Open-Only in PP2.0?

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Just to throw gas on fire—went to cause havoc in a peripheral Torval system for merits the other day. In open, naturally, fully expecting to get in a PvP fight or two. Never saw anyone else there, even when there was fortification progress overnight

Players simply cannot be everywhere all the time. The dangers of open are vastly overstated, you can always find a place no-one is paying attention to. And in busy systems, safety-in-numbers works for you. Even if you don't wing up the other players on your side will lessen the chance of you particularily becoming a target.

You will not see Torval players Cmdr. In one expansion off the top of my head they hauled 600k merits to a single system being undermined around the clock without being seen. Any equivalent expansion by certain other powers would be an entirely different story. That said, fortification (as opposed to expansion) involves a small amount of merits that can be completed in a short period and you'll seldom coincide with enemy Cmdrs while doing it. So indeed it is very easy to be very active in powerplay but choose your targets to minimise contacts.

When someone (I assume it was "someone"s - people - because it was intentionally invisible, no-one knows how the accounts were controlled in fact) hauls 600k merits to a system it's because it really matters. And likewise the advantage that someone gets from doing so in solo/PG really matters too. Such episodes are perhaps the biggest reason why I think the modes need to be properly balanced.

 

[DemiserofD]

You will not see Torval players Cmdr. In one expansion off the top of my head they hauled 600k merits to a single system being undermined around the clock without being seen. Any equivalent expansion by certain other powers would be an entirely different story. That said, fortification (as opposed to expansion) involves a small amount of merits that can be completed in a short period and you'll seldom coincide with enemy Cmdrs while doing it. So indeed it is very easy to be very active in powerplay but choose your targets to minimise contacts.

When someone (I assume it was "someone"s - people - because it was intentionally invisible, no-one knows how the accounts were controlled in fact) hauls 600k merits to a system it's because it really matters. And likewise the advantage that someone gets from doing so in solo/PG really matters too. Such episodes are perhaps the biggest reason why I think the modes need to be properly balanced.

How would you solve the problem of being able to dump all of your exploration or combat data in a single trip?

That's one reason why I think this isn't going to be a reasonable thing in the long term.

 

[Rubbernuke]

How would you solve the problem of being able to dump all of your exploration or combat data in a single trip?

That's one reason why I think this isn't going to be a reasonable thing in the long term.

Given data is lost totally on destruction its not that unbalanced.

Plus you have to be out and about collecting it, which means you are not at home most of the time if something goes wrong. I used to collect passively but eventually you run out of systems to scan and have to move further out.

 

[DemiserofD]

I'm kinda hoping powers like LYR will mostly be composed of explorers, honestly. I can imagine a team of a few hundred or thousand players exploring, where each week they send a few dozen back home to drop off their data(accrued over weeks or months) in a few specific target systems. Most of their players would be outside the bubble at any given time.

I'd like to see Powers be more or less divided down activity lines like that, so they can help you find other like-minded players.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm kinda hoping powers like LYR will mostly be composed of explorers, honestly. I can imagine a team of a few hundred or thousand players exploring, where each week they send a few dozen back home to drop off their data(accrued over weeks or months) in a few specific target systems. Most of their players would be outside the bubble at any given time.

I'd like to see Powers be more or less divided down activity lines like that, so they can help you find other like-minded players.

If the bonus situation stays as it is, with 2.0 you may very well get that- although you'll have the same gambit coming back.

The issue will be liquidity and availability of data- a frenzied attack will soak it all up firefighting that might force a more aggressive response.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

How would you solve the problem of being able to dump all of your exploration or combat data in a single trip?

That's one reason why I think this isn't going to be a reasonable thing in the long term.

I assume you're talking about PP2.0? As with BGS, I don't think exploration data is going to be the meta for PP. Combat is set to contribute as it's done, like in the Thargoid war.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

I'm kinda hoping powers like LYR will mostly be composed of explorers, honestly. I can imagine a team of a few hundred or thousand players exploring, where each week they send a few dozen back home to drop off their data(accrued over weeks or months) in a few specific target systems. Most of their players would be outside the bubble at any given time.

I'd like to see Powers be more or less divided down activity lines like that, so they can help you find other like-minded players.

I can't imagine many players wanting to be forced to focus on one activity at the expense of all others. Certainly not enough to revive PP. The whole selling point of PP is the diversity of activities to keep you interested (even right now with PP1.0 because it co-opts the BGS).

 

[Rubbernuke]

I assume you're talking about PP2.0? As with BGS, I don't think exploration data is going to be the meta for PP. Combat is set to contribute as it's done, like in the Thargoid war.

