Open play trolls

[Sylveria]

Oh sure there are issues on both sides, the main sticking point for many though seems to be the illusion that neither side wants to address the issue.

Disagree.

The main "sticking point" is that PvPer's already got everything they wanted with Open unrestricted game play with (almost) no consequences, and PvE players got the short end of the stick with having to use PG's or Solo in order to avoid being "harassed" by players who think "unsolicited competitive gameplay" should be the norm. It never has been and never will be. EVE turned into a niche game over the years because of this. They're actually trying to resolve it now with "alpha accounts", etc. but the reality for them is that they're only postponing the inevitable. It may not "die" but it's definitely falling into the ranks of obscurity as other games are released with more sensible options (like PvP flagging, etc.) This will also happen to ED eventually- falling into the ranks of obscurity as others are more willing to cater to both styles of gameplay instead of trying to create a divisive arena.

FD's "social experiment" has failed- needs to address this problem, and until they do all the forum discussion isn't going to change it.

It wouldn't matter if all of us suddenly started holding hands and singing kumbaya together- we have no control whatsoever over this game. Threats of "not playing" "boycotting" and all that won't help- it has no effect, they've already gained enough financially to be successful.

That said, although I speak for myself only- I'd be willing to discuss options which benefit BOTH sides of the fence, and always have been- but from what I've observed from most on the PvP side it's an "all or nothing" argument. (which I can only gather is based on the "competitive" nature of PvP) Most want the ability to "control" what PvE players do or don't, having "targets" fully accessible to them without restriction, etc. Summed up, "fish in a barrel".

Show me a "solution" being proposed by the PvP community that doesn't include the ability to control everything PvE players are able to do, and I'll certainly consider it.

 

[verminstar]

Maybe it shouldnt be available to begin with. Out of all my time playing Elite. Ive only been threatened with bad stuff from 1 pvper.

However anytime I come to these forums, I see people slinging insults towards PVPers like crazy. I receive insults and threats for people ive killed in game.

Its all there. Plain as day. These forums sorry to say, and reddit too mind you. Show that.

Git gud is a bad thing almost an insult around here. People come in whine and complain. And are told to get better at the game. But some dont. Some continue to whine and moan over gameplay mechanics like PVP and UA bombing.

Almost everyone that PVP's or tried to get into it, will receive some pretty bad messages if they kill anyone else thats not set up for PVP. Even if its in powerplay or BGS, or a competitive CG. It happens so much people just remove themselves from that style of play. Because its unhealthy.

There are lots of PVPers out there that would rather just fight other PVPers, people you have never heard of. Good people. People that dont want to be involved in the toxicity it created.

So you must ask yourself. Why does it even exist in the first place. Why does this conversation exist in the first place?

Thats the problem to be solved. The toxicity needs to end when it comes to gameplay mechanics. And yes getting "BLOWD UP IN OPEN FOR NO REASON" is one of them. Its the nature of the beast. And some people need to accept that.

But these are all my experiences. Are there toxic PVPers out there. Absolutely. Did they start out that way? Maybe.

I do know quite a few that started in carebear land such as myself. Got into PVP through powerplay or tried through the BGS or CGS to get called names, received threats and more. And responded with a good ol (insert bad word here). Then come to the forums, asking for change. Only to be called names again, be told "All you want to do is grief" "You look for any excuse in the book". And so on.

Then when they show and prove things about how bad it is. They get modded and argued with because some people dont want that change.

If it happened to me. Its happened to countless others. I can guarantee that.

The difference is in the delivery...suggesting someone get better is helpful...telling someone to git gud is an insult, no nearly about about it. The fact ye dont regard it as insulting is an indication of yer bias and when yer biased in such ways, yer words lose credibility. It means yer either incapable of seeing a different perspective or yer just ignoring it.

And what point does it prove? How do we go forward from that? Yer making this into us versus them which is making it worse, not better despite what yer intentions are. If ye genuinely dont get it then...'shrugs'...round and round we go yet again ^

 

[frostypaw]

So you must ask yourself. Why does it even exist in the first place. Why does this conversation exist in the first place?

