Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Jockey79]

And I'd agree with you for the wider game.

The issue will always be making PP work for the modes, which means making a proper NPC response. V2 has a chance here given its per system, so its scaled correctly for 4.X NPCs. But the response has (at the top end for the Top 10 or so aces) got to equate to having player like NPCs, given a power would target such people.

I would love proper NPCs, I understand that in the wider game, the NPCs have to be slightly easier due to the varying level of skill of the players.
But PP is a more focused style of gameplay compared to the rest of the game, and the NPCs should reflect that in my opinion.

The shields on my T9 and my Cutter are the weakest ones I can fit, and they are not there to protect me from the NPCs. They are there for when I get tired and my landing becomes a little rough (I've been known to damage my own ship: don't fly when tired! lol).

So overhauling the NPC's for Power Play I'm 100% with you.

I also think the toys need looking at as well. I really don't like how people can just jump from power to power collecting the toys and moving on.
If you walk away from a power, their toys should stop working.
(all powers should have their own version of every toy, with their own faction twist to it - so you can get all toys from a single power)

 

[Rubbernuke]

I would love proper NPCs, I understand that in the wider game, the NPCs have to be slightly easier due to the varying level of skill of the players.
But PP is a more focused style of gameplay compared to the rest of the game, and the NPCs should reflect that in my opinion.

The shields on my T9 and my Cutter are the weakest ones I can fit, and they are not there to protect me from the NPCs. They are there for when I get tired and my landing becomes a little rough (I've been known to damage my own ship: don't fly when tired! lol).

So overhauling the NPC's for Power Play I'm 100% with you.

I also think the toys need looking at as well. I really don't like how people can just jump from power to power collecting the toys and moving on.
If you walk away from a power, their toys should stop working.
(all powers should have their own version of every toy, with their own faction twist to it - so you can get all toys from a single power)

If you properly grade it, you'd have an excellent system.

PP V2 has (from what I understand) the whole (or most of) the BGS inputs so activity for a governing faction helps. What I expect to see here is more roving NPCs that are PP agents coming for you proactively based on effort for that cycle. You also have expansions and contested expansions- here the same should apply with harder and harder NPCs trying to disrupt the flow of material. Lastly you have strongholds, which should (IMO) be like 2.X BGS under lockdown- roving navy ships that really do defend areas such as FCs and supply vessels.

I can imagine some people might say roving NPCs are a nuisance- however for it to be an effective 'simulation' of having other powers its required- and that in V2 since you know who is UMing NPCs could be tailored to that rival.

Having an open weight / bonus in this context could be seen as the Golden Snitch of Harry Potter- lots of effort involved but if you are up against it might give you the edge.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Can anyone point me to the rough timings in the FU (lol) videos where they talk about the BGS? I'm pressed for time tonight and want to understand how the devs see it interacting with PowerPlay.

 

[Jockey79]

If you properly grade it, you'd have an excellent system.

PP V2 has (from what I understand) the whole (or most of) the BGS inputs so activity for a governing faction helps. What I expect to see here is more roving NPCs that are PP agents coming for you proactively based on effort for that cycle. You also have expansions and contested expansions- here the same should apply with harder and harder NPCs trying to disrupt the flow of material. Lastly you have strongholds, which should (IMO) be like 2.X BGS under lockdown- roving navy ships that really do defend areas such as FCs and supply vessels.

I can imagine some people might say roving NPCs are a nuisance- however for it to be an effective 'simulation' of having other powers its required- and that in V2 since you know who is UMing NPCs could be tailored to that rival.

Having an open weight / bonus in this context could be seen as the Golden Snitch of Harry Potter- lots of effort involved but if you are up against it might give you the edge.

Right up until the last line sounds great.

If any mode receives a bonus over the other modes then I'm out.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Right up until the last line sounds great.

If any mode receives a bonus over the other modes then I'm out.

I know you dislike Open, but it does need a place in the progression because it goes beyond (not unless its super crazy) the hypothetical top end of NPCs. Like it or not it does require a much more honed set of specific skills.

This way its a choice, but also a gamble since you can also be stopped doing it. Also if the top end is that hard, it would then make co-op more of a thing, sort of a modified version of this idea https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...werplay-where-teamplay-means-survival.524174/

 

[Jockey79]

I know you dislike Open, but it does need a place in the progression because it goes beyond (not unless its super crazy) the hypothetical top end of NPCs. Like it or not it does require a much more honed set of specific skills.

This way its a choice, but also a gamble since you can also be stopped doing it. Also if the top end is that hard, it would then make co-op more of a thing, sort of a modified version of this idea https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...werplay-where-teamplay-means-survival.524174/

I'm not sure where you got the idea I don't like Open, I play in Open when the mood takes me. I use all the modes actually, depending on what I'm doing and if I'm in the mood to socialise or not.

