Modes Open mode balancing proposal

[Jockey79]

I'll remind you of that the next time we have a UA bombing mockrage, or a group manages to lockdown a CG.

I'm not the one who cries over that. It's part of the game.

Lost count of how many times I've told people they can counter UA bombing etc....

As for lock down, folks should have been paying attention and supporting the local factions properly / paying attention.
If people ignore the BGS (as I tend to) then they shouldn't complain when things change (I just move to another system and carry on doing what I was doing).
I've been pushed out of 2 Fed system since I've been playing, which is no big deal. I just do my thing elsewhere, it's not as if there is a shortage of systems to play in.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'll remind you of that the next time we have a UA bombing mockrage, or a group manages to lockdown a CG.

Is UA bombing working the BGS?

Even if it is, that doesn't make the statement Working the BGS from Solo/Group is griefing any more true than PvP is griefing.

Its funny you mention that- proposals have included making Powerplay Open only, and more confrontational with more punchy territorial fighting. If FD were given enough feedback and encouragement, Powerplay would fit the bill for sanctioned violence without the boring bits.

And when Frontier introduces a mechanic that tried to encourage confrontational punchy territorial fighting, the same people who argue for PP Open only immediately exploit that feature.

Sends a message to Frontier, wouldn't you say?

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Thanks for the support. As I said, what you described isn't griefing.

And I take it, since you didn't address it, you agreed with my other point?

Playing the game as intended isn't "griefing" by any stretch of the imagination.

Trying to pass it off as it, shows just how dishonest some people are.

Even if I agree with that erroneous notion, it would only mean that FDev created an EXCEPTION. It is the only game which left griefing as a valid gameplay mechanic. And about the only one, with limited exceptions of honest people.

And minecraft though... It sort of full with intended griefing mechanics. Yet they are preventable, so it does not even come close.

Direct griefing would be shooting out FSD and drives while repairing the hull.
Indirect griefing is what we have as in fact the ONLY type of legitimate BGS interaction.
As it ties some people to one place. Without ANY means to prevent it. Only repair the damage.

Without player factions, no matter how many quote marks would be around "player", this would be fine. With them in the equation, this situation becomes "b0110ks", thank you for improving my vocabulary.

This system is fracking unique, and not in a good way. Any analogies? Cross-system railguns from whatever that 4X game was called? No, sorry. You can wreck them.

I hope it would be fixed in Q4. This solo madness has to stop.


That being said... If such terrorist actions would spawn Terrorist NPCs in any mode, and by killing them, you would freeze influence changes for some time? And something like that with every other type of transactions. This might fix it. To an extent.

Some people pledge to a power in order to play Powerplay. Some exploit that pledge to be able to PvP without consequences, they don't care about the Power they are pledging to.

I liked Frontier's idea to exclude power on power encounters from the normal Crime and Punishment regulations in order to promote PvP. Of course, there are always those who take Frontier's good intentions and exploit them. If you only pledge to escape C&P, you are basically undermining Frontier's adjustment which it made to promote Powerplay PvP.

So you lot may be constantly bleating about how you would like a more PvP focused game, but when you abuse the mechanics that Frontier implemented to do just that, your actions contradict your words.

A swarm. Of ninja T9. In a private G. Undetectable. With 700 tonnes of Aisling softcore mags each.

Nothing is abused.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Even if I agree with that erroneous notion, it would only mean that FDev created an EXCEPTION. It is the only game which left griefing as a valid gameplay mechanic. And about the only one, with limited exceptions of honest people.


Direct griefing would be shooting out FSD and drives while repairing the hull.
Indirect griefing is what we have as in fact the ONLY type of legitimate BGS interaction.

Bull, you need to prove intent for it to be griefing. From your defintion:

"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game"

If a player is playing the BGS simply to further his own faction, that's not griefing. His or her intent is not to irritate, but to further the faction. So until you can prove that ALL BGS from solo/pg is meant to irritate players, you got nothing.

I remind you you stated: "The ONLY type of legitimate BGS interaction". So you need to prove ALL BGS interaction is intended to irritate and harass other players.

A swarm. Of ninja T9. In a private G. Undetectable. With 700 tonnes of Aisling softcore mags each.

Nothing is abused.

Quite right.

A sooped up engineered to the eyeballs Vette shooting anything that moves. Nothing is abused either.

See? That's called being consistent. I might not like the Vette's actions, but I'm not going to label it griefing just because I don't like it. It's legitimate gameplay.

 

[Jockey79]

Even if I agree with that erroneous notion, it would only mean that FDev created an EXCEPTION. It is the only game which left griefing as a valid gameplay mechanic. And about the only one, with limited exceptions of honest people.

Constantly misusing "griefing" doesn't make your point valid. It makes your post look stupid.

There is plenty of documentation on how the BGS works - which can be done in any mode.
This is the game you bought, a PVE token pushing game.