Exploration data was shown as one way to undermine / fortify between LYR and Cobalt Royalty in FU #4.

 

[DemiserofD]

I assume you're talking about PP2.0? As with BGS, I don't think exploration data is going to be the meta for PP. Combat is set to contribute as it's done, like in the Thargoid war.

I'm just basing it on the fact 'turn in exploration data' was listed as a way to contribute. They also said that all activities will contribute, but that some activities related to your Power will contribute more.

I read this as powers will have a focus activity that will do more for them than other powers, so players who enjoy that sort of thing will naturally congregate there. So it might be exploration for LYR, or Mining for Torval, or Piracy for whatshisface, burger man.

I can't imagine many players wanting to be forced to focus on one activity at the expense of all others. Certainly not enough to revive PP. The whole selling point of PP is the diversity of activities to keep you interested (even right now with PP1.0 because it co-opts the BGS).

I see it more from the opposite perspective. There are quite a few players who mostly enjoy one thing; explorers who explore for years without coming home, for example, or miners who mine tritium even though it really doesn't make much sense to do so instead of buying it.

These people are ALREADY doing these things, so it's not really at the expense of anything, it just lets them take what they're already doing and dedicate it towards a higher cause. And, of course, gives them a reason to do other things, things they might not normally enjoy as much without a reason to do it.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

I'm just basing it on the fact 'turn in exploration data' was listed as a way to contribute. They also said that all activities will contribute, but that some activities related to your Power will contribute more.

I read this as powers will have a focus activity that will do more for them than other powers, so players who enjoy that sort of thing will naturally congregate there. So it might be exploration for LYR, or Mining for Torval, or Piracy for whatshisface, burger man.

Sounds like a great way to make a massively imbalanced system. I thought we were trying to solve PP1.0's issues with 2.0?

I see it more from the opposite perspective. There are quite a few players who mostly enjoy one thing; explorers who explore for years without coming home, for example, or miners who mine tritium even though it really doesn't make much sense to do so instead of buying it.

These people are ALREADY doing these things, so it's not really at the expense of anything, it just lets them take what they're already doing and dedicate it towards a higher cause. And, of course, gives them a reason to do other things, things they might not normally enjoy as much without a reason to do it.

The vast majority don't specialise. You want a lot of people to take part. They've been very clear about a diversity of activities being available compared to PP1.0. Enhancing certain activities makes some sense but they shouldn't be elevated to the level of exploits. Again, we're trying ro fix PP1.0's exploit-rich environment.

 

[DemiserofD]

Sounds like a great way to make a massively imbalanced system. I thought we were trying to solve PP1.0's issues with 2.0?

The vast majority don't specialise. You want a lot of people to take part. They've been very clear about a diversity of activities being available compared to PP1.0. Enhancing certain activities makes some sense but they shouldn't be elevated to the level of exploits. Again, we're trying ro fix PP1.0's exploit-rich environment.

You think? Seems to me most players specialize in something, if they stick around for long.

Like for me, I've done 98% AX since the war started. Most streamers likewise seem to more or less follow a theme, like AX, or mining, etc.

I don't think it'll be like 10x, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 2x. So one side is encouraged to fit the theme of their patron. Wouldn't make much sense to have, say, a bunch of Aisling followers going around murdering people when she's all about peace and modernity. Same goes for Delaine, wouldn't make sense for most of his players to be doing search and rescue to win. They're pirates, they should be pirating.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

You think? Seems to me most players specialize in something, if they stick around for long.

I do yes.

Like for me, I've done 98% AX since the war started. Most streamers likewise seem to more or less follow a theme, like AX, or mining, etc.

I'm not saying no-one specialises of course.

I don't think it'll be like 10x, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 2x. So one side is encouraged to fit the theme of their patron. Wouldn't make much sense to have, say, a bunch of Aisling followers going around murdering people when she's all about peace and modernity. Same goes for Delaine, wouldn't make sense for most of his players to be doing search and rescue to win. They're pirates, they should be pirating.

Aisling is all about appearances I think everyone knows . A 2x multiplier for a specialism doesn't seem outlandish though. But it's still going lead to imbalances IMO, we're not just talking different credit rewards like some of the current powers give.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If you are influencing the Open galaxy while playing Solo, you are cheating.
If you are influencing the Open galaxy while playing in a Private Group, you are cheating.

One of the good things FD did in relation to the forums was to remove the dislike button, but on occasion, an opinion is so stupid i wish it was still there.

