Odyssey - what's the point?

[Drelthar]

Well since your thread's point is that EDO is too detached from the rest of the game, this comment seems quite contradictory, the issue now is that the exobiology loop also requires flying the ship? So the EDO gameplay should blend into the rest of the game, or not?

If there is something in EDO that is quite blended into the rest of the game is the exo-biology loop.

1 - Use the FSS from your ship in space to locate planets with biological signals.

2 - Fly your ship into those planets and use the DSS probes to generate the blue map.

3 - Filter the map to which type of signals you wish to look for and fly down to the surface.

4 - Either fly your ship at low altitude to look for stuff, or use the SRV. I prefer to use the ship, it usually takes about 20 seconds tops to spot the first plant pockets flying low over the surface. Once you pick a plant pocket to land / stop, you can usually already see more pockets of planets in the distance. I would prefer it was a bit more difficult to find, but at least it's better than the old quest marker arrows "special things exactly here!" we had before. The new system also spreads the POIs much more naturally across the entire planet, instead of having empty 1:1 planets with only a handful of small places with POIs.

5 - Disembark on foot or with SRV, scan the first sample. Either go on foot, or use the SRV, or use the ship to move to other pockets, depending on distance and how many pockets you can see from your location. If I can see the pockets I use the SRV, else I take the ship.

6 - After collecting all the samples (or scanning additional signals), run / drive back to the ship, fly back to a port, and deliver the samples.

Yes, exobiology is the most integrated part of the expansion, now if they could finish that off by making it so you can take atmospheric data (ground material) and get missions to sample stuff from the ship mission board, and gain ship materials while scanning planets, and gathering biological -and- "core samples" (perhaps using a new SRV) and rename it exo researcher (or a better name...), And taking the time to design mini games that fit contextually to the activities, while not making you feel like your playing a mobile game, they'd be getting there.

 

[Nagnu]

Yes, exobiology is the most integrated part of the expansion, now if they could finish that off by making it so you can take atmospheric data (ground material) and get missions to sample stuff from the ship mission board, and gain ship materials while scanning planets, and gathering biological -and- "core samples" (perhaps using a new SRV) and rename it exo researcher (or a better name...), And taking the time to design mini games that fit contextually to the activities, while not making you feel like your playing a mobile game, they'd be getting there.

The scanning also being more than scan, move x distance arbitrarily, repeat is a good place to make the loop a bit more rich. The scanner being able to embellish detail like "oh this things means you should go in this direction" or "there is an anomaly over here because of ___ reason, get a sample". It could also be built in to narrative.

At the moment it is just a nakedly arbitrary way to slow the gameplay loop and provides no real information (i.e., when you turn in the data you just get a quick blurb about the plant name and thats it, nothing to indicate what was learned by taking three samples x distance apart).

 

[askavir]

Yes, exobiology is the most integrated part of the expansion, now if they could finish that off by making it so you can take atmospheric data (ground material) and get missions to sample stuff from the ship mission board, and gain ship materials while scanning planets, and gathering biological -and- "core samples" (perhaps using a new SRV) and rename it exo researcher (or a better name...), And taking the time to design mini games that fit contextually to the activities, while not making you feel like your playing a mobile game, they'd be getting there.

Moar things > less things.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

You mean things that are grating? I do have a list for that. Over the years, I have the distinct impression they see all the options, and they implement the least enjoyable one. Why? It's possible it keeps more people engaged, and hopeful. Im not even kidding. But I'd say it only seems like there's more of that in EDO, since EDO has more stuff to do. But yeah, some things I didn't like about EDH are still in EDO, and they seem like simple things to fix. I, for one, liked the bio scanner as it was, but was excited they may change it after so many requests. Then they remove it, instead of just trying something different. Missed oppurtunity, among others.

That mini-game had a strong whiff of something they only came up just prior to the Alpha - dumped it into the game and hoped for the best. Didn't go down well with the players so plan B was to just take out the interaction with it (i.e. there was no plan B).

I didn't actually mind the principle even though it didn't really gel with the underlying activity, but the lag combined with the narrow window to complete it made it more difficult and tedious than it had to be, and I was often getting very frustrated because not only did I miss the mark but it punished you for doing so by going "back" one step - the revised version was already better but I guess at that stage enough people hated it for FDev to conclude it can't stay.

A logic mini-game would've made a lot more sense, both in terms of the activity (science) and the target audience (exploration isn't a twitch gameplay activity) but FDev couldn't come up with it, be it due to lack of imagination, time, or both.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Well since your thread's point is that EDO is too detached from the rest of the game, this comment seems quite contradictory, the issue now is that the exobiology loop also requires flying the ship? So the EDO gameplay should blend into the rest of the game, or not?

