Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Agony_Aunt]

There really isn't anything :/ In cockpit space combat, decently high skill ceiling, open world with smooth transitions between space and atmospheric fighting. Hard to explain but genuinely nothing exists that comes close. When it works it's really good. There have been periods (usually between patches) where SC was really stable and everything worked quite smoothly.

"When it works" and the time to prepare is the kicker though. Why put yourself through that when you could dive into a plethora of PvP games and actually enjoy your time rather than spend hours setting up or dying to bugs? Games are meant to be fun, not a test of patience.

I mean, yeah, if you really want to limit yourself to cockpit space combat then the choices are slim. But there are "cockpit" based PvP games out there, there are high skill ceiling PvP games out there, all of which you can dive into and actually enjoy immediately.

 

[Venan]

What do you mean? I went out exploring. I went from blasting spaceships to exploring the galaxy. I was a criminal that had to lie low after committing crimes. That's meaning/purpose. I enjoy exploration so I didn't do it begrudgingly.

I'm done with the rest but I can't let this one go. You blew up some players and then conveniently left to another space to do an activity you can already do without debt or issue. Yeah man, you sure showed them and boy did those kills have meaning and purpose! Ho boy it was sure hard to navigate to an empty system in a game full of empty systems to "lay low". Boy oh boy next thing you're gonna tell me is you managed to get away from pirates whlie mining when they scanned you full of equipment! Boy howdy imagine if you could just hit supercruise and leave them in the dust or go to another system so easily.

I'm sorry but I have never seen a worse case of rose tinted glasses before. No, that wasn't meaning or purpose. You did something you believe is meaningful subjectively by killing another player. There was no reward the game gave you for this and the consequences you were given being there or not made no difference in the grand scheme of you going out to explore or not. You could do this with or without killing players, "laying low" means not being in the same system for a few hours. Wow buddy that's really meaningful gameplay right there... you sure showed them by going anywhere else in the whole game! There is absolutely no way you're going to say your exploration was different because now you had a bounty when it literally changed only what was in that system and AI randomly pulling you over. You didn't lay low, you played somewhere else and masked it as a criminal masterpiece LMAO. G'bye.

"When it works" and the time to prepare is the kicker though. Why put yourself through that when you could dive into a plethora of PvP games and actually enjoy your time rather than spend hours setting up or dying to bugs? Games are meant to be fun, not a test of patience.

I mean, yeah, if you really want to limit yourself to cockpit space combat then the choices are slim. But there are "cockpit" based PvP games out there, there are high skill ceiling PvP games out there, all of which you can dive into and actually enjoy immediately.

You are a gem commander. Someone understands their time is precious and should be worthwhile. There are so many games that offer experiences that respect your time and money. Unfortunately I don't think the community sees it this way. They're content to believe that "nothing" is an activity and at this point I'm convinced there is no forward progression from here to that. If they like the baseline just being flying when the game advertises an open space to affect (when you don't really) then... I guess it's all theirs to enjoy it that way? Idk, I don't see people wanting change in this game, I see content and settling for mediocrity because it's easier and cheaper.

 

[ꝁestrel]

"When it works" and the time to prepare is the kicker though. Why put yourself through that when you could dive into a plethora of PvP games and actually enjoy your time rather than spend hours setting up or dying to bugs? Games are meant to be fun, not a test of patience.

Well those are big space battles (50v50+, highest I've done is 70v70) which don't happen often, are absolutely epic, but a huge pain in the ass.

More commonly you'll have a wingman or two and get into organic 2v2 and 3v3 brawls around various contested areas. I haven't played in year but before that it was my main game. I rarely had issues. I could go from logging in to having fights in 15 minutes easy. It wasn't a test of patience at all.

BUT in order to get to that point you have to know what to avoid. Like never setting your spawn point in cities or highly trafficked stations. Setting your spawn in the outskirts (adds like 2 min travel time) alleviates almost all spawn issues.

Not saying it's perfect but it gives you an experience you can't have anywhere else. If you really want that then you figure out how things work and enjoy it. If you don't then you wait till it's stable. Simple as that.

 

[ꝁestrel]

I'm done with the rest but I can't let this one go. You blew up some players and then conveniently left to another space to do an activity you can already do without debt or issue. Yeah man, you sure showed them and boy did those kills have meaning and purpose! Ho boy it was sure hard to navigate to an empty system in a game full of empty systems to "lay low". Boy oh boy next thing you're gonna tell me is you managed to get away from pirates whlie mining when they scanned you full of equipment! Boy howdy imagine if you could just hit supercruise and leave them in the dust or go to another system so easily.