Direct griefing would be shooting out FSD and drives while repairing the hull.

Direct "griefing" doesn't exist - you just put them on block, logout (15 second timer in your example). Done.
Never see that person again if you manage your friends list properly.

Indirect griefing is what we have as in fact the ONLY type of legitimate BGS interaction.
As it ties some people to one place. Without ANY means to prevent it. Only repair the damage.

Actually, if people are actively reinforcing their borders. Any attack would fail.
These attacks on succeed because no one is paying attention / defending the area.
Even if a PNF is 100% in control, someone should always be "defending" and doing missions etc... to counter any attempt by others - this is the price you pay for supporting a faction.

This system is fracking unique, and not in a good way.

In your opinion.

I like the mode system, and it's used in other MMOs.
I first seen it in 2009 - so it's not new

This solo madness has to stop.

Forum whining over advertised game features needs to stop.

The mode system was here long before you - you've no excuse to not have known about it before buying the game.
You're at fault for buying a game made in a way you don't like.

A swarm. Of ninja T9. In a private G. Undetectable. With 700 tonnes of Aisling softcore mags each.

Power Play is not the BGS, don't conflate the two.

PP has it's own problems that can be fixed separately to the BGS.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Are we nearly there yet?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are we nearly there yet?

There's a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it's alright, baby, it's all right
And it's very far away
But it's growing day by day and it's all right
Baby, it's all right, yeah
Would you like to come along
You can help me sing the song
And it's all right, baby, it's all right
They can tell you what to do
But they'll make a fool of you and it's all right
Baby, it's all right

 

[Arry]

It has become a discussion about modes. That discussion is relevant to the proposal but of (IMO) very low quality.

Err.... The 2nd word in the thread title and the O.P.; is MODE. What is this thread about again?

 

[Riverside]

Err.... The 2nd word in the thread title and the O.P.; is MODE. What is this thread about again?

A proposal to change the way the game works.

This is not a discussion about modes of Elite, it is a proposal to change the way the game works.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Look. I would not do all multiquoting. Sorry, too much grind.
If some faction declares a war on the other in the discord or something, or would at least move influence of their faction so it would be visible who is attacking - that would be NOT griefing. Yet done with the same flawed methods.

If some dude/wing just comes and griefs BGS of some faction cause he/they failed horribly against them in PvP, and would post troll videos about griefing their BGS at youtube, this would be what?...

If this would happen in the Open, only deep at the night or something, with at least some possibility to catch him/them, this would be ok. With status quo, we have godmode griefing.

This is bogus. Please tell me of any other strategy game with the same functionality. There is none. There is only ED. And solo cobras. Which this game is balanced around. And should cease to be. EvE or not.

And somehow no one even said something about size 3 text. What is your purpose here? Indirectly grief me?

 

[Han_Zen]

I've been thinking a bit about the 'Open bonus'. How can it be implemented in a way that is not overly technically complex and at the same time give an attractive incentive to play in open.

I think the best place to put the bonus, is on the rebuy screen. That would give a single point mode check. You can not cheat the rebuy screen, by switching modes.

It's also easy to balance. Start of with half rebuy and 50% cargo insurance, if you die in open. Adjust until sever stats shows the mode distribution FD are looking for.

Cheap, easy and attractive.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I've been thinking a bit about the 'Open bonus'. How can it be implemented in a way that is not overly technically complex and at the same time give an attractive incentive to play in open.

I think the best place to put the bonus, is on the rebuy screen. That would give a single point mode check. You can not cheat the rebuy screen, by switching modes.

It's also easy to balance. Start of with half rebuy and 50% cargo insurance, if you die in open. Adjust until sever stats shows the mode distribution FD are looking for.

Cheap, easy and attractive.

You cannot cheat rebuy screen?...

I'd actualy went with increased rebuys after you opt for stuff inside op.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If some dude/wing just comes and griefs BGS of some faction, cause he/they can't do crap against them in PvP, and posts troll videos about it at youtube, this would be what?...

Earlier you claimed all BGS transaction in Solo/PG were griefing. Now you specify intent. You can be taught!

I won't argue that no griefing goes on making use of the BGS. In that regard it's exactly the same as PvP. Some griefing goes on in PvP, some griefing goes on in BGS. It's a multiplayer game, there's one born every minute.

But most of PvP isn't griefing, just like most of BGS transactions in solo/private isn't griefing. You can't make a blanket statement: PvP is griefing. You can't make a blanket statement: Solo/pg BGS is griefing.

 

[Riverside]

I've been thinking a bit about the 'Open bonus'. How can it be implemented in a way that is not overly technically complex and at the same time give an attractive incentive to play in open.

I think the best place to put the bonus, is on the rebuy screen. That would give a single point mode check. You can not cheat the rebuy screen, by switching modes.

It's also easy to balance. Start of with half rebuy and 50% cargo insurance, if you die in open. Adjust until sever stats shows the mode distribution FD are looking for.

