rather not have CMs (and a very helpful one at that) annoyed at VR CMDRs. Let’s save it for serious issues, kind of like the BatSignal? 😁👍
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New issue report, but a suggestion rather than an actual bug: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/52132 - Autoswitch display - and I think it’s a very good suggestion, one which I thought was going to be implemented when the Odyssey VR announcement was made, ie. if you take off your HMD then the game would automatically switch to your flatscreen display. Project Cars 2 does this and it is seamless.

I’m not adding it to the OP as I’m reserving that for bugs, but I’m going to add my confirmations as I think it’s a good idea.
 

jojon

J
If an autoswitch option is added, the implementer may need to keep in mind that every HMD does not necessarily have a sensor to detect its being worn.
 

Esare Kranse

E
Arioch said:
Please don’t invoke the SallyPing for a mini complaint - I’d rather not have CMs (and a very helpful one at that) annoyed at VR CMDRs. Let’s save it for serious issues, kind of like the BatSignal? 😁👍
———
New issue report, but a suggestion rather than an actual bug: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/52132 - Autoswitch display - and I think it’s a very good suggestion, one which I thought was going to be implemented when the Odyssey VR announcement was made, ie. if you take off your HMD then the game would automatically switch to your flatscreen display. Project Cars 2 does this and it is seamless.

I’m not adding it to the OP as I’m reserving that for bugs, but I’m going to add my confirmations as I think it’s a good idea.
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I don't know, the game becoming unplayable as soon as you interact with anything on a station, and forcing you to restart your machine AND HMD is a bit more than a 'MINI complaint' I'm glad you have a nice high end headset, High end Graphics card, and shares in the National Grid, but the performance in VR and the fact that once FPS drops, it NEVER recovers is a strong indicator of a serious memory or thread management issue somewhere in the code. If they find and sort it, the Entire community VR or not will benefit.

As to the linked suggestion, I would really push back on that. For a start, Meta Quests go into sleep mode once you take off the headset and rarely recover the game Video, regardless of the game. And secondly, it breaks the immersion. My EARLIER suggestion to flatten menus was Graphically, STILL in VR, NOT switching to the Flatscreen, which would make it even worse if I had to get up, and go over to my desk in the real world to do anything to do with station services.

'Flattening' means to remove 3d Effects, Transparrency and background effects, creating effectively a 2D desktop interface. It does not mean the flat screen in a VR cinema that FDev have chosen to do for on-foot. Ideally, It would appear like you were in a Cylindrical room with the menus displayed on the wall of that room a few feet away. Head movement would still move around the page, especially for those that choose to use the head movement cursor. If you've ever used the VR virtual desktop software vSpatial, that'll be an example of the style.
 
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Dragsham

Dragsham
Yup agreed defo a problem as u approach flight path of assets...closer the worse it gets...mines totally red showing 40% plus reprojection in VRfps. And 21 fps but for me I hammer through it with a monster gpu. If it wernt for that it would be unplayable in my current resolution.
 

Arioch

Arioch
Esare Kranse said:
I don't know, the game becoming unplayable as soon as you interact with anything on a station, and forcing you to restart your machine AND HMD is a bit more than a 'MINI complaint'
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I haven’t experienced this problem - have you submitted an issue report?

Ps. Quest 2, 3070ti (recently upgraded from a 1080), and no shares in anything 👍
 

Esare Kranse

E
Arioch said:
I haven’t experienced this problem - have you submitted an issue report?

Ps. Quest 2, 3070ti (recently upgraded from a 1080), and no shares in anything 👍
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I have submitted a report in significant detail.

I'm very happy for you that your third most powerful Nvida Card ever, is keeping up with the current release's demands. Just wait till the 4100 ti comes out and someone with one, poo-poos your report of poor performance, because your old 3070 can't keep up with the demands of Update 18's error-laden rendering.

If the rendering quality of ED was anywhere near the likes of Unreal tournament, then I'd be ok with needing to lash out £1000+ on a GPU to run it smoothly, but it isn't. I have plenty of games that render far better quality, both on screen and in VR on my old 1060. Doesn't mean I'm not going to be buying a 3090Ti next week, (I am), but I should expect near reality to be rendered for that level of spend, especially as it is in other Games.

All I have to do is take a look at the (Admittedly non VR) rendering of EVE (Which is FREE) across my triple QHD screens, and know it's not the age of my GPU that's the problem.
 

Arioch

Arioch
Esare Kranse said:
I have submitted a report in significant detail.

I'm very happy for you that your third most powerful Nvida Card ever, is keeping up with the current release's demands. Just wait till the 4100 ti comes out and someone with one, poo-poos your report of poor performance, because your old 3070 can't keep up with the demands of Update 18's error-laden rendering.

If the rendering quality of ED was anywhere near the likes of Unreal tournament, then I'd be ok with needing to lash out £1000+ on a GPU to run it smoothly, but it isn't. I have plenty of games that render far better quality, both on screen and in VR on my old 1060. Doesn't mean I'm not going to be buying a 3090Ti next week, (I am), but I should expect near reality to be rendered for that level of spend, especially as it is in other Games.

All I have to do is take a look at the (Admittedly non VR) rendering of EVE (Which is FREE) across my triple QHD screens, and know it's not the age of my GPU that's the problem.
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Do you have a link to your issue report? I’ll gladly add it to the OP.

