On-foot combat and AI logic SUGGESTIONS & BUGS (cloaking, thermal vision ..etc)

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Suggestions to make on-foot experience better

1. We need non-lethal weapons and takedown options. So if you're doing a mission that doesn't allow casualities, at least you should be able to take down staff and guards by using non lethal ways.
2. Ability to change clothes / appearence to blend in with settlement staff.
3. Ability to make "noise" to attract guards / staff. Such as kicking or knocking on walls or floors and also ability to throw stuff, like picked up assets or goods, which should act differently when thrown, metal items should make lot of racket, fragile things should break ..etc.
4. NPC guards should use non-lethal force only if you've only commited small crimes (such as stealing, resisting scans..etc). They should have tazers, flashbangs, net guns (shoots net that immobilizes you) ..etc. Ofcourse this should vary based on settlement security and your crime, if you steal something important or shoot someone, then they should use lethal force. Also in military settlements they should mostly resort to lethal force.
5. Headshots from any weapon should instantly kill if target has no shields and no helmet (like inside settlements).
6. Stealth camoflage / cloaking mod for suits that would replace shields with stealth and it would render you 99% invisible and you'd be able to avoid any and all detection, unless you pretty much bump into someone. Shooting would temporarily make you 50% visible.
7. Thermal vision mod for suits and weapon scopes (would also be able to see stealth camoflage)
8. Thermal camoflage mod for suits - This actually exists in real life already, it would simply match your suit's outer temperature with ambient, so you'd be invisible to thermal vision. You should be able to mix this mod with either shield or stealth, but it would also take more power (like having 2 shields on).
9. Meta-alloy armor mod for dominator suit only - kind of a thing I liked from Deus Ex. Armor mod that would replace shields with nearly indestructible armor. It would take about 4-5 times less power than shields require and you'd be able to toggle it on/off with same button as shield, BUT it would take 2-3 seconds to activate and when active, it would disable sprint and jetpack jump. While active, this armor should be indestructible by normal weapons, only guardian and AX weapons should be able to damage it and it should also re-generate (like shields). However you'd still be vulnerable to fall damage and heat (if someone shoots you a lot with thermal weapons, you'd start taking heat damage - armor doesn't take damage, but your health would go down).
10. Thermal effeciency suit mod (not sure if it already exists, don't think i've seen it) - This mod would make you pretty much immune to heat, for example you'd be able to walk over volcanos and it would go well with meta-alloy armor, so you wouldn't be vulnerable to thermal attacks anymore.
11. Force gun (non-lethal). Quite simple, this gun would be able to throw stuff and people around with incredible force. You should be able to change between 3 levels and each level has ability to charge it. So you'd have total of about 9 different force options, where 1 is barely enough to move small objects and 9 would be enough to throw SRV around and break through small doors. When used on right setting, it would also be good way to knock enemies unconcious by throwing them against walls.


BUGS and FIXES
I know lot of people have already made noise about some on-foot bugs, but here are my complaints about on-foot issues:

Recently I've been grinding for some suit and weapon upgrades, which means doing lot of on-foot missions.
Along the way I've noticed a lot of big problems that make it very frustrating, annoying and most of all, LAME! It lacks realism, which is bad.
Here's my list of complaints and suggestions on how to fix them:

1. Security scans by guards are made to annoy you. If you have nothing illegal on you, then guards don't really care, they scan you maybe like 10% of the time, but as soon as you have something illegal on you, then 90% of the time you get scanned. You can't take 1 step without being scanned. For example I had nothing illegal on me, I walked around for ages and nobody cared. I was using real life tactics and logic, thinking that if guard scans me and finds nothing, they won't instantly scan me again. So I tried to trigger her scan by being in her way near my objective, finally she scans me and found nothing. When she turned around and walked further, I grabbed the stuff I was suppose to steal and was about to walk out the door, she turns around, sees only climpse of me and instantly wants to scan me .. like what the F?

HOW TO FIX - security scans should be consistent. High security settlements should have higher scan rates, while Low security settlements should have less scans. It's same as in real life, if it's some low security places, then nobody really cares. If you do something suspicous, like jump around, open lockers ..etc then someone might come to you and scan you for suspicious behavior, but in high security places, you'll always get scanned when going in/out of places. Like if you enter a new area, then security guard should always scan you and same when you leave, which would prevent one from smuggling illegal goods (which is how it works in real life too). But if security guard scans you once, then you don't get scanned again, unless you go into new area or leave that area OR if you trigger some suspicious behavior (bump into others, jump around, sprint ..etc)

2. DON'T STAND SO CLOSE! Why do NPCs constantly whine about "don't stand so close"? Then it just turns into a staring contest, I was just standing in hallway, looking out the window, waiting for NPC to pass so I can complete my objective, but instead he just walks up to me "do you have to stand so close?" and then just stands and stares at me for 5 minutes .. and if it's security guard, then they're like "TRY THAT AGAIN!" .. like TRY WHAT?? What did I do? I wasn't even moving, I was just looking out the window, they crawl up my and then whine that I'm too close? What is this programming? I haven't tried, but I feel like it might trigger lethal action if you stand close to security for too long?!

