Modes Open PVE mode - partial solution to community division?

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I ordinarily would not care either, if not for the prevalence of demands that non-Open players be forced to play in Open.

Honestly, this kind of hacky "solution" is part of the reason I wouldn't even remotely consider playing in Open. But, hey - so long as Solo/Group goes on untouched, by all means, have at. However, the greater "online only" "argument" remains alarming, and I see this kind of thing as part and parcel when it comes to moving the game towards an online-only focus.

I see what you're saying and I actually feel the same way in some respects, since it seems the concept of Open and what gameplay functionality is expected of us (it seems) is more of a respawn death match, but the game has been an on-line game since release when I bought into it. If it's too much of a pressing issue, I believe Frontier, to their credit, have offered returns in the past. Just saying.

More to the point though, I think all modes should be considered equal and have access to all the game content. I would prefer that Frontier find and have the backbone of looking more into alternative solutions than defaulting to the lowest common denominator.
 
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From what I've seen, for what it's worth, there are a number of people who would be interested in a PVE mode. I'm not one of them, but I'm not going to discredit the positions of others based on my own position and approach to playing the game.

Repped. This is actually one of the most sensible responses I've seen from those who wouldn't be interested in PvE Open anyway.
 
Repped. This is actually one of the most sensible responses I've seen from those who wouldn't be interested in PvE Open anyway.

To be fair, I think a PVE mode might be somewhat of a detriment toward how I choose to play the game. I really want players to be a relevant force within the game, for "good" or "bad" as they might choose. I just want it to be contextually relevant within the game world and not a free-for-all without apt consequences.

Open mode currently means I have to subject myself more toward the meta which, I feel, has gone astray ever since the Engineers. Don't get me wrong; I love tinkering with loudouts, but again, I want it to mean something more than just a means to an end, the next time sink to grind toward to stay relevant within the PVP meta. It just seems like a waste of potential to me. Sorry to say.

I mean, in a game that simulates the entire Milky Way galaxy, and this is what we find ourselves having to contend with...
 
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Yeah, I'm not wasting my time on any of this salt.

Why on earth should anyone give what you have to say any "weight" then?

Except this. ^ I don't care if ya do or don't, guy. But I've watched this "debate" long enough to know that the people on the other side of this can be quite insensible with all their demands. My dismissal is actually a dismissal of this whole suggestion itself, though, as I laid out already.

I see what you're saying and I actually feel the same way in some respects, since it seems the concept of Open and what gameplay functionality is expected of us (it seems) is more of a respawn death match, but the game has been an on-line game since release when I bought into it. If it's too much of a pressing issue, I believe Frontier, to their credit, have offered returns in the past. Just saying.

More to the point though, I think all modes should be considered equal and have access to all the game content. I would prefer that Frontier find and have the backbone of looking more into alternative solutions than defaulting to the lowest common denominator.

This sentiment, however, I can get behind. +1.
 
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I ordinarily would not care either, if not for the prevalence of demands that non-Open players be forced to play in Open.

Honestly, this kind of hacky "solution" is part of the reason I wouldn't even remotely consider playing in Open. But, hey - so long as Solo/Group goes on untouched, by all means, have at. However, the greater "online only" "argument" remains alarming, and I see this kind of thing as part and parcel when it comes to moving the game towards an online-only focus.

I'm not sure anyone who is pushing for Open PvE has suggested scrapping PG or Solo.
When I've seen that, it's usually a hardcore element of PvP players who are often the very reason that some players don't like Open in the first place.

I know the whole Open PowerPlay thing is controversial and can be seen as forcing players into open, but that's FD's idea.
Personally, I think that makes sense for PP, but I have no interest in it anyway so I'm not invested.

And sure, when the peanut gallery is throwing around ideas about how it could work or why it won't work, it'll look hacky.
I honestly don't think an IFF solution would be that hard, and that it's not worth getting bogged down in the edge cases.
 
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I'm not sure anyone who is pushing for Open PvE has suggested scrapping PG or Solo.
When I've seen that, it's usually a hardcore element of PvP players who are often the very reason that some players don't like Open in the first place.

I know the whole Open PowerPlay thing is controversial and can be seen as forcing players into open, but that's FD's idea.
Personally, I think that makes sense for PP, but I have no interest in it anyway so I'm not invested.

And sure, when the peanut gallery is throwing around ideas about how it could work or why it won't work, it'll look hacky.
I honestly don't think an IFF solution would be that hard, and that it's not worth getting bogged down in the edge cases.

