I have 40b put aside, that just keeps going up, yes for maybe newer players a bonus would be an incentive, but even without incentives most players who have been here for a few years already have more in-game money than they will ever spend, I do know players who have trillions, bonuses for playing in open wouldn't affect me at all since I already play in open all the time, but I don't do PP or bother with the BGS because I am simply not interested, and anything that pushes me toward PvP is just ignored because again I am simply not interested.
Open-Only in PP2.0?
- Thread starter August Lagrange
- Start date
I have 40b put aside, that just keeps going up, yes for maybe newer players a bonus would be an incentive, but even without incentives most players who have been here for a few years already have more in-game money than they will ever spend, I do know players who have trillions, bonuses for playing in open wouldn't affect me at all since I already play in open all the time, but I don't do PP or bother with the BGS because I am simply not interested, and anything that pushes me toward PvP is just ignored because again I am simply not interested.
The question is, based on your solo/PG experience, which seems to be satisfying enough, what would be the issue if those involved in unfair competition (BGS/PP) received a multiplier for actions performed entirely in Open Play ?
I think it’s important to first identify what exactly the main annoyance or concern is. Once that’s clear, it’ll be easier to see if a compromise can be reached that satisfies all sides. Just being against changes for the sake of it doesn’t help anyone, especially in a community driven game like ED. Maybe a multiplier for actions in Open could be a way to reward risk takers without alienating those who enjoy Solo or PG, but the nuances of that system would need to be carefully thought out to ensure fairness for all modes.
What is "unfair competition" in this context?
All modes are equal, once you star pushing the position that some modes are more equal than others it never stops, no matter how asymmetric it gets between solo and open there will always be people pushing for more Open Only. There have in fact been plenty of players in the past who have requested, even demanded, that solo and PG modes be dispensed with altogether and only Open be left. Basically it never ends, just that little bit more please, they keep asking. All modes are equal, all modes affect the galaxy!
Operation Wycherley Hunt just evicted Azimuth from Xi Wangda. Both my main and alt participated in open, there were probably Azimuth Cmdrs in the system (or at least their carriers were) and Azimuth's economy was getting positive influence. I didn't actually spot any of the Pro-Azimuth Cmdrs and apparently neither did the other members of OWH.
In the end it mattered not, Azimuth is gone from the system.
Other members of OWH did their part in PG, I wasn't particularly interested in having a direct confrontation with the Pro-Azimuth Cmdrs though it might have shaved a day or two off the eviction.
Open Only for BGS is a non-starter.
Frankly the only real argument for Open Only in PP is the bots thing.
I understand the concern that once a change is made, some will always push for more. But the key question is: what makes the current system truly fair for everyone? It’s not about saying one mode is ‘more equal’ than another, but recognizing that playing in Open carries more risks compared to Solo or PG, and maybe that deserves a small incentive without undermining the value of the other modes.
That said, it's important not to polarize the discussion: the goal isn't to eliminate Solo or PG, but to find a balance that makes all modes more enjoyable for different types of players. I just want to enjoy PP and BGS in Open without being at a disadvantage, but it’s not my intention to force anyone to play in Open or ruin their experience in Solo/PG
'unfair competition' refers to the idea that players in Solo or PG can influence PP and BGS without the risk of being attacked by other players, which is something that those in Open have to deal with. The argument is that this creates an imbalance, as players in Open are exposed to greater risks while trying to achieve the same objectives. It’s not about accusing anyone of cheating, but rather pointing out that the different modes come with different levels of challenge when interacting with these systems.
Which we just demonstrated is false at Xi Wangda!
Frankly this is ridiculous. All players have the same options and choices, so any perceived "unfairness" is freely chosen by its victims.
Wanting a rebalance is reasonable (though unnecessary IMO) but characterising legitimate player choices, which are available to anyone participating in the features you mention (BGS/PP), as "unfair" is no justification for it, and insulting to boot (intentionally or otherwise.)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Those in Open only "have to deal with the risk of being attacked by other players" because they choose to play in Open - so it's more accurate to say that those in Open "choose to deal with the risk of being attacked by other players" - then they want a special reward for their choice.