If there is something in EDO that is quite blended into the rest of the game is the exo-biology loop.

1 - Use the FSS from your ship in space to locate planets with biological signals.

2 - Fly your ship into those planets and use the DSS probes to generate the blue map.

3 - Filter the map to which type of signals you wish to look for and fly down to the surface.

4 - Either fly your ship at low altitude to look for stuff, or use the SRV. I prefer to use the ship, it usually takes about 20 seconds tops to spot the first plant pockets flying low over the surface. Once you pick a plant pocket to land / stop, you can usually already see more pockets of planets in the distance. I would prefer it was a bit more difficult to find, but at least it's better than the old quest marker arrows "special things exactly here!" we had before. The new system also spreads the POIs much more naturally across the entire planet, instead of having empty 1:1 planets with only a handful of small places with POIs.

5 - Disembark on foot or with SRV, scan the first sample. Either go on foot, or use the SRV, or use the ship to move to other pockets, depending on distance and how many pockets you can see from your location. If I can see the pockets I use the SRV, else I take the ship.

6 - After collecting all the samples (or scanning additional signals), run / drive back to the ship, fly back to a port, and deliver the samples.

Yes and no.

I think FDev's idea of the exo loop was for us to walk from one plant sample to the next, without constantly switching between SRV/ship and on-foot (certaintly to a lesser extent), but the way it certainly turned out for me when trying it was I

1) took my SRV to get sample A,
2) stop at field 1, get out for a few seconds, hold scanner button to take sample 1,
3) back into SRV, drive until I find field 2 (because taking 2 samples from the same field seems difficult given they're usually not large enough, or rather, the distance requirement between them is too far imo)
4) quickly get out of the SRV to take sample 2,
5) repeat for sample 3.

Then I do the same thing with species B, which I had to ignore various fields I drove past during the above because the game won't let me take samples concurrently for reasons only known to the designer at FDev who came up with this stupid idea, and who clearly never actually tried playing it themselves to see if it's fun in the medium to long term.

For bacteria, because those seem to be more spread out and more difficult to spot on foot/in the SRV, you're better off taking the ship and doing what Frillop described. But you spend more time flying, trying to land, disembark, taking off and flying again than actually being on-foot doing on-footy things. Walk from ship/SRV, hold trigger, walk back. That's all there is to it.

You're right that the synergies between EDH & EDO are the best for exploration, I've said this myself before, but the gameplay loop itself is still extremely light touch.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yes and no.

I think FDev's idea of the exo loop was for us to walk from one plant sample to the next, without constantly switching between SRV/ship and on-foot (certaintly to a lesser extent), but the way it certainly turned out for me when trying it was I

1) took my SRV to get sample A,
2) stop at field 1, get out for a few seconds, hold scanner button to take sample 1,
3) back into SRV, drive until I find field 2 (because taking 2 samples from the same field seems difficult given they're usually not large enough, or rather, the distance requirement between them is too far imo)
4) quickly get out of the SRV to take sample 2,
5) repeat for sample 3.

Then I do the same thing with species B, which I had to ignore various fields I drove past during the above because the game won't let me take samples concurrently for reasons only known to the designer at FDev who came up with this stupid idea, and who clearly never actually tried playing it themselves to see if it's fun in the medium to long term.

For bacteria, because those seem to be more spread out and more difficult to spot on foot/in the SRV, you're better off taking the ship and doing what Frillop described. But you spend more time flying, trying to land, disembark, taking off and flying again than actually being on-foot doing on-footy things. Walk from ship/SRV, hold trigger, walk back. That's all there is to it.

You're right that the synergies between EDH & EDO are the best for exploration, I've said this myself before, but the gameplay loop itself is still extremely light touch.

I view exploration as a disease and yet even I could design a gameloop that keeps your soul intact.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I view exploration as a disease and yet even I could design a gameloop that keeps your soul intact.

As a non-anorak when it comes to exploration, I had high hopes getting more into it, in fact I was planning to do this with my alt CMDR (Horizons only) simply to check out the new planet tech while my main CMDR stays for the bubble gameplay stuff.

Doesn't look like this is going to happen now, as staying in the bubble gives plenty of opportunities for light sightseeing in quick bouts without needing to travel out into the middle of nowhere - I doubt there's anything to discover that far out, maybe beyond a particularly rare type of plant, and that's certainly not sufficient for me to make the effort to get there - just as it is for existing bio signals in Horizons. Shame.

