Modes Open Mode Balancing Proposal... Open PvE

[Mouse]

Didnt say that did I? What I did say is that your statement that PvErs dont partake in a bit of competitive epeen waving is false, citing the Dangerous Games as a nice cleqr example, as it was made up of predominantly PvE groups doing PvE things while waving their epeens around, causing lots of toxic drama, and competing against each other.

You could be right.. I have not spent a lot of time paying attention to it, it is not my forte. But still trying to use it as a blanket statement that PVErs as a whole do it is erroneous.

A PvP/E flag is a terrible idea. How will it not instantly turn into an exploit?

And please explain to me how the game is improved by having ships out there which don't respond to being shot at?

"Oh, that guy is immune to weapons fire because he flipped a switch on his right control panel. Such immersion!"

You still never answered if you start all over if your character dies... if not.. where is your "immersion"?

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Oh god.. imagine the salt kill stealing in CZs/RES's will cause.

Flipping on the flag as you're losing a duel would be the new combat logging.

Worse still, it would be a "legitimate" game mechanic.

I can just hear the justifications already:

"At 13% hull, I decided that I was being harassed and that PvP wasn't my playstyle. I have the right to play the game MY WAY!"

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Speaking for myself, indeed - but maybe not quite as completely as it may seem.

For instance, while my stance on the three modes sharing the single galaxy state has not changed since I first read the design, I recognise that there are players who thrive on the kind of gameplay that can't be guaranteed due to the existence of Solo and Private Groups. That's why I have previously suggested "The New Bubble" (TNB) - a permit locked region of the galaxy (several thousand systems, one new bubble per platform) that can only be accessed, i.e. affected, in Open. Nothing else would need to change - no tweaking of the relationship between the game modes required - just a simple check on logging in (if located in TNB, only Open would be available as a game mode option) and when attempting to enter it when playing (no permit available if not in Open). Each TNB could be populated with new NPC factions, relocated Player Factions and new Powers. CGs could be run within TNB. Essentially all existing gameplay could occur in TNB - and each TNB could only be affected by players in Open on that platform.

That's one potential compromise position - that does not seek to remove access to existing content from players in Solo and Private Groups. Yes, three regions of space would be inaccessible in Solo and Private Groups - however, in my opinion, that's an acceptable price to add something to suit the play-style of players that prefer PvP.

How about you and the rest of the PvE brigade get a New Bubble instead? Leave the current one for Open Play. That sounds much better to me.

Flipping on the flagpole as you're losing a duel would be the new combat logging.

Worse still, it would be a "legitimate" game mechanic.

I can just hear the justifications already:

"At 13% hull, I decided that I was being harassed and that PvP wasn't my playstyle. I have the right to play the game MY WAY!"

Jeeze. Didn’t even think of that.

Yeah. Your idea is problematic at best, OP.

 

[Kruger]

Flipping on the flag as you're losing a duel would be the new combat logging.

Worse still, it would be a "legitimate" game mechanic.

I can just hear the justifications already:

"At 13% hull, I decided that I was being harassed and that PvP wasn't my playstyle. I have the right to play the game MY WAY!"

That sounds absolutely dreadful.

What if the flag could only be changed in stations?

I'm not advocating for anything, just and idea for THAT specific instance should something like this ever come around, which it won't.

 

[Walking Hazards]

Aww.... someone upset that their veiled insults were called out? This is part of the big issue, the PVErs and most PVPers play the game and get along splendidly.... it is a subset of PVPers who "rock the boat" for a better term. And if you are referring to my use of Seal clubbing, griefing, and the like... it is not an insult... it is what they are DOING. Calling someone a griefer when they publicly claim they grief is as if I told someone smoking meth that they were a meth head... (no correlation just analogy between two groups doing something and being called something because of their actions) and you thinking I am arrogant and insulting them? Yet anyone who objects to their practices of seal clubbing and the like is insulted for doing so, many times told to "get gud", told to play elsewhere then criticized for doing so, giving condescending nicknames, talked down to as if they are children, etc.

This whole Open vs Public Groups vs Solo debacle that has been going on since forever... is not because of the PVErs, it is not because of the majority of the PVPers... it is because of this "subgroup" of PVPers who have a mindset of the game that doesn't fit into the game or the community as a whole. So when Sylveria, myself and others who PVE or PVP try to come up with ideas that work for both groups, it is that "subgroup" who make snide comments, derail, troll, etc. Because they don't want the community working well together, they don't want PVErs and PVPers working slight hangups out to get the community working smoothly, they want to frustrate PVErs and get them to make comments about removing PVP from the game. Because in doing so they feel that PVPers will feel their game threatened and back their more extreme ideas to change the core of the game. This crap has been going on since these forums existed, and look at most of the posts right after she started the topic.

