Modes Open mode balancing proposal

[Mouse]

Applauds. A basic job should pay double cause some people can do two advanced ones. Relocate to North Korea, they would like you.

Wait where is the uproar from PVPers about someone using real world in the forum disccusion *crickets, crickets* Thought so.... and by the way, you make no sense at all...There is no "basic job" and "advanced job" there is one job... two ways to do it... if you do not like the idea of Solo getting extra merits then maybe you should stop demanding Open get extra crap?

Nah he pulled some D rated dropship getting ganked by a clipper and thinks all encounters are like this.

Actually no, I do not think all fights are like this. It is called an example of how easy it can be... not how it always is. I find it funny that you just wave this aside and claim that I "think all encounters are like this" when YOU are the who who litterally DOES think all NPC encounters are like that. You have stated it over and over and over. So it is good when it is your argument but bad when you assume it is the argument of someone who disagrees with you.

That's the whole idea of DWE2. If DWE2 started today, no way I fly 130.000ly with the current mechanics.

I'm game ^,^ I am not signed up for DWE2, but I'm getting the itch of the black again.

Just imagine i focused on fun rather that proving the size of my epeen... oh, wait, that's what i do!

+1000 Lbs of Cubeo Razorback Bacon

 

[Agony_Aunt]

When you lable every player who dares to attack you without first begging your permission a bad actor worthy of blocking, that puts the lie to the above statement.

It's a skill deficient crutch, and you're simply lobbying for it's widespread use as opposed to increasing your own skill cap. That's been your line as long as I've known you, and this is just more of the same, old friend.

And yet, I don't do that. You my friend are presuming something i'm not implying.

I've had PvP fights with a variety of people, some organized, some not.

I'm not lobbying for people for the widespread use of blocking, that is the personal choice of every player as to whom they block. I am saying that those who gank without cause shouldn't cry if they find they are blocked by the majority though.

If you have been watching my posts so well, you should note, that unlike certain people here, i don't often lobby for anything, i'm just enjoying the game FD have developed. It could be better, so could many games, but i let the devs do their stuff, and play as much as i want, and i play other games, and let those devs do what they want. Basically, stamp and scream all you want, devs will do what they want. Find the games that suit your needs, and enjoy them, and that way you can be fulfilled, rather than spending your time in futile attempts trying to make the devs do what you want. Its a worthless cause.

 

[Mouse]

Hold up there, Mouse. It was your example.

If that's not your experience fighting NPC's, what the heck was your point?

I thought you and Algo were about to brohug there for a sec.

Now you're getting all huffy because he believed you?

That's some pro level passive aggressive forum game right there, Mouse.

You sure you're not ready for real PvP?

The point is I set a trap and Algo walked right into it.

I posted

You are right fighting commanders is not like fighting NPCs...This took less than a minute to find

He posted

Ok and now try and do it against 10 others and not against one cmdr who has no idea how to outfit a ship.

He claims that NPCs are always easy, I show him an example of an instakill... didn't say if it was NPC or PC... Algo said it was a commander then dismissed the example and my argument as meaninglessly. Didn't even notice that it was an NPC and not a commander in a D rated ship as he later claims. Heck I wonder if he even watched the video.

Algo loves to dismiss other peoples arguments when he makes the same arguments himself, I just gave him enough rope to tangle himself in. Your comment is the same "claiming" I am all huffy and passive aggressive when all I did was show the hypocrisy of his argument. I even showed him a video that he could use as ammo for his argument... and his reply... I am wrong, and he couldn't even verify what he claimed I was wrong at.

If you want to talk about passive aggressive.. you may want to talk to all the certain PVPers who love making veiled insults to PVERrs and calling them "carebears" and such. Heck may want to check yourself as you keep trying to bait me and trying to insinuate that the reasons I don't PVP are bull. You've made your disbelief clear and I could care less.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The point is I set a trap and Algo walked right into it.

I posted



He posted



He claims that NPCs are always easy, I show him an example of an instakill... didn't say if it was NPC or PC... Algo said it was a commander then dismissed the example and my argument as meaninglessly. Didn't even notice that it was an NPC and not a commander in a D rated ship as he later claims. Heck I wonder if he even watched the video.

Algo loves to dismiss other peoples arguments when he makes the same arguments himself, I just gave him enough rope to tangle himself in. Your comment is the same "claiming" I am all huffy and passive aggressive when all I did was show the hypocrisy of his argument. I even showed him a video that he could use as ammo for his argument... and his reply... I am wrong, and he couldn't even verify what he claimed I was wrong at.

If you want to talk about passive aggressive.. you may want to talk to all the certain PVPers who love making veiled insults to PVERrs and calling them "carebears" and such. Heck may want to check yourself as you keep trying to bait me and trying to insinuate that the reasons I don't PVP are bull. You've made your disbelief clear and I could care less.

I didnt walk into anything, you have no idea (as ussual) what you are talking about. Every npc encounter doesnt last longer than 1 min.
A cmdr encounter can last 20, and thats taking into account you didnt die in this time.