HOW TO FIX - NPCs shouldn't pay attention to you if you just walk past them or if you're standing and minding your own business. They might say hi or something like this, but not turn it into a staring contest. Specially when it comes to security guards, why do they have to threaten you for just standing and looking out the window?


3. I took one sabotage mission, where you had to insert something into catalyst container. Like Solid Snake, I sneak my way into the base, disable alarms and open the container, but it takes like 2 minutes to open, so like a Predator I jump on top of a ceiling light and sit there, waiting until it opens, but one scientist keeps itching around it, so as soon as it opened .. he goes and instantly closes it... 2 minutes wasted ... so I tried again, with same results.. HOW are you suppose to do this mission then? It also says that you're not allowed to injure staff.. so only thing I could think of, is that as soon as it was about to open, I walked up to it, but that resulted in instant agro by all the scientists in the room, WHY? WHAT DID I DO???
I had no other choice than to turn my shields on, throw the damn thing in there, close it and run like wind! ... have devs even tested missions like this? They're literally impossible to do without being attacked and getting bounty on you. In some cases you have small window to put the stuff there without being detected, but in some cases someone is always standing right next to it and you have no time to do it without being attacked.

HOW TO FIX - If you have cloned security profile, then you should be allowed to do what anyone in the area is allowed to do. You should only be detected as hostile when scanned by security guard.
Additionally you could add static security scanners, that would detect cloned profiles if it gets used twice in different places (like in real life), so if NPC you cloned, walks past a security scanner on other side of the base around the time you do, then security guards would be alarmed of both places, so they would rush to investigate a potential cloned profile.
Also could add possibility to disguise yourself as civilian who works in settlement (take clothes from lockers), which would mean guards and staff doesn't pay attention to you, unless you do somehing suspicous (like sprint, jump, steal, bump into others..etc).

4. Restricted areas - These are just plain nonsense. HOW would one know if someone has permission to be there or not? I mean what exactly is "restricted area"? Why are ALL NPCs allowed to be there, why don't they agro on eachother? How do they know who is allowed and who isn't? I would understand that some small areas (like reactor room) are only ran by like 1-2 people, so they would know eachother by face and would know if someone is tresspassing, but if it's a large facility and you clone a security profile and walk in there like you belong, how do all the NPCs instantly know you're not suppose to be there? Even if you have your back turned, do they sniff eachothers farts and know that yours smells different? HOW DO THEY INSTANTLY KNOW YOU'RE TRESSPASSING IF YOU HAVE YOUR BACK TURNED??
Sometimes you get a warning, they're like "you're not suppose to be in here", but still, HOW DO THEY KNOW? What is this magic that they use to instantly detect who is allowed and who isn't?
If you clone security profile that gives you access to that area, why is it still restricted?

HOW TO FIX - Restricted areas should be based on security profiles and/or clothing. Take a trick out of Metal Gear Solid's book. So if you get right clothing and security profile, then you can walk in restricted areas without being harassed (unless you draw attention to yourself by sprinting, jumping ..etc). Also random technicians and scientists shouldn't be able to tell if you're tresspassing or not (unless some small area / building), they should occasionally get suspicious and call in the guard to scan you, but they shouldn't just attack you on sight.

5. Instant bounty when you kill someone - This is very unrealistic and lame. How does universe magically know that you murdered someone if you do it in area with nobody to witness it? Sure they might hear the shots, but if you leave the area quick enough, how would they know you did it? I find it very lame. I was in some covert operation, had some technicians agro on me beacuse "restricted area" and I had to defend myself, I killed both of them without any alarms going off or without guards coming down, but I still got instant bounty. Rest of the staff wasn't even hostile / aware, but they still somehow knew I did it. That's immersion breaker.

HOW TO FIX - You should not get instant bounty / fine when doing something illegal, if someone notices you do something illegal, they should either run for the alarm button (those would have to be added) or they'd have to take out their "radio" and call for help. I've noticed assets called "scrambler", so you could also have a scrambler device, which you can use to scramble their signal and this would give you time to take them out (lethal or non-lethal). If you take someone out without being noticed by others, then you shouldn't get any bounty on you.
Additionally, I assume in year 3000+ everyone has some personal logger on them, so using scrambler would be necessary or they send out the signal and identify you as attacker, unless you change your appearence. Which also means, you should have ability to scramble their loggers and take someone out without getting bounty on you.

6. Shooting in no fire zone instantly gains you fine / bounty, again, how does everyone magically know it was you? If there are no cameras or people around, how would one know it was you?

HOW TO FIX - very simple, when shooting in areas where there's no surveillance, you should not gain any fines or bounty, instead it should only alert nearby NPCs to come and investigate. If you're still in the area, then it would trigger immediate security scan and it would reveal that you have recently fired your gun, in which case you'd get a fine (not lethal response).
Additionally there could be a engineer weapon mod "clean history" or something like that, which would always pass the scans. So if you shoot and guard comes to scan you, they would see that your weapon haven't been fired, which means they would go look for someone else. So this mod could be useful for assassination missions.