I wasn't trying to show anyone anything. Just playing the game and having fun.

Video games are supposed to be fun. There's no higher purpose than that. If you logged in, had a good time, and logged off happy that's all that matters my guy. If I don't have fun I play something else.

You didn't lay low, you played somewhere else and masked it as a criminal masterpiece LMAO. G'bye.

I'm not sure where you got the "criminal masterpiece" bit.

The goal wasn't to kill other players. The goal was to reduce my Sirius Corporation rank which is why I was attacking NPC ships in Procyon. I just happened to see CMDRs and figured I'd blow them up too. One was a shieldless T9 which is too juicy to not blow up IIRC another guy was in an FAS but probably fitted for PvE. After that I hung around to see if anyone would come back to for vengeance and they didn't. Sometimes people do come back and we get some good fights in.

If they like the baseline just being flying when the game advertises an open space to affect (when you don't really) then... I guess it's all theirs to enjoy it that way?

You're totally right here and I agree that the marketing is very misleading. From the Elite homepage: "Here battles rage, governments fall, and humanity’s frontier expands – and you can impact it all."

Like... no lol. No you can't impact anything. Not really. Also "governments fall" is an overstatement at best.

 

[Jockey79]

New World too.

World of Warcraft closed its open-world PvP realms, making it a toggle on the PvE servers.
Warframe has it as a separate mode.

Any game with an element of role-play suffers if it has open world PvP, because all that does is attract seal clubbers who don't want to play the game, they want to ruin other peoples time playing the game.

I think that definition is missing some subtext because no one's playing with a very large amount of players.... they're playing solo with a game that simulates what other players do. Connectivity of data =/= multiplayer and we both know this is semantics with that lol.


...


Then in my previous comments you understand this is no longer specifically about PVP and the thread topic is in regards to PP2.0 having meaning. Let's proceed from there and keep our focus on something that matters since you have shown you don't have care for the PVP end.

The definition is a technical one, which the game meets. When you play (even in Solo) you are connected to the same universe as everyone else.
So by that definition, the game is an MMO, even in Solo, because everything you do has an impact on the shared BGS we all use.

As for the game having meaning, that is subjective and you have been dismissive of people saying why they enjoy the game.
So clearly you're not here to debate, just argue that your vision of the game is the only right vision of it. Which it isn't, by the way.

I tend to disagree, the folks that want Open Only are interested in just that, there is no other reason, if you want to meet folks for fun with no PvP just join Mobius.

O7

Exactly, all arguments for PvP in Power Play and Open Only for Power Play are the seal clubbers screaming for targets.
It's all it ever was and will be.

 

[Jockey79]

They're content to believe that "nothing" is an activity and at this point I'm convinced there is no forward progression from here to that.

Millions of people enjoy meditation, which is sitting there doing "nothing".
Some people find an activity where doing nothing is therapeutic.

I like to haul cargo in-game, just simple A - B - A trading in my Cutter, not even min/maxing profits, just going back and fourth, to and fro.
I can switch off mentally, forget all the stress of everyday life and just enjoy existing.

The fact you don't understand that is your problem, not ours who are quite happy to enjoy Elite as it currently stands.

 

[Venan]

As for the game having meaning, that is subjective and you have been dismissive of people saying why they enjoy the game.
So clearly you're not here to debate, just argue that your vision of the game is the only right vision of it. Which it isn't, by the way.

Wrong. All I'm hearing is the subjective views of why people enjoy the game. I don't see any concrete evidence for the game's designs naturally rewarding, influencing, or directing players via the gameplay. My "vision" isn't even a vision, I've asked on multiple accounts on what people would like to see for PP2.0 and reasons to actually have a reason to play with others as opposed to "you just can" being this very vague generic answer. There is no "right" vision but I absolutely understand game design and what I see a very disjointed game with a community that is VERY narrow minded and wearing rose tinted glasses. "You ARE playing an MMO! There are people online!" right and pac-man is an MMO too because your high score is posted online for millions to see lmao. "It does matter!" and yet no one's provided a reason as to the game's natural functions why anything really has any impact or matters whatsoever. You can tell me you love a rock out in the Sugadez system and that the rock has value to you for finding it all you want ad that's great, good for you and I'm very happy you love that rock so much. However that subjective value to that rock means nothing to anyone but you and there is no gameplay directing you toward that rock or rewarding you for having that rock, you are specifically creating imaginary worth which is much akin to what the community is using to cover the lack of incentive in a lot of the gameplay the game offers. Give me a break dude lmao. You're not in a sandbox where your decisions make a difference, you're in a simulation of space doing chores that don't interact with anyone naturally or do anything in the broad view. Your imagination and subjectivity is what it is, and the devs will absolutely pat you on the head for it because your subjective value doesn't need them to put any effort or money into the game. You're content where you are and with things are, that much is plain, and the devs are happy to see that and will do nothing knowing you're content. Enjoy your game(for however much longer it has so long as the community acts like this).