 

[askavir]

Then I do the same thing with species B, which I had to ignore various fields I drove past during the above because the game won't let me take samples concurrently for reasons only known to the designer at FDev who came up with this stupid idea, and who clearly never actually tried playing it themselves to see if it's fun in the medium to long term.

I have to agree with you there, it's incredibly frustrating to land at a field with 2 or 3 different plant species and having to leave some behind because we can only scan one a t time for the full cycle.

Regarding the synergies between ship, srv and foot, I like having to use all (well the srv not every time, but most). If I imagine myself exploring an alien planet I would likely fly a lot to locate interesting regions, then land use some kind of rover within that region to travel bwteeen places of interest and disembark on foot to inspect / analyze / collect stuff, which is kind of what actually happens in EDO when doing the plant loop (or the salvage loops).

I would indeed like to spend more time outside the SRV and be able to collect stuff etc instead of just scan during exobiology, in this regard I think the new salvage sites (which are the other good example of EDO being well integrated int othe rest of the game btw) are better balanced in what regards to time spent on foot / srv / ship.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I have to agree with you there, it's incredibly frustrating to land at a field with 2 or 3 different plant species and having to leave some behind because we can only scan one a t time for the full cycle.

Regarding the synergies between ship, srv and foot, I like having to use all (well the srv not every time, but most). If I imagine myself exploring an alien planet I would likely fly a lot to locate interesting regions, then land use some kind of rover within that region to travel bwteeen places of interest and disembark on foot to inspect / analyze / collect stuff, which is kind of what actually happens in EDO when doing the plant loop (or the salvage loops).

I would indeed like to spend more time outside the SRV and be able to collect stuff etc instead of just scan during exobiology, in this regard I think the new salvage sites (which are the other good example of EDO being well integrated int othe rest of the game btw) are better balanced in what regards to time spent on foot / srv / ship.

Yes, the time spent outside your vehicles needs to be increased via meaningful gameplay - salvaging is actually a good example as that takes just long enough (cutting open containers and looting bits and bobs, sometimes fighting NPCs). There's plenty of ideas floating around (why is exploration not part of the mission board for example) it's quite amazing that FDev haven't thought about these things.

I do reckon it was an afterthought to keep the anoraks happy (didn't work) as the rest of EDO is quite combat focused, and I also think they came up with the entire exo stuff towards the end of the development phase, and simply ran out of time to flesh it out further (I would like to think that at least, the alternative would be more depressing).

 

[Darkfyre99]

Elite Feet gameplay loop where you spend most of the time flying your ship using eyeball mk1 because of inadequate on-foot gameplay mechanics.

Classic.

Odyssey gameplay loop where you spend some time flying your ship using the eyeball mk1, in VR in my case, because Frontier finally ditched the equivalent of bright neon sign saying "Look here!" in favor of a proper (IMO) exploration mechanic that gives just enough information for hints, without spoiling the mystery completely.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yes and no.

I think FDev's idea of the exo loop was for us to walk from one plant sample to the next, without constantly switching between SRV/ship and on-foot (certaintly to a lesser extent), but the way it certainly turned out for me when trying it was I

1) took my SRV to get sample A,
2) stop at field 1, get out for a few seconds, hold scanner button to take sample 1,
3) back into SRV, drive until I find field 2 (because taking 2 samples from the same field seems difficult given they're usually not large enough, or rather, the distance requirement between them is too far imo)
4) quickly get out of the SRV to take sample 2,
5) repeat for sample 3.

Then I do the same thing with species B, which I had to ignore various fields I drove past during the above because the game won't let me take samples concurrently for reasons only known to the designer at FDev who came up with this stupid idea, and who clearly never actually tried playing it themselves to see if it's fun in the medium to long term.

For bacteria, because those seem to be more spread out and more difficult to spot on foot/in the SRV, you're better off taking the ship and doing what Frillop described. But you spend more time flying, trying to land, disembark, taking off and flying again than actually being on-foot doing on-footy things. Walk from ship/SRV, hold trigger, walk back. That's all there is to it.

You're right that the synergies between EDH & EDO are the best for exploration, I've said this myself before, but the gameplay loop itself is still extremely light touch.

I haven't even done any exobiology and just reading this made me frustrated.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I haven't even done any exobiology and just reading this made me frustrated.

I haven't even mentioned how they made the exo scanner completely useless, because of a combination of a) fields of plants being too small to allow for getting another sample even at the opposing edges of one, b) the radius of the scanner being too small and c) the distance between valid samples being too large (last time I checked I had to put about 500m between each - the scanner seems to only cover 50-100m or so). I seem to remember that I was able to take more than 1 sample from a single field during the Alpha, although performance was even worse than it is now, seems they simply adjusted field sizes to address that.