Noting that there's nothing "unfair" about not engaging in PvP while affecting mode shared game features when the game is literally designed around a mode shared galaxy where other players, and therefore PvP, are optional extras - except in the opinion of those who prefer PvP and can't accept that others don't need to engage in it / can't be forced to engage in it.
Hey, I've only just figured out that I can stimulate more massive payout mining missions for shelf bought items, buy keeping folk in the system happy! Why shouldn't I be able to do this in solo or group mode as well as in open? To even suggest such seems to me to be demonstrating a complete lack of understanding as to how fundamental the BGS is to all modes. I get the impression that Powerplay is icing on the top of the BGS, so can't imagine that it would be even possible to mode lock one without thwarting the other.
And that only helps your power if its under circumstances that actually makes the numbers move. For example, if CZs can affect PP (or CZ missions to kill X number of enemies), then killing an opponent will count as 1 towards the number of kills that needs to be made, but even then, they get to keep their kills made already, and you can kill NPCs a hell of a lot quicker.
If the opposing PP player is attacked when they aren't even doing anything PP related, then the attacker has effectively wasted their time, at least in terms of PP.
If the opposing PP player is doing a mission that would affect the numbers, then you will slow them down a bit, and its possible they will lose the mission (depending on the mission). You don't make your numbers go up, but you do delay the oppositions numbers going up. If they have a mission that can be continued after death, then they just restart and go again, perhaps this time avoiding those who attacked them.
But those hanging around simply looking for PvP kills will never make their own numbers go up. At best just delay an opponent.
But then, if we consider PvPers going after those opposing them, they are happy not helping their own power's numbers go up, just delaying/stopping others, that would be reasonable PP gameplay, a worthy goal, if that's how they want to spend their time. But then who is actually making the numbers go up on your side? Right, those who are doing the same as the people you are attacking. So, don't the people on your side also need defending against opposing PvPers? Should you really be spending your time looking for opposing PPers or would it be better escorting those on your side to protect them?
A lot of these discussions about PvP are framed in the context of gankboat(s) getting their gank on against opposing players flying non-combat ships.
Never (? or almost never) do we see PvPers talking about escorting their own non-combat ships who are trying to help their power.
Except for when you allow shield regeneration lasers, in which case the dynamic changes completely.
Ssshhhh... we don't remind FD that 50 million payout missions exist for mining gold and silver that can be bought on the market!
I ment to reply to this post, what you say is true to an extent, but when you allow shield regeneration lasers, the dynamics get a proverbial spanner in the works.
We've seen that happening quite often instead...
Mum's the word! Not that I'm entirely sure what that means, but I really don't want to rock this boat!
Sorry, in what situation are you at a disadvantage?
If you're flying a combat ship, why are you at a disadvantage against other players? Do you need to git gud? :O
If you're not in a combat ship... oh, wait, let me guess, you don't want to do non-PvP activities? Well, let assume you do, i've been assured many times that its perfectly possible to survive any PvP encounter in a non-combat ship, you just need to checks notes git gud.
Let me ask you directly though, what activities do you want to do in PP that makes you think you'll be at a disadvantage?
We've seen that happening quite often instead...
Discussed on this forum? Interesting, never seen it in these sorts of discussion. Still, we are at over 100 pages now, easy for me to have missed.
Or you mean it actually happens in game? PvPers escorting a trade ship? Really? Pinky swear? I find it hard to believe that PvPers will happily babysit a trade ship as it flies back and forth and most of the time you're going to be sat doing nothing.
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Because it is, you can have exactly the same affect on the game as those players who play in solo and haul, just go to solo and haul, your efforts will directly oppose them. What? Don't want to go to solo? Fancy that, they don't want to come to Open! But they aren't trying to force/encourage you to play solo!