Only one light source at a time?

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S3B4ST13N

S
Proprietary rights in relation to a trademark may be established through actual use in the marketplace, or through registration of the mark with the trademarks office (or "trademarks registry") of a particular jurisdiction.

Meaning Frontier do not have to trademark it at a trademark office if it has been established through actual use in the market. Considering it's been in use since 2004 (the engine that is), this requirement has been met. COBRA is more than an engine, it's a set of in-house tools and techniques that likely make it really difficult to trademark with an office; easier to use them in one's every day life during the process of product development, and thereby instil trademark on said feature-set; that is, COBRA and the COBRA engine.
 
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Stachel

Banned
Stachel
CMDR S. Russell said:
COBRA duly trademarked.
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You apparently have no clue what a trademark *filing* is.

PS "Soon (TM)" isn't a filed trademark either.

CMDR S. Russell said:
Considering it's been in use since 2004
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So you claim. Yet still you've been able to provide no evidence of this. Sorry, but it just looks as if you're making this up.

Shadowdancer said:
I can't seem to find a registered trademark for "Cobra" by FD in either UK, EU, or US databases
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That's because it doesn't exist. The Cobra trademark filing is in the same imaginary place as the building Frontier just bought and the ED 10-year plan.
 
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Shadowdancer

Shadowdancer
Using a name uncontested for a time makes claims against you contestable to a degree, but it does not give you the same protection as a proper registration. I find it weird that Frontier would go ahead and ® a fictitious alien species and a niche greeting phrase, but not the name of something that's supposed to be part of their core IP and just ™ that.
 
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Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Stachel said:
PS "Soon (TM)" isn't a filed trademark either.
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You do gain proprietary rights through use though, filed or not. All you have to do is show you've been using since before the first provable claim of use by whoever's complaining. Fair enough that's more like copyright, effectively a trademark though because you can claim against copyright infringement and the tendency is to earn association with your brand over time. Copyrights are WAY cheaper too, so what's it worth?
 
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Whitehair

W
Stachel said:
You apparently have no clue what a trademark *filing* is.

PS "Soon (TM)" isn't a filed trademark either.
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OMG.

Noooooooo.

Stop the world.

A forum meme hasn't been tradmarked. How will the company survive this overly lazy, stupid and ignorant oversight?

edit: Does that mean I could trademark "Soon (TM)" ?
 
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Shadowdancer

Shadowdancer
Winterwalker said:
You do gain proprietary rights through use though, filed or not. All you have to do is show you've been using since before the first provable claim of use by whoever's complaining.
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I think you're mixing this up with patents. Trademarks don't really have that strong "prior art" concept; if someone tries to register your "™", depending on the trademark office you can contest it, but that's about it.

And copyright… yay let's not go there because dat stuff be weird and completely variable all over the world (e.g., you have to file something in the US to have it protected, whereas in Germany the local "equivalent" of copyright protection is implicit in creation), whereas trademarks at least have some kind of globalisation.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Shadowdancer said:
I think you're mixing this up with patents. Trademarks don't really have that strong "prior art" concept; if someone tries to register your "™", depending on the trademark office you can contest it, but that's about it.

And copyright… yay let's not go there because dat stuff be weird and completely variable all over the world (e.g., you have to file something in the US to have it protected, whereas in Germany the local "equivalent" of copyright protection is implicit in creation), whereas trademarks at least have some kind of globalisation.
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That's all fair enough and does illustrate the quagmire of expense associated with this kind of protection. What's more important about the engine, as an intellectual property in this case though, is not it's name but what it does and how it does it? And as that code's probably changing on a regular basis - with engine updates - what do you actually register? It's out of date, more or less immediately? The code itself, copyright.

The value of that engine to your company, is realised if you were to sell it. Call it Fred, it still has the same market value because it's not really a question of brand recognition, sold as a specialist product, if it does a job for the customer.

Stachel said:
Good luck with that one Frontier.

"Cobra" trademark for games, registered in 1997.
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Whatever that registration is for, it has no value in the market unless it's a better product than Frontier's.
 
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Zieman

Zieman
Stachel said:
Good luck with that one Frontier.

"Cobra" trademark for games, registered in 1997.
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Umm, that's for golf accessories, not video games...
Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes, including golf equipment, namely golf bag covers, golf bags, golf balls, golf club heads, golf club inserts, golf club shafts, golf clubs, hand grips for golf clubs, head covers for golf clubs, golf gloves, golf irons, golf putter covers, golf putters, golf tees.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Zieman said:
Umm, that's for golf accessories, not video games...
Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes, including golf equipment, namely golf bag covers, golf bags, golf balls, golf club heads, golf club inserts, golf club shafts, golf clubs, hand grips for golf clubs, head covers for golf clubs, golf gloves, golf irons, golf putter covers, golf putters, golf tees.
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Oh no! Did they trademark AIR hockey already!? I need that stuff to breathe! ....... dun dun duuuuuun.