Millions of people enjoy meditation, which is sitting there doing "nothing".
Some people find an activity where doing nothing is therapeutic.

I like to haul cargo in-game, just simple A - B - A trading in my Cutter, not even min/maxing profits, just going back and fourth, to and fro.
I can switch off mentally, forget all the stress of everyday life and just enjoy existing.

The fact you don't understand that is your problem, not ours who are quite happy to enjoy Elite as it currently stands.

I can do nothing for free lmao. I fully understand the idea, though I think it's pathetic this is the standard you think is worth paying for(not just paying for, you've gone out of your way to spend 10 years in this game good lord I'm sorry you haven't experienced better replacements to this by now). You get a whole galaxy, online, varied ships, tons to do, all these intricate systems, and your favorite activity is to actively choose to do nothing. Not even referring to lessening the value of exploration or trade, in fact I quite like listening to music and trading. I'm talking about literally doing something, and it doing nothing in return for you because you already have it all. There is no value except what your imagination fills in for this game I guess and boy are the devs happy to fill their wallets and kick back knowing that lmao. Again, enjoy your game. I'm gonna go "lay low" in a neighboring system because I killed a bunch of players "because of my player narrative" lmao. Oh and I'll be exploring but while I'm doing that, I'm actually "hiding from the law" ya know.... in the empty system solo with no players around or anything happening. wink I'm having so much fun playing pretend in the game that's supposed to bridge the gap in playing pretend ho boy lemme tell ya!

 

[Brrokk]

Oh dear, we're all enjoying the game and having fun when we shouldn't.

 

[angusmadmac1]

But that's the beauty of the game you play it you put yourself into those roles , that's why Elite unfortunately is the best space game and I say unfortunately because it could be better.
I always think of it as yup that will do and hardly believe that those making the game actually play it .
The basic game play hasn't changed since 1980 ( I was on spectrum and the Amiga ) but we've had it for so long we have our own narratives and stick by it .
Me I'm a struggling trader just making my way in the universe ( I have enough money to keep my FC for several years) but I still use the python (well I've got 4 , along with all the other ships ). You make your story. That's why it has a strong a loyal group of people each has their own fun. You could switch off open and BGS and PP and people would still play it ( ok some would complain on the BGS and PP ) as some players go on about their daily playing with no interest in those and believe it's some handwavium RNG magical background NPC stuff .
I spent 6 months going to Beagle in 2017, I didn't have to I just did it then realised I had to get back 6 months again . I then got all the ranks PP modules engineers and all but one of the permits and did BGS and joined a squadron for a few years . I then wanted certain bobbleheads . I finished that 2024 ( I started 2016) and visited all 42 regions (42 for those in know )
Never killed a thargoid and never blown up a commander in anger. My story my game . For you that may seem boring I've had a blast and met some amazing folk on the way. its not perfect it never will be but there isn't any other game where I've put so much time and effort into .

 

[Venan]

Oh dear, we're all enjoying the game and having fun when we shouldn't.

Never once said this and the amount of people filling my mouth with these words shows my point goes over your heads lol. Again, enjoy what the game is pretending to offer you, that's cool if you like that. I like when I actually have impact in the game though, not just playing pretend.

But that's the beauty of the game you play it you put yourself into those roles , that's why Elite unfortunately is the best space game and I say unfortunately because it could be better.
I always think of it as yup that will do and hardly believe that those making the game actually play it .
The basic game play hasn't changed since 1980 ( I was on spectrum and the Amiga ) but we've had it for so long we have our own narratives and stick by it .
Me I'm a struggling trader just making my way in the universe ( I have enough money to keep my FC for several years) but I still use the python (well I've got 4 , along with all the other ships ). You make your story. That's why it has a strong a loyal group of people each has their own fun. You could switch off open and BGS and PP and people would still play it ( ok some would complain on the BGS and PP ) as some players go on about their daily playing with no interest in those and believe it's some handwavium RNG magical background NPC stuff .
I spent 6 months going to Beagle in 2017, I didn't have to I just did it then realised I had to get back 6 months again . I then got all the ranks PP modules engineers and all but one of the permits and did BGS and joined a squadron for a few years . I then wanted certain bobbleheads . I finished that 2024 ( I started 2016) and visited all 42 regions (42 for those in know )
Never killed a thargoid and never blown up a commander in anger. My story my game . For you that may seem boring I've had a blast and met some amazing folk on the way. its not perfect it never will be but there isn't any other game where I've put so much time and effort into .