I hope my ideas will be implanted in future, if I'd have to choose top 3 things to be added / changed:
1. Stealth camo / cloaking mod
2. Meta-alloy armor mod
3. Thermal vision
 
Bugs and fixes (none of them are...)
1. Security scans are normal.
Learn to live with them and be grateful you are not shot on sight. That's what i would do if i've seen someone armed to the teeth and also having an arc cutter in my settlement.

2. Meh. Private space. Respect theirs.

3. Sabotage missions can be done. You need to time your actions perfectly. Or engage shields and simply do it while they agro and shoot at you.
Your choice.

4. Restricted areas.
You are a visitor in that settlement. Why do you think you have to be allowed everywhere?
Else, see 1.

5. It's normal. Same thing happens in space. The ship systems (in space) or the Suit systems (on foot) are reporting the crimes.
it's the year 3307 not 1307.

6. See above. And remember the messages you get from ATC when you close to an Engineer base. "Your arrival has been logged"
Again, it's 3307 not 1307
 
I was using real life tactics and logic,
Your first mistake, ED do not use logic at all, and yes the game check your stats before it decide the AI behavior.


It's normal. Same thing happens in space. The ship systems (in space) or the Suit systems (on foot) are reporting the crimes.
it's the year 3307 not 1307.
In space we can use silent running we do not have this option, there should be a way to hack the system in our suit.
 
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4. Restricted areas - These are just plain nonsense. HOW would one know if someone has permission to be there or not?

I mean like NFC dongle for instance? Or Wifi staff badges. Face recognition technology FTW? The list is endless. You aren't a staff member at the base, you don't have passes unless you steal one, your face isn't logged into the system as a staff member. That the best you can do?
 
1. Security scans are normal.
Learn to live with them and be grateful you are not shot on sight. That's what i would do if i've seen someone armed to the teeth and also having an arc cutter in my settlement.
I didn't say anything about arc cutter and guns, you can go without any guns and have flight suit, results are same. There's nothing normal about scans. it's quite clear that devs have designed it to be annoying and not realistic. Just like cheating AI ships, that are capable of following you across half the universe regardless that they have 20ly jump range vs my 70+ and they are able to jump out of supercruise right next to station and still take shots at you before they get shot by station. with weak ship you'll be dead before authorities even realize .. and shooting back gives you bounty for firing in no fire zone. on-foot is no different.


I mean like NFC dongle for instance? Or Wifi staff badges. Face recognition technology FTW? The list is endless. You aren't a staff member at the base, you don't have passes unless you steal one, your face isn't logged into the system as a staff member. That the best you can do?
Sure, you can see my face thru black visor or by looking at my pooper. cloning a security profile, will bypass all authorization checks. very good logic, any other bright ideas? that the best you can do?



It's funny tho, how people only catch on the negative, what about all of my awesome ideas about stealth and meta-alloy armor? it's like you only have eyes for negative ... no wonder you're such a sour lemon.

NOTE - i'm no longer following this topic, because as always, some sour kids have to ruin the topic with blame and nonsense. My ideas are for devs, if you're not a dev, don't bother replying. bye sour kids. keep scrubbing at eachother. I posted my amazing ideas and suggestions for devs to see, not so that you can scrub all day long about things you don't understand.
 
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what about all of my awesome ideas about stealth and meta-alloy armor?

I refrained from comments on your ideas, but if you insist... nope, your ideas are not awesome at all, sorry 🤷‍♂️

It lacks realism

Ofc.
You go in an airport and pull out a gun... How many seconds you'd still be standing?

Now, dont get me wrong. There are a lot of inconsistencies in on-foot settlement game play. But all of them stem from gameplay reasons.
And if not for those inconsistencies, the only mission you'd be able to do in a settlement would be to deliver or fetch some goods (legal goods) - or to massacre the entire settlement... from orbit
Else no illegalities could be done in a settlement that has 20 people - all knowing each other - and out of those 20 people, 10 are guards.
And all the features of an era that has space travel and instant crime reporting.

Someone crouching on my roof? Shot dead in an instance.
Someone staring at a restricted area (like my PWR station)? Shot dead in an instance.
Someone disembarking in my settlement ( which by the way is listed as No Weapons Zone) and carrying weapons or arc cutters? - shot dead.
 
Sure, you can see my face thru black visor or by looking at my pooper. cloning a security profile, will bypass all authorization checks. very good logic, any other bright ideas? that the best you can do?

No I can do better.

Remember this bit in the post you just quoted?

you don't have passes unless you steal one

You have stolen a pass, congratulatons for understanding how the system works, but of course it's in your way so you want to remove it and just be allowed in anywhere because........?
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
NOTE - i'm no longer following this topic, because as always, some sour kids have to ruin the topic with blame and nonsense. My ideas are for devs, if you're not a dev, don't bother replying. bye sour kids. keep scrubbing at eachother. I posted my amazing ideas and suggestions for devs to see, not so that you can scrub all day long about things you don't understand.

No - you cannot prevent forum users from using the forum.
Seeing as you are no longer interested in the thread it will be closed.
 
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