I wonder

I do know quite a few that started in carebear land such as myself.

Oh there we go.

If the rudeness could stop and if there could be some understanding that other people play differently so their ship destruction might mean an awful lot more to them than it does to you then this could all be over with very quickly.

Unfortunately instead people being upset gets used as a weapon to beat them down even further, and to further artificially elevate those who did the upsetting - then when people try and address the issues as has been done in this thread the majority of the time is spent saying "nobody said that" and "you're tarring everyone with the same brush" and similar.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The difference is in the delivery...suggesting someone get better is helpful...telling someone to git gud is an insult, no nearly about about it. The fact ye dont regard it as insulting is an indication of yer bias and when yer biased in such ways, yer words lose credibility. It means yer either incapable of seeing a different perspective or yer just ignoring it.

And what point does it prove? How do we go forward from that? Yer making this into us versus them which is making it worse, not better despite what yer intentions are. If ye genuinely dont get it then...'shrugs'...round and round we go yet again ^

No its not. Telling someone to git gud is hardly an insult.

Its a mentality you have to better yourself. You can git gud at anything. Not just video games.

Gitting gud related to what YOU are in control of. And how YOU handle situation. it doesnt matter if its a video game or mowing the yard.

Only YOU can better yourself. No one else can do that for you.

Everyone should strive to Git Gud. And if you dont. There is no room for anyone to complain about it. When you always have had the option to do so.

 

[verminstar]

No its not. Telling someone to git gud is hardly an insult.

Its a mentality you have to better yourself. You can git gud at anything. Not just video games.

Gitting gud related to what YOU are in control of. And how YOU handle situation. it doesnt matter if its a video game or mowing the yard.

Only YOU can better yourself. No one else can do that for you.

Everyone should strive to Git Gud. And if you dont. There is no room for anyone to complain about it. When you always have had the option to do so.

Round and round we go it is then...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I wonder



Oh there we go.

If the rudeness could stop and if there could be some understanding that other people play differently so their ship destruction might mean an awful lot more to them than it does to you then this could all be over with very quickly.

Unfortunately instead people being upset gets used as a weapon to beat them down even further, and to further artificially elevate those who did the upsetting - then when people try and address the issues as has been done in this thread the majority of the time is spent saying "nobody said that" and "you're tarring everyone with the same brush" and similar.

So heres the deal, I used to condone combat logging. Like straight up rip the PC from the wall. I used to be mad at PVPers for ruining the game. Until I seen the toxicity from the other side. Its not the PVPers, they are actually playing the game correctly. Look at all the tools Fdev give us. And people still complain about Open play.

Yeah Carebears are 100% real in this game. And I was one of them.

 

[Sylveria]

No its not. Telling someone to git gud is hardly an insult.

Its a mentality you have to better yourself. You can git gud at anything. Not just video games.

Gitting gud related to what YOU are in control of. And how YOU handle situation. it doesnt matter if its a video game or mowing the yard.

Only YOU can better yourself. No one else can do that for you.

Everyone should strive to Git Gud. And if you dont. There is no room for anyone to complain about it. When you always have had the option to do so.

Except, this fails to address the point which is not everyone is "competitive" by nature.

That's what constitutes the difference between PvP and PvE players.

I know I certainly don't wake up in the morning with visions of "conquest and control" on my mind.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Round and round we go it is then...

Or dont git gud and never better yourself. Not my problem.

 

[Han_Zen]

Does anyone really get upset when they are killed or get foul mouthed?

Or is it all forum PvP?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Except, this fails to address the point which is not everyone is "competitive" by nature.

That's what constitutes the difference between PvP and PvE players.

I know I certainly don't wake up in the morning with visions of "conquest and control" on my mind.

You can git gud enough to survive in open. Or simply dont go into it and complain?

Either way the options are there. If you dont want to git gud thats on you. Getting gud is not restricted to competitive.