It's definitely not "the best" but it absolutely has so much potential resting and doing nothing with it. It's cool to have a personal narrative and story, RP is fantastic and if anyone's an advocate of that, it's absolutely me. However I've played enough games to find I can do this AND the game actually offers you rewards and senses of accomplishment that reflect in the world visibly. I can say I've played games where I was a captain not just in my imagination but in a literal sense leading masses into war. Actual people following and charging into combat. I've had players who traveled with me to bodyguard me and vice versa I've served as someone's knight just to make some bank when I was low in funds. I could literally say this because the game's environment naturally provided means and requirements that made these possible... not just because I was pretending and using a graphics engine to look at in the process. Elite has the materials to do as I've mentioned and it's fine if people are enjoying themselves in that respect of imagination but I wish they could see what I see and how that could be more than just in their heads solo.

Alas.

 

[Brrokk]

Never once said this and the amount of people filling my mouth with these words shows my point goes over your heads lol. Again, enjoy what the game is pretending to offer you, that's cool if you like that. I like when I actually have impact in the game though, not just playing pretend.
...

"I'm not wrong, I'm just surrounded by people who are too stupid to understand me" is a standard internet get-out these days.

But you see, you just did the thing again. I don't enjoy what the game is "pretending to offer" me; I enjoy what it offers me. No pretence is possible.

Well, that's enough. Writing a long post would delay my gaming time too much.

 

[Darrack]

Do tell what there is that requires a group or that has meaning when you play solo after you've completed everything you desire?

Ooooh where to start.
Currently me and the Mrs are building starports in systems, often with some friends in PG (Mobius).
I have a separate account for some PvP that a small group of us do in our own PG (general fooling around)
10'000+ hours, all beacons done, engineers all sorted, many of the in game mystery's plotted but there is still a huge list to do much of it with friends.
Im pretty confident the bugs will be back soon, yep more group content.

There is plenty that has meaning in a group as long as you are having fun, heck those folks are planning DW3 for next year, that will be a blast.
Fdev gave us a sandbox, we create our own content

O7

 

[Jockey79]

Wrong. All I'm hearing is the subjective views of why people enjoy the game. I don't see any concrete evidence for the game's designs naturally rewarding, influencing, or directing players via the gameplay......

You throw out the word "wrong" as if you're some authority on how I (and others) can enjoy our time, then demand we prove we enjoy playing.
We don't owe you anything and you don't deserve an explanation.

If you don't enjoy the game and don't find it rewarding, then move on. There are plenty of other games out there.

But how dare you tell me what I can or cannot enjoy. I paid for this game with MY money and I spend MY time getting enjoyment out of it.

I can do nothing for free lmao.

Good for you, off you pop then.

I fully understand the idea, though I think it's pathetic

Stopped reading there, you understand nothing at all and just came here to insult people who have done nothing to you.
Your entire time in this thread has added nothing to the debate of the actual topic, you just call people names for enjoying the game without you.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

 

[ꝁestrel]

I'm going to win the internet argument this time. I can feel it!

 

[Jockey79]

I'm still convinced that the best way to solve all the whining from that subset of players about trying to force people to be their content is to simply remove Open Mode.
Problem solved.

/end thread

Then the rest of us can enjoy the game we bought, how we like, without constantly being told we are having fun "wrong".

 

[Ozric]

Oh look another new forum account comes in, and suddenly I'm dragged back in here again to remind you all to show some respect to other people and their chosen way to play the game.

Discuss the post and not the poster.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Oh look another new forum account comes in, and suddenly I'm dragged back in here again to remind you all to show some respect to other people and their chosen way to play the game.

Discuss the post and not the poster.

Mutual respect is so last century .

 

[angusmadmac1]

Mutual respect is so last century .

That was only 25 years ago

 

[Jockey79]

That was only 25 years ago

Ouch.

Thanks for reminding me I was born last century