Open-Only in PP2.0?

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
For my part I don't give a rats rear end about Eve and have zero interest in playing something like that.
Noting that, as EVE launched nine-and-a-half years before the Kickstarter for this game, Frontier must have been aware of its existence and chose not to make this game like that game - and got sufficient interest from backers in relation to their design and vision of the game to get the development started.

It can be reasonably argued that Frontier consciously chose not to make this game like EVE.
 
If you do insist on looking at Steam statistics: A game about clicking on bananas is the 4th most played game right now with almost half a million active players. Should we have more bananas in Elite?
At no point did I 'look' at Steam Statistics. What I said is that Jockey is looking at 'Steam Statistics' for his numbers, which are wildly out when compared with the server activity numbers
 
If you do insist on looking at Steam statistics: A game about clicking on bananas is the 4th most played game right now with almost half a million active players. Should we have more bananas in Elite?

Leave EVE to do EVE stuff.

I think i can confidently speak for the whole community when I say there are not enough bananas in ED!

And cats! Some cats would be nice.
 
It wouldn't make sense to have bananas in elite. The game takes place in 3300. We're in 2024 and bananas are facing extinction now. We're lucky if they survive until 2100.

Be wary of any banana-like "fruit" you see in elite. It's probably a thargoid seed attempting to trap you. Maybe Big Banana is supplying genetically engineered "fruit" as a means of mind control. They want to force you into believing the stupid design of the current forced pvp mechanics is worth your time. Pick open and you'll get a participation trophy of 4 bananas; but don't be fooled. Bananas are the new 5G.
 
25,352 accounts active right now as of Server Status count: https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Are you perhaps referring to Steam Numbers (which is about those you're referring to), because I'm fairly sure we're not supposed to use Steam numbers here (when citing then to refer to Elite as 'dying'), and your point gets poo-poo'd pretty quickly.

Well, despite how many times we've explained that Steam numbers are no measure for anything, they still quote them.
So something about a Goose and a Gander ;)

Looking at EVE's statistics from their site, they peaked in 2011 at 62,000. So they are down to less than half with a steady decline.
With the occasional peak after major announcements/patches. Hardly "thriving".

But then again all subscription games are suffering at the moment. Hence the bad conversions to include F2P elements.
WoW gives you level 20 free, EVE gives you T1 ships free - but if you want to progress, you have to pay up.
Warframe has lost players since it's peak in 2020, but nowhere nearly as many as others due to the fact you can play the game 100% free.

Right now, no game developer is thriving, they are at best, surviving.
 
I present the new power to be added in PP2.0

🍌🍌🍌

Bananaman_-_Beano_Superhero.jpg


The theme for those feeling nostalgic;
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK6aVsps10I
 
So there's a long-standing debate whether Powerplay 2.0 should go open only. FDEV first floated this idea years ago and have been sitting on it ever since, with the occasional vague reference to it's possible inclusion later down the line. I don't personally believe they have much intent or will to do this because of the inevitable storm it will create from the solo/group community. It's a tricky situation because FDEV won't want to drive away solo & private mode players, but they also won't want the Powerplay feature to stagnate like it did before in 1.0.

It is more plausible then that they could instate some kind of partial/hybrid system to try to appease both side of the argument (lol yeah I know... unlikely). Anyway I'll just summarise the problem so everyone understands why there are two sides here:

Solo & Private Group Players :- It's quite simple, they do not wish to be excluded from a strand of the game or feel coerced to play with potentially hostile or goofing around players, often citing the fact that player-interaction and/or PvP is an optional activity that some players do not wish to deal with.

Open Play & PvP Players : - They are attracted by unpredictable, unscripted and high-risk scenarios that can occur when there is player opposition to achieving a goal. The argument is that many players consider it unfair for a player or player group to perform hostile or invasive territory-control actions (undermining etc) from the safety of solo or private group - opting to use these modes for a tactical reason rather than a social reason and never being vulnerable to direct counter-attacks.

With these considerations in mind we could suggest the following solution:

Stronghold / Fortification and other defensive actions : Cross-mode, non-weighted (as it currently works)
Players would be able to do everything they can do now from all modes to maintain hold over their territory, nothing changes. Rewards would be equal (except the lack of being able to gain from killing enemy players ofc).

Preparation & Expansion into unclaimed systems : Cross-mode, actions weighted 2:1 in favour of open play
To expand into new, unclaimed systems, players would be able to remain in private modes, but any action performed in open-play would be double-effectiveness for PP territory metrics and personal rewards (to balance risk vs reward).

Undermining & other hostile actions vs enemy power holdings : Open-only, actions can be performed in private modes but will not affect power holdings, ranking or territory
If players wish to perform hostile actions in enemy power territory (and have it affect the powerplay metrics) then they would have to do it from open play. The gameplay loops could still be allowed from private modes, but it would be clearly communicated that this will be ineffective from a Powerplay metric perspective, not counting towards territory gain/loss and only generate a fraction of the usual merit rewards. It would only be allowed from a gameplay/practice/progression angle.


This would result in a fair balance, allow solo and private groups to participate in Powerplay, but would also prevent certain player groups from dominating PP2.0 from the safety of private modes (which is dull and puts open players off taking part). It would also allow players to more effectively patrol their own territory and fight off intruders (because those intruders would not be able to use Solo & Private modes as a covert attack route any longer).

At the very least this solution could be trialled for a few months... if it failed to generate the desired outcomes if could be reset back to normal if it failed to take off. Least they would have tried.

Note to mods - I think this idea is sufficiently different from the current mega-thread about Open Only PP, please do not merge this thread in there as it will get lost in that monster.

Well, this post belonged here and as I cannot respond to it in the new thread (that was not needed) here we go;

At least RN's idea split everything evenly amongst the modes, giving each mode a purpose.
You're just trying to lock the lion's share of the content to Open Mode and not giving the other modes a reason.

You should go and read up on RN's idea and see if you can expand on it or improve it - as so far it's that only one that's had any real chance, due to making every mode important.
 
Well, this post belonged here and as I cannot respond to it in the new thread (that was not needed) here we go;

At least RN's idea split everything evenly amongst the modes, giving each mode a purpose.
You're just trying to lock the lion's share of the content to Open Mode and not giving the other modes a reason.

You should go and read up on RN's idea and see if you can expand on it or improve it - as so far it's that only one that's had any real chance, due to making every mode important.
It was needed because it was a suggestion not a general discussion about what might happen re open only. The thread should've been moved to the suggestions subforum at the very least instead of get locked, but hey ho.

In reality I would prefer FDEV just make the whole thing locked to open... That other thread I made was an attempt to bridge the gap between opposing perspectives. But clearly nobody is interested in that..
 
The point is: Just because some game is popular and has X active players doesn't mean its features need to be in Elite. Not bananas, and not EVE.
That wasn't the point of Jack's original post that started this bout of 'player numbers and EvE-fear' discussion, which was: Dev's trying new things, shaking up established practices or instituting major changes can yield positive results in terms of playerbase numbers due to 'improving' the game.
 
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