You are free to dislike how the game works, but disliking how the game works does not mean people who play it in the way it is designed are cheating.

Now, if the game was open only, and someone used port blocking or some other tool to get a solo experience, then yes, that would be cheating. But the game is (currently) designed to allow it, ergo, not cheating.

If FD make PP2.0 open only, then so be it, if they don't, then people continue playing PP in PG/solo, then they are playing the game as designed.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I assume you're talking about PP2.0? As with BGS, I don't think exploration data is going to be the meta for PP. Combat is set to contribute as it's done, like in the Thargoid war.

Now I've got a mental image of you lot flying around trying to sample each other...

 

[angusmadmac1]

You will not see Torval players Cmdr. In one expansion off the top of my head they hauled 600k merits to a single system being undermined around the clock without being seen. Any equivalent expansion by certain other powers would be an entirely different story. That said, fortification (as opposed to expansion) involves a small amount of merits that can be completed in a short period and you'll seldom coincide with enemy Cmdrs while doing it. So indeed it is very easy to be very active in powerplay but choose your targets to minimise contacts.

When someone (I assume it was "someone"s - people - because it was intentionally invisible, no-one knows how the accounts were controlled in fact) hauls 600k merits to a system it's because it really matters. And likewise the advantage that someone gets from doing so in solo/PG really matters too. Such episodes are perhaps the biggest reason why I think the modes need to be properly balanced.

Given that instancing in Elite is terrible and that the said torval commanders could have been in a different timezone? Or even they may well have been shift workers ? It's not just because they were playing in an PG or Solo mode, so it could be down to game design? But it's far easier to blame the" bad" players than the game.

Why do the majority of people do PP ? To get the modules . Get rid of the modules or move them out of PP and let those who enjoy PP play it to their rules it becomes a win win for all.

 

[SergMx]

Why do the majority of people do PP ? To get the modules . Get rid of the modules or move them out of PP and let those who enjoy PP play it to their rules it becomes a win win for all.

I like PP and play it in single player mode. Are you calling to limit the game for me ?

P.S. I think when people claim that PP is only played for modules, they are completely ignorant of what PP is.

 

[Rebel Yell]

You will not see Torval players Cmdr. In one expansion off the top of my head they hauled 600k merits to a single system being undermined around the clock without being seen. Any equivalent expansion by certain other powers would be an entirely different story. That said, fortification (as opposed to expansion) involves a small amount of merits that can be completed in a short period and you'll seldom coincide with enemy Cmdrs while doing it. So indeed it is very easy to be very active in powerplay but choose your targets to minimise contacts.

When someone (I assume it was "someone"s - people - because it was intentionally invisible, no-one knows how the accounts were controlled in fact) hauls 600k merits to a system it's because it really matters. And likewise the advantage that someone gets from doing so in solo/PG really matters too. Such episodes are perhaps the biggest reason why I think the modes need to be properly balanced.

600.000 merits hauled is one to one with tons, so it's like 800 trips with a 750t hauler (average tonnage).

10 CMDRs hauling = 80 trips = 11-12 trips/day ...these CMDRs should have been tremendously sneaky indeed.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Why do the majority of people do PP ? To get the modules . Get rid of the modules or move them out of PP and let those who enjoy PP play it to their rules it becomes a win win for all.

The impact of "module shoppers" to PP is unrelevant (if not even a source of additional problems for the PP community managers).

 

[SergMx]

The impact of "module shoppers" to PP is unrelevant (if not even a source of additional problems for the PP community managers).

Part of that is not true.

Explanation. I play a miner, I'll step into a miner PP, get a spear, and get more from mining quests.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Given that instancing in Elite is terrible and that the said torval commanders could have been in a different timezone? Or even they may well have been shift workers ? It's not just because they were playing in an PG or Solo mode, so it could be down to game design? But it's far easier to blame the" bad" players than the game.

Why do the majority of people do PP ? To get the modules . Get rid of the modules or move them out of PP and let those who enjoy PP play it to their rules it becomes a win win for all.

That's some hard straw-clutching. 600,000 tons hauled, most of it concentrated in a late sprint. That's 1000 trips. The large groups like mine span all timezones so that's not a get-out. When we do 600k there are pitched battles for a week. It's not possible to hide that much activity without using out-of-context means. The group that do that hauling for Torval are intentionally secretive (because they're co-opting a relatively dormant power with a small player base as a weapon against another, which has bad optics, and they don't want their accounts to be nameable). At one time they organised in a squadron but that's too identifiable via leaderboard scores so they use unaffiliated accounts now afaik.