For the most part, I see more people in the Mobius PG than I do in Open Mode when wandering around the bubble. Due to how the instancing works and how it weights your encounters, PG's are way busier than Open as I'm on a slower connection (which makes busy PG's very laggy for me).

So for CG's / Events I use Solo, for chilled social play I use Mobius and for random wandering and testing new builds I use Open.

I dislike the idea one mode should be given special treatment - regardless of which mode it is.

 

[Lateralus]

It was not designed as a consenual PvP system. It's designed as a dynamic influence system. Whether that be via pvp or pve.

The lead designer literally said it in a livestream... I wish everyone would stop making up their own narratives.

Here, 8:00 - 9:20 is where he clarifies it as 'most importantly, allows consensual pvp. Then he goes on to talk about being directly attacked in open.

https://www.youtube.com/live/zoTnEZng-V8?si=0IEokMknxYxjxyMU

Sorry if the link doesn't show video embedded, my phone doesnt seem to want to allow me to get the embed link for FDEVs fussy text editor...

 

[Robert Maynard]

The lead designer literally said it in a livestream... I wish everyone would stop making up their own narratives.

Here, 8:00 - 9:20 is where he clarifies it as 'most importantly, allows consensual pvp. Then he goes on to talk about being directly attacked in open.

https://www.youtube.com/live/zoTnEZng-V8?si=0IEokMknxYxjxyMU

Sorry if the link doesn't show video embedded, my phone doesnt seem to want to allow me to get the embed link for FDEVs fussy text editor...

While Powerplay v1 has always allowed consensual PvP it is not a requirement of the feature - Powerplay v1 has always been a pan-modal game feature.

Added video at c.8:00:

Source: https://youtu.be/zoTnEZng-V8?t=472

 

[Lateralus]

While Powerplay v1 has always allowed consensual PvP it is not a requirement of the feature - Powerplay v1 has always been a pan-modal game feature.

Added video at c.8:00:

Source: https://youtu.be/zoTnEZng-V8?t=472

My response was to someone stating falsehoods. Sandro was quite clear in that livestream about what Powerplay was designed for.

People keep trying to suggest here that direct consensual pvp was not the intention of powerplay... which is quite clearly incorrect based on Sandros comments in that stream. Encouraging players to fight directly was clearly a key part of the features intention.

 

[Jockey79]

While Powerplay v1 has always allowed consensual PvP it is not a requirement of the feature
Source: https://youtu.be/zoTnEZng-V8?t=472

Louder for those at the back.

Optional PvP. PP gives an excuse to shoot other players, it isn't a requirement of PP

 

[heathenlamb]

The lead designer literally said it in a livestream... I wish everyone would stop making up their own narratives.

Here, 8:00 - 9:20 is where he clarifies it as 'most importantly, allows consensual pvp. Then he goes on to talk about being directly attacked in open.

https://www.youtube.com/live/zoTnEZng-V8?si=0IEokMknxYxjxyMU

Sorry if the link doesn't show video embedded, my phone doesnt seem to want to allow me to get the embed link for FDEVs fussy text editor...

lol ... like the narrative you made up ... saying something ALLOWS consensual PvP is a far cry from saying it is specifically designed for PvP ... it is self evident that is is not ... why ... because it is available in modes that DON'T have PvP ... it's not rocket science.

"It's player authoured, galactic wide, dynamic content ...that ALLOWS PvP".

See my original comment -
"It's designed as a dynamic influence system. Whether that be via pvp or pve."

... or maybe just watch the videos you post.

 

[Lateralus]

lol ... like the narrative you made up ... saying something ALLOWS consensual PvP is a far cry from saying it is specifically designed for PvP ... it is self evident that is is not ... why ... because it is available in modes that DON'T have PvP ... it's not rocket science.

"It's player authoured, galatic wide, dynamic content ...that ALLOWS PvP".

See my orignal comment ... or maybe just watch the videos you post.

"Most Importantly, it allows consensual pvp"

He then gives examples of being attacked in open... not grinding and counter grinding in different modes.

 

[heathenlamb]

"Most Importantly, it allows consensual pvp"

He then gives examples of being attacked in open... not grinding and counter grinding in different modes.

Yes ... ALLOWS.

 

[Jockey79]

"Most Importantly, it allows consensual pvp"

He then gives examples of being attacked in open... not grinding and counter grinding in different modes.

Please show me where he said people not interested in PvP would be forced to PvP.

 

[Lateralus]

Please show me where he said people not interested in PvP would be forced to PvP.

Why do you keep saying this? Who is forced to PvP? And why would they be?