Comparing fighting NPCs with fighting CMDRs is a non argument, go to any CG, fly in SC for an hour in OPEN then do the same in solo. Make sure you record and post it here, we will discuss after.

 

[Mouse]

I didnt walk into anything, you have no idea (as ussual) what you are talking about. Every npc encounter doesnt last longer than 1 min.
A cmdr encounter can last 20, and thats taking into account you didnt die in this time.

Comparing fighting NPCs with fighting CMDRs is a non argument, go to any CG, fly in SC for an hour in OPEN then do the same in solo. Make sure you record and post it here, we will discuss after.

This coming from the person who said what was on the video was a "commander" ^,^... sure. And How many times on these forums do people report that they were killed by other players in SECONDS... but yet you still ignore all of it because you are right and everyone else is wrong... and you are wrong. Plus NPC battles can last a long time as well, JUST because you don't have issues with them doesn't mean the majority of players are just like you. You cannot seem to understand that. The game is set for the average player.. not for the uber elite like you... quit trying to screw everyone else over.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

This coming from the person who said what was on the video was a "commander" ^,^... sure. And How many times on these forums do people report that they were killed by other players in SECONDS... but yet you still ignore all of it because you are right and everyone else is wrong... and you are wrong. Plus NPC battles can last a long time as well, JUST because you don't have issues with them doesn't mean the majority of players are just like you. You cannot seem to understand that. The game is set for the average player.. not for the uber elite like you... quit trying to screw everyone else over.

I am like an average at pvp, not even close to uber elite but thanks. Regardless, we are comparing opponents that actually want to fight you between a Cmdr and an NPC there is a multiplier of at least 10 in favour of the Cmdr. Basically fighting even a semi competent pvpier is like going against 3 elite condas or 15 vipers NPCs.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

So, you posted a video that Algomatic wasn't supposed to watch and it was supposed to be some sort of trap?

Riiiight. Next you'll have a perfectly good bridge to sell me.

Careful, Mouse. The cracks are beginning to show through your facade.

Out of rep but here is your 1000lbs of Eravate virgin blood

 

[Jockey79]

Out of rep but here is your 1000lbs of Eravate virgin blood

Fluids are measured in litres (ltr) not pounds (lbs).

Wrong again eh

 

[Mouse]

So, you posted a video that Algomatic wasn't supposed to watch and it was supposed to be some sort of trap?

Riiiight. Next you'll have a perfectly good bridge to sell me.

Careful, Mouse. The cracks are beginning to show through your facade.

What cracks? Who said he wasn't suppose to watch it...I didn't. I said he DIDN'T watch it (big difference). And if he did it is rather strange for the PVP king to not know that it wasn't another commander. He made assumptions then put his foot in his mouth. He is so "You are always wrong and I am always right" that when I posted something supporting him... he says it is wrong offhandedly.. didn't look, didn't do anything except instantly dismiss it.. THIS is why we cannot get anything done. He, you, and others scream that Myself and other PVErs are the issue and why nothing can get done. Yet don't even look at what is posted, just see someone posted and immediately go off on them.

Do we want progress made? Do we want PVP to mean more than just a rebuy, then crap like he ALWAYS pulls needs to end.

 

[Warm Considering]

Fluids are measured in litres (ltr) not pounds (lbs).

Wrong again eh

Actually for aviation purposes fluids are measured by mass, not volume, and in the Imperial system the pound is both a unit of mass and a unit of force.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Fluids are measured in litres (ltr) not pounds (lbs).

Wrong again eh

Its dry blood, and I am never wrong.

What cracks? Who said he wasn't suppose to watch it...I didn't. I said he DIDN'T watch it (big difference). And if he did it is rather strange for the PVP king to not know that it wasn't another commander. He made assumptions then put his foot in his mouth. He is so "You are always wrong and I am always right" that when I posted something supporting him... he says it is wrong offhandedly.. didn't look, didn't do anything except instantly dismiss it.. THIS is why we cannot get anything done. He, you, and others scream that Myself and other PVErs are the issue and why nothing can get done. Yet don't even look at what is posted, just see someone posted and immediately go off on them.

Do we want progress made? Do we want PVP to mean more than just a rebuy, then crap like he ALWAYS pulls needs to end.

Lolwut?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Because, this game is a simulator and an accurate simulation is that there are great risks and very few rewards for violence. Among all the things that Elite gets right and wrong about living in space, this is probably the most accurate thing they do.

Farming NPCs is not nearly risky enough for that to be logically consistent.

 

[Jockey79]

Its dry blood, and I am never wrong.

"dry blood" is known as something else - so you were wrong to say just "blood" as it's ambiguous.
Zaphod got it right for "dry blood", that is measured in lbs

I like my virgin blood pudding style anyway.

I prefer the German name for it, Blutwurst.

I always thought "black pudding" is a stupid name for it, I think the Germans got it right.

Blood Sausage.

Farming NPCs is not nearly risky enough for that to be logically consistent.