Im getting gud in after effects and premiere pro. Soon Ill be working with blender. Gitting gud applies to lots of things.

Go git gud Sylveria.

 

[verminstar]

Or dont git gud and never better yourself. Not my problem.

Then why make it into a problem? Instead of just dismissing someone with a curt reply, why dont ye just try to see things from someone elses perspective? Just cos you dont see the problem doesnt mean a problem doesnt exist.

But I can see yer close minded and any attempt at a serious discussion just isnt gonna happen cos ye cant get past this point ye feel ye have to make. Ye been told that git gud is insulting but yer still refusing to accept that and then claiming that its everyone else with the attitude problem...ye still dont get it do ye?

 

[PeLucheuh]

Except, this fails to address the point which is not everyone is "competitive" by nature.

That's what constitutes the difference between PvP and PvE players.

I know I certainly don't wake up in the morning with visions of "conquest and control" on my mind.

Being competitive has nothing to do with being a PvP or PvE oriented player. There are a lot of competitive PvE in ED and other games (WoW progress) or event (speed run competition).

 

[frostypaw]

So heres the deal, I used to condone combat logging. Like straight up rip the PC from the wall. I used to be mad at PVPers for ruining the game. Until I seen the toxicity from the other side. Its not the PVPers, they are actually playing the game correctly. Look at all the tools Fdev give us. And people still complain about Open play.

Yeah Carebears are 100% real in this game. And I was one of them.

I think you'll find the vast majority do not agree with you on that either.

You might be an outlier in this conversation, but determined that your position is in fact the average and that how you used to think is how those you are arguing with think.

You are probably mistaken in that. It's best to ask them.

 

[Bigmaec]

I constantly strive to git gudder in mowing my lawn.

In Elite, I try to relax from that enormous task, it's a game after all.

Just saying.

 

[Riverside]

Being competitive has nothing to do with being a PvP or PvE oriented player. There are a lot of competitive PvE in ED and other games (WoW progress) or event (speed run competition).

It sort of does. An Achiever is motivated by a target, if the target is a PvP one then so be it. A Killer/Griefer is specifically looking to frustrate other players and would only be interested in PvE for levelling up.

Richard A Bartle has a lot to say on the subject.

 

[Sylveria]

Being competitive has nothing to do with being a PvP or PvE oriented player. There are a lot of competitive PvE in ED and other games (WoW progress) or event (speed run competition).

Logically- it's like saying a deer should "git gud" after they were eaten by a tiger. Deer aren't interested in "hunting".

It has everything to do with being competitive when everyone is being thrown into the same environment without choice of engagement.

PvE players in Open simply have NO choice but to engage with PvP players, which is the entire point. PvP players are by nature competitive, while PvE players are not.

 

[Riverside]

Logically- it's like saying a deer should "git gud" after they were eaten by a tiger. Deer aren't interested in "hunting".

It has everything to do with being competitive when everyone is being thrown into the same environment without choice of engagement.

PvE players in Open simply have NO choice but to engage with PvP players, which is the entire point. PvP players are by nature competitive, while PvE players are not.

The deer that is slowest gets caught. They don't need to be amazing runners, just faster than the slowest other deer.

And competitive PvE is very much a thing. Consider the Elite ranks for example

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Logically- it's like saying a deer should "git gud" after they were eaten by a tiger. Deer aren't interested in "hunting".

It has everything to do with being competitive when everyone is being thrown into the same environment without choice of engagement.

PvE players in Open simply have NO choice but to engage with PvP players, which is the entire point. PvP players are by nature competitive, while PvE players are not.

There is a food chain in elite dangerous. Respect it. or Die.

You need to accept those facts.

 

[Bigmaec]

There is a food chain in elite dangerous. Respect it. or Die.

You need to accept those facts.

I miss the smiley, or are you serious about that?

 

[[VR] Garfs]

There is a food chain in elite dangerous. Respect it. or Die.

You need to accept those facts.

says it all