Cheap, easy and attractive.

Effectively just cheaper insurance for ship loss in Open? I'm not in favour of disparity between modes, and I believe death should have more consequence but ignoring that objection it would be a simple, workable solution.

If any discount were applied to damage, profits etc it would be exploitable by mode switching but as you say, ship destruction happens in the mode you chose. It would help PvPers to more easily swallow the bitter pill of milk runs being nerfed too.

 

[Jockey79]

If some faction declares a war on the other in the discord or something, or would at least move influence of their faction so it would be visible who is attacking - that would be NOT griefing. Yet done with the same flawed methods.

So what you actually want is a notification of who is working against you - so you can do it back to them?

Of course the catch is, as we cannot join a faction properly. The game cannot tell you what faction is working against you.
So what you need to fix your issues is the ability for players to be able to properly join a faction so you can properly attack / defend.

This sounds a lot like Power Play, just with notifications.

If this would happen in the Open, only deep at the night or something, with at least some possibility to catch him/them, this would be ok. With status quo, we have godmode griefing.

No such thing as "God Mode"

You also ignore that your PNF may not have people on PS4, so what if a PS4 PNF attacks you?

This is bogus. Please tell me of any other strategy game with the same functionality.

This isn't a "strategy game" - it's a space simulation.

 

[Arry]

So what you actually want is a notification of who is working against you - so you can do it back to them?

Of course the catch is, as we cannot join a faction properly. The game cannot tell you what faction is working against you.
So what you need to fix your issues is the ability for players to be able to properly join a faction so you can properly attack / defend.

This sounds a lot like Power Play, just with notifications.



[/B]No such thing as "God Mode"

You also ignore that your PNF may not have people on PS4, so what if a PS4 PNF attacks you?



This isn't a "strategy game" - it's a space simulation.

I saw a thread here somewhere that basically stated that this is NOT a 'simulation'. No matter what mode you play.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Earlier you claimed all BGS transaction in Solo/PG were griefing. Now you specify intent. You can be taught!

I won't argue that no griefing goes on making use of the BGS. In that regard it's exactly the same as PvP. Some griefing goes on in PvP, some griefing goes on in BGS. It's a multiplayer game, there's one born every minute.

But most of PvP isn't griefing, just like most of BGS transactions in solo/private isn't griefing. You can't make a blanket statement: PvP is griefing. You can't make a blanket statement: Solo/pg BGS is griefing.

This isn't a "strategy game" - it's a space simulation.

What kind of game ED is is irrelevant.

And notifications are useless either - PF needs proper, automated or manual, mechanisms to protect.
Not just clean up stuff after some kind of poltergheist which craps right in front of them.

Open only would be manual. NPC spawning to reflect actions of anyone in any mode would be manual. Transfering offender's attention to his system would be manual.
Automated would be ATR spawning on someone's rear for certain actions as long as a carrier is in the system.
And as long as you do not want it to become EvE, there have to be automated ones.

 

[Jockey79]

What kind of game ED is is irrelevant.

It's quite relevant.

If it was a real "strategy game" (as you called it), then the mode system would be stupid.
But lucky for us it's not one.

And notifications are useless either - PF needs proper, automated or manual, mechanisms to protect.
Not just clean up stuff after some kind of poltergheist which craps right in front of them.

Open only would be manual. NPC spawning to reflect actions of anyone in any mode would be manual. Transfering offender's attention to his system would be manual.
Automated would be ATR spawning on someone's rear for certain actions as long as a carrier is in the system.
And as long as you do not want it to become EvE, there have to be automated ones.

Some preventative systems to defend a faction would be great.
Not sure how to do it, as I don't pay that much attention to the system.
But anything that is added for all players (not just open mode players) is welcome in my book.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

It's quite relevant.

If it was a real "strategy game" (as you called it), then the mode system would be stupid.
But lucky for us it's not one.



Some preventative systems to defend a faction would be great.
Not sure how to do it, as I don't pay that much attention to the system.
But anything that is added for all players (not just open mode players) is welcome in my book.

While it does not have to be open only in that instance, I am sure Open players can get something for themselves.
After all, there are wings in the game. And soon discussion about squadrons will start.
So solo is "abused" already or whatever.

 

[Jockey79]

While it does not have to be open only in that instance, I am sure Open players can get something for themselves.
After all, there are wings in the game. And soon discussion about squadrons will start.
So solo is "abused" already or whatever.

Open players don't "need" anything for themselves.
They have an entire mode where they can do whatever they want, to whom ever they want as and when they find them.
People who don't want that type of game play, are forced out of open, in to PGs or Solo.
So PGs and Solo are the players who deserve extras, as they don't have an entire player base to interact with at will.

Wings are also in PGs, Squadrons also sound like another multiplayer system.
So Solo players are getting short changed, as they have not had a feature added just for them, but both multiplayer modes have.