You want to claim I am arrogant? Look at your insulting post and answer if is it to painful looking in that mirror.

You realise that you're the reason PvPers don't like the generalised view of PvErs put forward in the forums, right? For real, I've never heard a PvPer who's said "boy oh boy do I get along well with the people suggesting PvP disappear from Elite Dangerous, those guys are super reasonable".

You're so delusional that it's not even funny anymore, seriously, people like you are exactly the reason pirates and "fair" criminals turn to wanton player killing for no reason other than because they can. I've been on all 3 sides, the PvEr, the fair PvPer and the player killer and its people just like you and combat loggers that ruin the game, not PvPers.

If you REALLY want to improve the game, start looking for genuine, good solutions to issues you believe to exist. Think griefing is a huge issue right now? Cool, help by communicating with people on the other side FAIRLY to come up with engaging GAMEPLAY solutions (removing an aspect of gameplay entirely isn't a solution).

If you can't do that, stop interacting with the community, you're just making it worse.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Enough with the safe spots, you have solo and pg where you can undermine in safety. You have block because you think you are being abused if someone shoots at you.
You dont need anything else, the only way to die in this game is from another player anyway, a god mode with a switch of a button, glad the ship transfers are not instant, we wouldnt want to break the immersion after all.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

That sounds absolutely dreadful.

What if the flag could only be changed in stations?

I'm not advocating for anything, just and idea for THAT specific instance should something like this ever come around, which it won't.

Being only able to change the flag while docked would solve that specific scenario, but not the larger problem with flying around with your or others' ship being invincible to certain forms of attack. It's just game-breaking and cheesy beyond words.

And yeah- certain compromises to realism are made, because video game. Instant reloads and repairs are a thing, as are infinite "lives". But the line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

[Robert Maynard]

How about you and the rest of the PvE brigade get a New Bubble instead? Leave the current one for Open Play. That sounds much better to me.

The "PvE Brigade" has already got all three game modes and the single shared galaxy state as part of the game's design.

It's the "PvP Posse" that's pushing for content that is available to all players to be locked to their preferred game mode....

 

[Mouse]

You realise that you're the reason PvPers don't like the generalised view of PvErs put forward in the forums, right? For real, I've never heard a PvPer who's said "boy oh boy do I get along well with the people suggesting PvP disappear from Elite Dangerous, those guys are super reasonable".

You're so delusional that it's not even funny anymore, seriously, people like you are exactly the reason pirates and "fair" criminals turn to wanton player killing for no reason other than because they can. I've been on all 3 sides, the PvEr, the fair PvPer and the player killer and its people just like you and combat loggers that ruin the game, not PvPers.

If you REALLY want to improve the game, start looking for genuine, good solutions to issues you believe to exist. Think griefing is a huge issue right now? Cool, help by communicating with people on the other side FAIRLY to come up with engaging GAMEPLAY solutions (removing an aspect of gameplay entirely isn't a solution).

If you can't do that, stop interacting with the community, you're just making it worse.

Please show me ANYWHERE where I have said that PVP disappear from Elite Dangerous. When have I advocated for PVP being removed... I will give you help. I haven't, and yet you ironically call me delusional... just another PVP insulter who thinks they can shut others up by slinging insults at them.

I will agree with you on one thing, PVPers are not destroying the game, the certain subset of PVPers are.. they are the ones wanting to change the game into something it isn't just for their gameplay and to heck with anyone else PVE or PVP who play the game... all that matters is their play.

And if you actually paid attention to the many threads I have been in, you would see that I have tried to help for a genuine, good solutions to issues. That I WANT PVP to mean more, but not by tearing away from others.

But no... you just come in swinging blindly ignorant of what you swing at with the gall to claim I should stop interacting with the community and making it worse. How do those feet in your mouth taste?

Enough with the safe spots, you have solo and pg where you can undermine in safety. You have block because you think you are being abused if someone shoots at you.
You dont need anything else, the only way to die in this game is from another player anyway, a god mode with a switch of a button, glad the ship transfers are not instant, we wouldnt want to break the immersion after all.

Horse crap and you know it, but you just keep shoveling

Being only able to change the flag while docked would solve that specific scenario, but not the larger problem with flying around with your or others' ship being invincible to certain forms of attack. It's just game-breaking and cheesy beyond words.

And yeah- certain compromises to realism are made, because video game. Instant reloads and repairs are a thing, as are infinite "lives". But the line has to be drawn somewhere.

So you are willing to compromise realism for your "lives" but can't deal with it for those who don't want to pvp... rather selfish

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

The "PvE Brigade" has already got all three game modes and the single shared galaxy state as part of the game's design.