My first couple of years in VR were with a 1060 - I noticed a significant increase in performance when I installed a 1080 about 4 years ago. The 3070ti was also a good step up, though fitting it inside my PC case involved cutting out some HDD bays and much pondering over wire routing 😅 Good luck with your 3090ti 👍 Hypothetically, I’ll not be submitting any error reports regarding (waving hands) general performance issues in the future, I only put in reports about specific reproducible bugs. If games don’t run well I either drop the settings or (eventually) open my wallet 😁

Complaining about performance in Odyssey is fine - there’s plenty of it on the forums after all! Pinging one of the CMs though just wastes their time when it’s something like your suggestion from Saturday. At best I can only imagine a massive eye-roll from them, at worst it may sour their opinion of VR users just a little bit more. Going by past responses from Sally regarding CMDRs problems, they’d ask for a link to an issue report if your post actually got a reply.
 

Esare Kranse

E
This is the issue Report I submitted. There are many related and similar issues that do not come up in the search when you submit an issue. But I trawled through the 1000 active issues the other day, and there are many matching issues with excessive GPU stress during parts of gameplay that should not be loading the GPU, such as boarding a ship (in the dark!), Using any Game menu, Using the cockpit menus, etc.

The issue is not the FPS drop, but the fact it is additive and unrecoverable. This is a glaring symptom of code that is dropping threads and memory handles ungracefully, leaving them active and shedding resources.
 

Arioch

Arioch
Esare Kranse said:
This is the issue Report I submitted. There are many related and similar issues that do not come up in the search when you submit an issue. But I trawled through the 1000 active issues the other day, and there are many matching issues with excessive GPU stress during parts of gameplay that should not be loading the GPU, such as boarding a ship (in the dark!), Using any Game menu, Using the cockpit menus, etc.

The issue is not the FPS drop, but the fact it is additive and unrecoverable. This is a glaring symptom of code that is dropping threads and memory handles ungracefully, leaving them active and shedding resources.
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If an issue report gets “Duplicated” status then there should be a pink box at the top of the report from QA showing a link to what it has duplicated - very occasionally they don’t, as in this case.

As far as I am aware if an issue is marked as a duplicate then there is a confirmed and acknowledged report about the problem already, in which case FDev are already aware of the bug.

Your report doesn’t seem to mention excessive GPU stressing, so perhaps it was thought to be similar to either https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/48884 or https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/36142 ?
 

Marziano Inside

Marziano Inside
@Arioch i've done some light experimenting. If you switch between VR runtimes (it is correct to call them runtimes? Dunno) you notice different problems. For instance, in SteamVR i don't have the flicker shadow problem (they just disappear). If i switch to OculusVR i can see the shadows flickering when docked inside a station or when i fly towards them (i still have to test on planet surface). Do you think it will be beneficial to specify the VR runtime used, in our reports?
 

Arioch

Arioch
Marziano Inside said:
@Arioch i've done some light experimenting. If you switch between VR runtimes (it is correct to call them runtimes? Dunno) you notice different problems. For instance, in SteamVR i don't have the flicker shadow problem (they just disappear). If i switch to OculusVR i can see the shadows flickering when docked inside a station or when i fly towards them (i still have to test on planet surface). Do you think it will be beneficial to specify the VR runtime used, in our reports?
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That’s a very good find - nice one 👍 Unfortunately it seems it’s a bit of a Hobson’s Choice when it comes to VR shadows 😅

I’m using the Frontier launcher version of the game with my Quest 2 so I assume I’m just using the Oculus runtime - checking the OpenVR runtime isn’t something I can do, as far as I’m aware.

Any SteamVR CMDRs want chime in? It’d be cool if we can get a confirmation on Marziano Inside’s testing.

(In one game I have on Steam, VTOL VR, I get terrible stuttering image in Oculus mode when using particular external camera views but not when I launch the game in SteamVR mode - so perhaps EDO is suffering from something similar?)
 

JR250

J
Hello all. How do I switch VR runtimes? I have flat screen ED or ED using SteamVR from the Steam launcher. I'd love to bypass SteamVR and use the Oculus API directly to see if that improves anything.

This is a bit OT so a link to where I can get more info on this would be great. Thanks.
 

Esare Kranse

E
you can run elite directly from the oculus link library, but it can be hit and miss if it'll work, it also thinks your machine is still running it after you quit the launcher, until you reboot everything.

Steam VR or Oculus Library doesn't make any difference on the issues I see.

Had an experiment today, the default setting on Super sampling is 1.25, with HMD at 1.0 which gives me a framerate of 18 in clear space and 8 in stations (an unrecoverable 3 in station menus!)

dropping Super-sampling to 1.0 and cranking HMD quality to 2.0 give me 36 FPS in open space and 18 in stations, dropping to 8 in any menu. Going to FSS now cranks up to 72 FPS. oddly this is happening with FPS limited to 30!

I've also noted it's different depending on the ship, but not in an expected way. the FDL is the worst, followed by the Cutter, Then the Conda, and my ASP Explorer with it's panoramic view is the most stable.
 

Marziano Inside

Marziano Inside
jojon said:
Do you play with exactly the same resolution in both cases? (I'm thinking LOD biases may be recalculated for different resolutions.)
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Yep, Elite settings are not changed: i'm using EDLaunch.exe with the /VR parameter on tail for both VR runtimes. To switch i simply change the default vr runtime from the respective VR Apps (SteamVR and Oculus App). If i set SteamVR as default, when i launch via EDLaunch.exe, Elite starts using SteamVR, else, setting Oculus as default starts using Oculus runtime. Oculus performs much better on my system, but the flickering makes me prefer Steam. I still have to see how shadows are behaving on planet surface, using Oculus runtime. I need to check if they disappear leaving only the CMDR chair projecting a shadow, like it's happening under SteamVR. Will do tonight, i hope
 
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