It's quite tedious busywork just for the sake of it, the tired old term MVP springs to mind here once more for sure.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Odyssey gameplay loop where you spend some time flying your ship using the eyeball mk1, in VR in my case, because Frontier finally ditched the equivalent of bright neon sign saying "Look here!" in favor of a proper (IMO) exploration mechanic that gives just enough information for hints, without spoiling the mystery completely.

Not at all - I like the heat map and much prefer it over the signal source approach of Horizons. The problem is (as I've explained in my following posts from the one you quoted) that the time spent on-foot is minimal - in a DLC that has that as its main feature.

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

Not at all - I like the heat map and much prefer it over the signal source approach of Horizons. The problem is (as I've explained in my following posts from the one you quoted) that the time spent on-foot is minimal - in a DLC that has that as its main feature.

try climbing a mountain last night I went through 2 power cells trying to get to the top

 

[Darkfyre99]

Not at all - I like the heat map and much prefer it over the signal source approach of Horizons. The problem is (as I've explained in my following posts from the one you quoted) that the time spent on-foot is minimal - in a DLC that has that as its main feature.

And IMO, the other main feature is the tenuous atmosphere planetary tech. I would've bought Odyssey for my alt account for that alone. That I'm actually enjoying the on-foot missions aspect of Odyssey is icing on the cake.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I haven't even done any exobiology and just reading this made me frustrated.

It's why I'm not in a hurry to find an Artemis suit for my main account, who's exploring her way back to the Bubble from Colonia. Unless something changes, I'll probably treat biological samples the same way I treat "geological samples" in my SRV: the joy is in the finding, not the interacting.

 

[danteuk]

Time investment vs reward is completely out of whack compared to Horizons, even though (and also because) EDO gameplay loops are meatier now - and yet they feel shallow mini-games bolted onto the main game, with no real synergies between EDH & EDO.

I completely agree.
Basically EDO has three things to do:
On foot missions - I've done each one - and despite what the white knights tell me I've not seen any real variation in mission from one type of base to another. Sure the layout is different and some of the building as different, but missions play out the same.
Exo-biology - Damn this boring and frustrating - in the future we can only carry one scanner container at a time ? so we have to scan one bio object at a time from 3 different locations ? really ? this makes no sense at all, I did a couple of times and it was not fun game play at all.
Taking nice screenshots of sunrise/sets - this is nice if you find a good planet and a good location.

On foot engineers do not interest me at all - grind mats to upgrade suits and weapons just so we can grind mats easier ? really ? that's it. I don't see a point. There is no real end game or reward at the end of all that grind (I don't play for bragging rights about my G5 gear!)

Maybe at some point in the future - maybe when the Beta ends and real release happens ( for Consoles too ) then FDev will add in something that actually makes having G5 leavel gear a requirement.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

And IMO, the other main feature is the tenuous atmosphere planetary tech. I would've bought Odyssey for my alt account for that alone. That I'm actually enjoying the on-foot missions aspect of Odyssey is icing on the cake.

Well - I actually saw the new planet tech as the main reason for me buying into EDO; I was never really that eager on Elite Feet despite remaining open minded about it (after all, my view was that vehicle only based gameplay was fine and its core draw - much like I don't feel the need to have on-foot gameplay in a driving or flight sim).

But given the current state of the new planet tech - it requires a lot of further work to make me feel as immersed as I do in Horizons, simply because it's not a glitchy mess that doesn't even run all that well.

So for me, in the end it's the settlements that are the current highlight of EDO, even though they could be so much more than what they are right now.

As for getting EDO for my alt, I wasn't a fan of spending the 40 bucks twice just because FDev refuses to give us secondary CMDR slots, but now after seeing the final product I'm 100% certain that won't ever happen, even if there's a sale.

 

[danteuk]

I personally begged Frontier to model legs after Subnautica & Space Engineers gameplay (at least regarding ship maintenance and repairs) rather than Call Of Duty, but all the game studios have Fortnite envy, so Odyssey is what we got.

Call of Duty I think of as more of an on-rails story driven FPS ( but then I've only played the first 3 or 4 versions from back in the day ).

Odyssey, specially the on-foot conflict zones feels like a Unreal Tournament 2003 - except with worse graphics, worse frame rates, only one type of enemy, only one game mode, only one style of map/environment, only a handful of weapons. ( it's actually more limiting the free magazine give away version of UT 2003 from almost 20 years ago ) That 'on-foot conflict zones' content feels like a free fan made add-on burdened by all the limitations main games limited scope.

 

[CMDR-ss47ply]

First thing I did when it went live was I returned from the black cashed in bought the Artimas suit headed out to the black again my feet were first all over the place