It's the "PvP Posse" that's pushing for content that is available to all players to be locked to their preferred game mode....

What’s the matter? An in game ghetto is good for the goose but not the gander?

 

[Robert Maynard]

What’s the matter? An in game ghetto is good for the goose but not the gander?

If it's an all or nothing deal then nothing would seem to be the likely outcome....

 

[oRZACK]

Nice try-

BGS is core to the entire game, regardless of mode. For those who play in PG/Solo they have NO choice but to affect the BGS because any action they take will have an affect.

Simply hauling cargo from point A to point B with the intent to make credits can affect it. Again- not the player's choice, so intent cannot be implied.

As to affecting the BGS everyone has the same options- same with the modes. The perceived "imbalance" has been proven again and again to be a fallacy at best.

As to the actual topic at hand- we were discussing proposal options for Open PvE, not your perceptions on "risk assessment" in ED- so let's try and keep the topic on the rails, thanks!

Sorry but if you play in solo or pg and you try to screw my bgs.... you can do it with out oposition, you doesnt be interdicted, nobody will stop you. Or try at least to stop your actions because nobody can see you. And only will see it when the thick happened. So again i dont see your point the solo and pg pve its something that affects all without risk of nothing....for thst i insist that elite isnt dangerous and the rest its poetry.....



By the way i do all in open if i want to screw a faction bgs i do that in open and i assume the risk of being blown to the oblivionif i get caught not like the solo or private group guys that are afraid of open sitting in their billions of credits and making this game elite not dangerous

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

So you are willing to compromise realism for your "lives" but can't deal with it for those who don't want to pvp... rather selfish

We've been through this. Those who don't want to PvP have two entire game modes ready to go for them. Leave open alone, and stop characterizing it as something that it isn't. Open is for everyone. It isn't owned by the PvP community. It's simply the game mode where anything can happen.

Serious question here: how much time have you actually spent in open?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

We've been through this. Those who don't want to PvP have two entire game modes ready to go for them. Leave open alone, and stop characterizing it as something that it isn't. Open is for everyone. It isn't owned by the PvP community. It's simply the game mode where anything can happen.

Serious question here: how much time have you actually spent in open?

Oh all the time dontcha know? Block features and exploring.

Hey fun story, a few days ago this Xbox commander gloated about how good he was and grinding salt from the PVPers by him escaping all the time. It was voted to the top. Everyone congratulating him and calling PVPers names.

Then you go to the combat logger subreddit. You see him talking smack in local about how the guy is trash. As he logs out of the game because he got hit with a FSD missile.

Id post the links here. But apparently you cant name and shame. You cant even link the combat loggers subreddit.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Open is for everyone. It isn't owned by the PvP community. It's simply the game mode where anything can happen.

Same goes for the BGS, i.e. it isn't owned by the PvP community.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Oh all the time dontcha know? Block features and exploring.

Yes I dont see any cmdrs at sag A, open is as safe as solo *block* *block*, *router settings... click click*

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Same goes for the BGS, i.e. it isn't owned by the PvP community.

For the last time, Maynard: it's perfectly valid for people from Canada to fly a Chieftain into battle.

Spoiler

See how it is when someone responds in a manner not even close to addressing what was actually said?

 

[Robert Maynard]

For the last time, Maynard: it's perfectly valid for people from Canada to fly a Chieftain into battle.

Spoiler

See how it is when someone responds in a manner not even close to addressing what was actually said?

Merely pointing out that, like Open, the BGS belongs to all players....

 

[Walking Hazards]

Same goes for the BGS, i.e. it isn't owned by the PvP community.

BGS is owned by all players, yes, just like open. However, if you're suggesting that it's fair for a group of 100 people in private mode to undermine an open only group of 20 that couldn't even get access to the PG the underminers are using to stop them, you're clearly insane. BGS should be kept separate, there should be solo BGS, PG BGS and open BGS. That should keep everyone happy, because open only groups don't care about their private or solo BGS and vice versa.

 

[Robert Maynard]

BGS is owned by all players, yes, just like open. However, if you're suggesting that it's fair for a group of 100 people in private mode to undermine an open only group of 20 that couldn't even get access to the PG the underminers are using to stop them, you're clearly insane. BGS should be kept separate, there should be solo BGS, PG BGS and open BGS. That should keep everyone happy, because open only groups don't care about their private or solo BGS and vice versa.

A group of 20 is probably going to be trounced by a group of 100, regardless of game mode.

Then there's the fact that all three game platforms share the single galaxy state - and players are not instanced with those on other platforms.

While some contend that the BGS should be separate, that's not how Frontier designed their game - in this game PvP is optional while the shared BGS is not.