For you maybe, some people struggle with NPCs.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Happily playing the game at the skill level that one is comfortable with, i.e. that set by Frontier themselves, is what we already have - with every player able to both experience and affect the single shared galaxy state.

For you maybe, some people struggle with NPCs.

So why people who are bored to death by farming NPCs cannot have farming players/goids as a more profitable venture?
There is no fun in communism.

Rather than preventing players from being able to shoot at each other - for which I get the "immersion breaking" point - how about the penalties for killing another player get some teeth? Essentially, the Pilots Federation extend Enhanced Protection / Insurance to members - and harsh punishments for murder - unless members are doing "work" for other factions (missions) or other high-risk / illegal activities.

Scenarios in which this Enhanced Protection is withdrawn - and, therefore, you can kill a player with the current level of repercussions - would include:

- The player shot at you first
- The player is on the opposing side in a CZ
- The player has a Bounty on them
- The player is carrying a mission with a "hostile ships may be sent against you" of a rank at least equal to your own combat rank AND has weapons equipped
- The player is carrying Rare, Stolen or Illicit cargo

All of the above effectively are a "PvP Flag" but expressed via in-game mechanisms / risk levels. Crucially, this means anyone just quietly Trading or Exploring is NOT fair game.

So, under any other circumstances - when Enhanced Pilots Federation Protection is in place - killing another Pilots Federation player result in:

1. Free rebuy cost for the victim

2. Pilots Federation Bounty on the murderers head:
- High Bounty: Total equal to the FULL COST of either the destroyed ship or their own ship, whichever is greater
- Assets Frozen: Can't change or purchase ships or modules until the Bounty is paid (but can still buy fuel and ammo in case you need to earn cash to pay the Bounty!)
- Mode Lock: Locked to Open mode until the Bounty is paid off
- Insurance Suspended: No rebuy option until the Bounty is paid off - you die, it's Sidewinder time

That would give some real consequences but would still allow players to interdict a player flying with Enhanced Pilots Federation Protection (which should be flagged when you scan them), fire a couple of salvos and - if they fire back - it's game on, otherwise leave 'em alone or the penalties will be severe.

And btw, murderers often do their stuff for vague reasons IRL as well. And having reason to do so usualy serves as aggravating factor. So it is really inconsequentual.
On penalties... Yeah, let's just turn it into PvE game from the other end, shall we?
If crime were even relatively as profitable as penalties you propose, that would be fine. Otherwise, it is not.

Yet I agree that penalties we have do not do jack.
I had proposed Ship Impound penalties somewhere in CnP FF.
That should be enough and shall go no further untill the profit from your crimes can cover up the costs.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So why people who are bored to death by farming NPCs cannot have farming players/goids as a more profitable venture?
There is no fun in communism.

Farming Thargoids is available in all game modes.

Farming players not so much.

 

[Han_Zen]

There is no fun in communism.

There is, if you are among the privileged.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

There is, if you are among the privileged.

I am taking ideal communism. Which Fdev seemingly tries to build.

Farming Thargoids is available in all game modes.

Farming players not so much.

And they do not pay jack per time unit compared even to normal assasinations.

Opposing players can be easily made as a valid venture, with changes I propose in the OP at least. Nuff said about Goids, just make them pay more moneys. Yet greedy potatoes inside D rated turreted vettes with docking computers do oppose it.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Of course doing all these things in Open is worth it. I do them all in Open! Look, meeting new people is a pleasure for me sometimes. I love running into other CMDRs, having conversation, and randomly winging up for whatever it is we're both doing. That's what Open is for. Although right now I'm taking my Exploraconda on a shakedown cruise around the block to gather some jumponium and other resources for the upcoming DW2 expedition, but I still do it in Open in the incredibly unlikely scenario I actually run into another explorer.

You heavily mistake Open with Mobious, it seems.

[video=youtube;8B7FFv_Vk9U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B7FFv_Vk9U[/video]


Can you just agree that doing anything in the Open except random PvP just does not worth it while it pays the same?

 

[Jockey79]

So why people who are bored to death by farming NPCs cannot have farming players/goids as a more profitable venture?
There is no fun in communism.

This has nothing to do with "communism" or any other political affiliation.

This is a computer game people paid for, with their own money - who do not have to do as you say or want.
You didn't buy my game, I did - and I'll play it how I want, because that is how Frontier made it.

If you are so eager to play with me, I charge £35 per hour (1 hour minimum charge) - otherwise, I'll play where I like.

Also, players are not there to be "farmed" unless they want to play that way - you are not the only person with freedom of choice.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

This has nothing to do with "communism" or any other political affiliation.

This is a computer game people paid for, with their own money - who do not have to do as you say or want.
You didn't buy my game, I did - and I'll play it how I want, because that is how Frontier made it.

If you are so eager to play with me, I charge £35 per hour (1 hour minimum charge) - otherwise, I'll play where I like.

Also, players are not there to be "farmed" unless they want to play that way - you are not the only person with freedom of choice.

There is no choice yet to put yourself in danger of being farmed or farm other players. As neither of this pays you anything. And why do you oppose adding it? It is not like you will have to participate in either.