Given the not thing that has been pointed out, really the only fair way to go for PP. While in itself it isn't going to stop bots, it really is going to make them easier to spot (no more hiding in solo or pg) and report.
 
Given the not thing that has been pointed out, really the only fair way to go for PP. While in itself it isn't going to stop bots, it really is going to make them easier to spot (no more hiding in solo or pg) and report.

I honestly think the whole bot thing says more about the mechanics of PP than anything else.
 
Hey all,
had a longer break from ED (not quite sure how to blame TJ for my sligthly Battletech addiciton and the awesome weather :D ) and try to catch up with the stuff going on lately, so sorry if I miss something obvious.

First i am totally on the pro front when it comes to a Open-PVE mode.
Yeah there are PG`s like Mobius, but even there the players are divided into (iirc) 4 groups due to the max size of PG`s and its still possible that some trolls join in to farm some extra salt before they get banned (dont seems to be an actual problem though).

So besides the obvious opportunity to bring the PVE crowd together in a single Galaxy (well, at least as much as instancing and stuff allows something like "bringing together [noob]) and decrease the ammount of rage and ohnonotthatdiscusionagain I also could see a great chance for consensual PVP here.

Wait, PVP in a PVE Mode?
Sure: Instead of just excluding PVP/player to player damage at all, why not simply implement something like a flag system and/or PVP areas, be it a variant of CZ`s or whole systems/areas of space.
My point here is that (at least i think) a lot of players who prefer PVE dont have a general problem with PVP, they just have a problem with being random content for some people who just want to ruin other peoples fun/experience.
Also PP could stay in this mode, someone who participate would just get flagged as PVP (well even dont have to, see below)

To get a little controversial here, personally I would even like to see a full seperation of the Modes, like PVE/PVP Servers in most MMOs, what also means a PVE Cmdr cant just switch to PVP and vise versa.
Tbh I dont think this would ever happen or is possible/cost effective at all (two bgs servers and wont even start with the third party programs and stuff) but personally I would be totally fine with it.

Just my few cents on the issue and now excuse me since i have to get the charcoal ready for some Brunchbecue :D

Have a great Weekend everyone o7
 
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Second this

I second this

Agreed. Have indeed floated this idea many times in the past few years, usually in the "Hotel", because that's where ideas like this usually get relegated to.

It doesn't even have to be a "4th" mode- it would almost completely alleviate the need for PG's whatsoever- because people could still group up in either PvP or PvE mode as they wish. Then you'd only need three menu choices that encompass most styles of play- Open PvE, Open PvP and Solo. (the latter of which would be for those who wanted "offline single player") All you're exchanging is PG's for Open PvE. Groups such as Mobius formed out of the lack of a cooperative PvE mode, and it proved that there was a need for one almost immediately with the number of players who participate.

As to coding, it really shouldn't be all that difficult considering the Wings system has a mechanic for ignoring Friendly Fire damage. Set to -100% and voila! Only difference is instead of each player having to be involved in a "Wing" each player in that mode is affected by the same rule. So arguments of "waste of development time", etc. are completely false and irrelevant- takes a whole hell of a lot less time to code this up than say making PP exclusive to Open.

It's long past due.

Just as PP -> Open "should have been from it's introduction", a PvE mode and not just a PG (limited player size group that still doesn't negate player/player damage) should have been from release.

The long overused "justification" (which is just an excuse) is that it would fragment the community, however the community has remained fragmented for years and they still haven't figured out how to "resolve" it... perhaps because there's no resolution in pigeonholing everyone into a single playstyle?

At this point, what does Frontier really stand to lose that they haven't already?
 
Right, well, they said it was ironic, so... I don't know.

Well, back on point, I think Open PVE would be rather difficult to implement in general.

Difficult? How difficult would it be to recreate Mobius and make it a button next to "Solo", "Private Group", and "Open" modes? Come on, is that really so difficult?

And I really doubt they're going to move forward with mode-exclusive content, that's a bad idea no matter which way you slice it.

___

Out in the black, fully loaded in a combat Vulture, no one can hear the trife. This is one area in which the game could use some refinement, if the game new what it was in the first place and who it could appeal to, of course.

Personally it's a very sad state of affairs when the best way to enjoy the game is to avoid as much of it as you can on a deep-space exploration voyage.

___


I guess you'd have to, considering you don't seem inclined to argue my point that a small minority is screaming to force people to play in Open.