:D
 

Stachel

Banned
Stachel
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S3B4ST13N

S
Shadowdancer said:
Using a name uncontested for a time makes claims against you contestable to a degree, but it does not give you the same protection as a proper registration. I find it weird that Frontier would go ahead and ® a fictitious alien species and a niche greeting phrase, but not the name of something that's supposed to be part of their core IP and just ™ that.
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I can't even begin to guess; Frontier have their own lawyers and reasons for doing what they do.
Perhaps they can't.. or don't want to .. 98% of trademarks in the US are (allegedly) not ever registered; so maybe a company doesn't feel it's worth it? Who knows. :p
 

Shadowdancer

Shadowdancer
Winterwalker said:
And as that code's probably changing on a regular basis - with engine updates - what do you actually register?
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A trademark does not care about product updates, it's just a moniker your product or company goes by, and that you do not want to be used by others in a competing context. You just register the mark (a name or a logo) for use in certain contexts (most commonly by the Nice classification, the engine would probably be in class 9) and pay the fee. The only thing you'd have to care about was changes of scope, so if Frontier decided to sell "Cobra" branded handguns and wanted to have that protected, they'd have to add a registration for class 13.
 

Zieman

Zieman
Stachel said:
It is for Class 28 which includes video games.

"amusement and game apparatus adapted for use with an external display screen or monitor"
http://web2.wipo.int/classifications/nice/nicepub/en/fr/edition-20160101/taxonomy/class-28/

Could it really be worse? :)
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Nah.

Class 28:
"Games and playthings; gymnastic and sporting articles; decorations for Christmas trees."

And the particular cobra trademark:
"Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes, including golf equipment, namely golf bag covers, golf bags, golf balls, golf club heads, golf club inserts, golf club shafts, golf clubs, hand grips for golf clubs, head covers for golf clubs, golf gloves, golf irons, golf putter covers, golf putters, golf tees."

So, that one is only for a subset of one specific category in class 28.
 
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-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Winterwalker said:
That's all fair enough and does illustrate the quagmire of expense associated with this kind of protection. What's more important about the engine, as an intellectual property in this case though, is not it's name but what it does and how it does it? And as that code's probably changing on a regular basis - with engine updates - what do you actually register? It's out of date, more or less immediately? The code itself, copyright.

The value of that engine to your company, is realised if you were to sell it. Call it Fred, it still has the same market value because it's not really a question of brand recognition, sold as a specialist product, if it does a job for the customer.



Whatever that registration is for, it has no value in the market unless it's a better product than Frontier's.
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Zieman said:
Umm, that's for golf accessories, not video games...
Gymnastic and sporting articles not included in other classes, including golf equipment, namely golf bag covers, golf bags, golf balls, golf club heads, golf club inserts, golf club shafts, golf clubs, hand grips for golf clubs, head covers for golf clubs, golf gloves, golf irons, golf putter covers, golf putters, golf tees.
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This guy is so funny. I have left him off my ignore list so I can laugh at his utter rubbish. He is totally clueless, but acts like he knows everything.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
Shadowdancer said:
A trademark does not care about product updates, it's just a moniker your product or company goes by, and that you do not want to be used by others in a competing context. You just register the mark (a name or a logo) for use in certain contexts (most commonly by the Nice classification, the engine would probably be in class 9) and pay the fee. The only thing you'd have to care about was changes of scope, so if Frontier decided to sell "Cobra" branded handguns and wanted to have that protected, they'd have to add a registration for class 13.
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Aye.

I guess a Cobra beer is out of the question then!? Meet the cure ...
stallone-cobra-poster021.jpg

Anyway, does nobody care that multiple light sources might kill my Commander?? [alien]
 

[SI] Bobdelion

[SI] Bobdelion
Couldn't it just be that it doesn't have a trademark because it doesn't need one. We are talking about an engine that is only used internally by Frontier after all - COBRA is just a consistent label for the tools they have been working with and developing for years. This label is useful when speaking about their tools with investors or within marketing literature but actually doesn't change anything substantial about their specific usage within Frontier itself.

Additionally, none of us actually know what the engine can or can't do in totality but that is ultimately beside the point. Because Frontier control their own tools they have (and have had) the ability to develop them over the long term as and when required by the products they wish to produce. We have already seen Frontier raise the spec' of in-game assets and the associated hardware requirements of E: D with past updates and I do not see them being shy about doing this in the future should it be deemed worthwhile. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see another specification jump when we finally get atmospheric planets and for all we know that may also involve upgrades to the lighting model.
 
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