Powerplay is designed to be an optional system that you do not have to engage with. If FDEV were to make it open only or heavily weighted to open, the Solution is to not pledge - players are never forced to get involved in PP.

The 2nd BGS powerplay design we have currently failed in what it was designed for because of it's mode equality. If someone logs in to engage in organic powerplay-based pvp, they are unlikely to find any due to the size of the play area, relative to how many players are actually online doing PP activities in open, the chances of finding actual opponents are miniscule. Removing the mode issue increases the chances of combat sisignificantly.

If they also added live alerts to enemy activity in your powers' territory it could become a hugely engaging feature.

This is my experience of playing Powerplay in open over the last 9 years anyway... I know there have been the odd open play flashpoints over the years, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Jockey79]

Why do you keep saying this?

Because you keep implying PP is for PvP only.

It isn't, PP has an optional PvP component. There is a difference you keep skipping over.

Who is forced to PvP? And why would they be?

Anyone who likes to chill out while playing, suddenly has their efforts become worthless due to Open play being treated differently.
So for them to gain the same rewards, they'd be FORCED to play in Open mode and PvP.

Powerplay is designed to be an optional system that you do not have to engage with.

And PvP or playing with other players is an optional system in the game as well. And always has been.
We do not have to play with you if we do not want to play with you - you are an optional component in my game.

If FDEV were to make it open only or heavily weighted to open, the Solution is to not pledge - players are never forced to get involved in PP.

So if I don't want to be your victim, I'm not allowed to play some of the game content?

I don't need to answer the rest of your post, now I know just how entitled you are.
Newsflash, I paid for the same game you did, so I'm just as entitled to the content.
And Frontier has so far added all content equally in all modes - think that over.

 

[heathenlamb]

If someone logs in to engage in organic powerplay-based pvp, they are unlikely to find any due to the size of the play area, relative to how many players are actually online doing PP activities in open, the chances of finding actual opponents are miniscule

Think about that.

 

[Robert Maynard]

My response was to someone stating falsehoods. Sandro was quite clear in that livestream about what Powerplay was designed for.

People keep trying to suggest here that direct consensual pvp was not the intention of powerplay... which is quite clearly incorrect based on Sandros comments in that stream. Encouraging players to fight directly was clearly a key part of the features intention.

Noting that he went on to say (my emphasis) here:

Sandro: "... but importantly, most important of all, it allows consensual PvP OK, so that at it's core it's a way for players to work together against other players in teams and that's probably going to crop up a couple of times in the questions as to why we've done some of the things the way we've done them. So that's why we've done it, OK, that's what it is in a nutshell, but how do you do it, I suppose? That's what you all need to know.

Ed: Apart from a lot of people who don't know. Again if you do want to ask questions in the chat as well I'm sure Sandy will be checking the chat and we're going to do those as well to get some questions on there as well."

Sandro: "In fact we'll start with one right now: Misaniovent saying 'It allows consensual PvP, what?'. It does because you have to actively sign up to Powerplay, so you have to go out on a limb and say 'no, I'm in this' and by doing so you are accepting the fact that you can be attacked in Open by players of opposing Powers, so that's why it is consensual."

i.e. if players pledged to a Power play in Open then they may be attacked by other players. Also noting that Powerplay then, as now, did not require any player to engage in Powerplay in Open.

 

[Lateralus]

Because you keep implying PP is for PvP only.

It isn't, PP has an optional PvP component. There is a difference you keep skipping over.



Anyone who likes to chill out while playing, suddenly has their efforts become worthless due to Open play being treated differently.
So for them to gain the same rewards, they'd be FORCED to play in Open mode and PvP.



And PvP or playing with other players is an optional system in the game as well. And always has been.
We do not have to play with you if we do not want to play with you - you are an optional component in my game.



So if I don't want to be your victim, I'm not allowed to play some of the game content?

I don't need to answer the rest of your post, now I know just how entitled you are.
Newsflash, I paid for the same game you did, so I'm just as entitled to the content.
And Frontier has so far added all content equally in all modes - think that over.

This is a thread about Open only for PP 2.0... a valid topic which FDEV have in the past suggested themselves. Its a shame you can't discuss it without getting emotional...

Don't worry though, when it comes to anything encouraging open play, FDEV always bottle it.

 

[Lateralus]

Noting that he went on to say (my emphasis) here:

i.e. if players pledged to a Power play in Open then they may be attacked by other players. Also noting that Powerplay then, as now, did not require any player to engage in Powerplay in Open.

My original post said that they designed Powerplay to encourage consentual PVP. Another poster then suggested this was not the case, which I then debunked with a livestream clip from Sandro.

At no point did I suggest that Sandro said players have to play Powerplay in open as it stands. That's what this thread is debating for PP 2.0 yes?