Err, where in this thread has *anybody* demanded that anyone be forced to play in any particular mode?

Having the option does not hurt anyone. Period.

Nobody said anything about having an MMORPG-style regional chat window (which most of those games let you easily hide/mute, by the way).

Also, cut all this "we we we" stuff out. You are speaking for yourself and yourself alone, not for me, and not for other responders to this thread. Just you.

There's no such thing as 'performance drops' occuring in Elite as a result of the presence of other players. There are some bugs still, yes, but performance drops? No more than loading a normal NPC ship into your game.

And your last comment about "Open" seems to completely miss the intent and purpose of this thread entirely.

Do you get now why you aren't being taken entirely seriously thus far?
 
Difficult? ...

I mean in terms of viability and what Frontier seem to be trying to do with gameplay in general. There are a lot of tangent things based on the premise of the potential of PVP to keep the grinders grinding. Not saying it won't happen, but I highly doubt it.
 
Difficult? How difficult would it be to recreate Mobius and make it a button next to "Solo", "Private Group", and "Open" modes? Come on, is that really so difficult?

And I really doubt they're going to move forward with mode-exclusive content, that's a bad idea no matter which way you slice it.

___



Personally it's a very sad state of affairs when the best way to enjoy the game is to avoid as much of it as you can on a deep-space exploration voyage.

___




Err, where in this thread has *anybody* demanded that anyone be forced to play in any particular mode?

Having the option does not hurt anyone. Period.

Nobody said anything about having an MMORPG-style regional chat window (which most of those games let you easily hide/mute, by the way).

Also, cut all this "we we we" stuff out. You are speaking for yourself and yourself alone, not for me, and not for other responders to this thread. Just you.

There's no such thing as 'performance drops' occuring in Elite as a result of the presence of other players. There are some bugs still, yes, but performance drops? No more than loading a normal NPC ship into your game.

And your last comment about "Open" seems to completely miss the intent and purpose of this thread entirely.

Do you get now why you aren't being taken entirely seriously thus far?

Oh, no. You've hurt my feelings. Internet snowflakes don't take me seriously. Oh, dear. What will I do?

Oh, I know! I'll rebut you with "but, sir, I don't take you seriously!" Excellent!

No, I don't take seriously at all the notion that further dividing the game when there's little to no justifiable reason for doing so - literally, pretty much zero reason - when there are other matters to address. Specifically, the fact that the only real interaction players can have with other humans is to shoot texts at them, or shoot lasers.

"No performance drops."

Well, good for you, pal. But I remember crippling performance issues when I played in Open years ago, and I'm still seeing people complaining about it now. Mass lag, rubberbanding, hitching/slowdowns in Supercruise - and I see it when I watch Youtube videos of the game. Especially in areas with high population density.

"PvE doesn't hurt anyone."

Wrong.

- It marginalizes PvP. When you play online, you're playing with other people. Other people can shoot at you if it tickles their fancy to do so. You want to stop/minimize that, make being a jerk have consequences. No, I don't mean, "you're breaking the rules" kind of consequences. I mean in-game, in-universe, plausible ones. And I don't mean randomly spawning overpowered deathmobiles that make no sense at all. In your system, even less people will have to worry about other players, because everyone will just join up in happy happy "you can't shoot me" fantasy land instead.

- Happy-happy fantasy land is bullcrap. You want PvE, play solo or in group. If you're playing out in the wild, it's ridiculous to have magic force fields preventing aggression. It's nonsense. There are already options for people who don't want PvP. I use them myself. I advocate for being able to play without PvP. I don't even like PvP in Elite, because it's fundamentally, stupidly broken in its current state. Weird, then, that I've got to advocate on its behalf now. The suggestion of PvE-only online mode is terribly artificial, and will further reduce inter-player conflict or risk of being out among other people.

- It's, as I said before, a band-aid for a gunshot wound. You need to give players reason to play together. You've got to give players/the world the ability to combat jerkhats - not by ban-hammers or magic force fields or overpowered NPC deathsleds. You need to add to the universe and give more options. There are NO meaningful player interactions beyond gabbing and blasting. That's your problem. There are NO meaningful ways to discourage murdering players beyond credit penalties and inconvenience. That's another part of your problem. Ducking out of it by giving players a PvE shield will discourage actually fixing this with a better system. We might as well have no online (which is kind of what I've been saying all along).

- You're not courting the people who never cared to play Open to begin with. They've already got Solo or Private. Unless you're for taking those away from them and forcing them to pal around in your bubble (who would want to do that I wonder), there's no reason why they should want to drop what they've got now and play in a silly, fakey, hacky mode where they're not allowed to shoot other players if they feel the need/want to do so.
 
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rootsrat

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No, I don't take seriously at all the notion that further dividing the game when there's little to no justifiable reason for doing so - literally, pretty much zero reason - when there are other matters to address. Specifically, the fact that the only real interaction players can have with other humans is to shoot texts at them, or shoot lasers.

Not really, you can also refuel or repair someone or play in COOP, so PwP rather than PvP.

"PvE doesn't hurt anyone."

- It marginalizes PvP. When you play online, you're playing with other people. Other people can shoot at you if it tickles their fancy to do so. You want to stop/minimize that, make being a jerk have consequences. No, I don't mean, "you're breaking the rules" kind of consequences. I mean in-game, in-universe, plausible ones. And I don't mean randomly spawning overpowered deathmobiles that make no sense at all. In your system, even less people will have to worry about other players, because everyone will just join up in happy happy "you can't shoot me" fantasy land instead.

Some don't care one single bit about PVP. Don't agree with it? Don't care about that either. Don't understand it? Well...

- Happy-happy fantasy land is bullcrap.

For you, not so much for others. You can call me "carebear" all you want. Don't care. Suck it up.

You want PvE, play solo or in group.

They're not fit for purpose for my proposal.

If you're playing out in the wild, it's ridiculous to have magic force fields preventing aggression. It's nonsense.

For you, not so much for others. You can call me "carebear" all you want. Don't care. Suck it up.

There are already options for people who don't want PvP.

They're not fit for purpose for my proposal.

The suggestion of PvE-only online mode is terribly artificial, and will further reduce inter-player conflict or risk of being out among other people.

In your opinion. Mine's different, hence I proposed the OP.

- It's, as I said before, a band-aid for a gunshot wound. You need to give players reason to play together.

There are plenty of reasons to play together.

- You're not courting the people who never cared to play Open to begin with.

Yes, I am.

there's no reason why they should want to drop what they've got now and play in a silly, fakey, hacky mode where they're not allowed to shoot other players if they feel the need/want to do so.

Did you read their minds? Prove that what you said is true. Otherwise you're plain lying - presenting your own impression about what other people think and want as a hard fact.
 
Open PvE is necessary. The number of PvP players who are willing to play cooperatively with their targets and engage when it's fun for both sides is so small as to be nonexistent. Make an Open PvE realm. And either double up on the universe (and make the one with the most players in it the default one for lore) or let both realms affect and be affected by player actions.
Heck, you can have in PvE a sign up for two factions (a case I made loooong ago, but entirely and utterly ignored by just about everyone), one being signed up as a Ranger, given the power of the law but requiring to be held to that law more strictly, and the other signed up with an Outlaw faction, shunned if recognised everywhere but the safe spaces of their own faction. Those two can pewpew each other and all that requires is that the OpenPvE defaults to the PvE flag on and signing up to that turns the flag off.
 
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If Open was PvE the only reason to go solo would be to cut back on technical issues that the P2P architecture brings with it when instances spawn with more than one player in it. That would still be a required option, but for most people outside busy areas, you don't need solo if Open is PvE.
 
If Open was PvE the only reason to go solo would be to cut back on technical issues that the P2P architecture brings with it when instances spawn with more than one player in it. That would still be a required option, but for most people outside busy areas, you don't need solo if Open is PvE.

If you don't want people in your game, you still need Solo.
The PvP aspect is irrelevant to many Solo players. They don't want company of any kind.
 
Once upon a time I would have been in favour of an open PvE mode. But i don't think it solves a lot of the problems. I feel the best solution now is a complete separation of the existing Open mode with PG and solo, and then we can have a separate Open PvE mode along with PGs and solo.

Those who want Open (with PvP) will only have Open with PvP. A complete separation of everything, including save games.
 
Once upon a time I would have been in favour of an open PvE mode. But i don't think it solves a lot of the problems. I feel the best solution now is a complete separation of the existing Open mode with PG and solo, and then we can have a separate Open PvE mode along with PGs and solo.

Those who want Open (with PvP) will only have Open with PvP. A complete separation of everything, including save games.

Radical, but maybe the only way to address this fundamental problem in the game design.
 
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