Open PvE

[Cody]

We've been assured that CODE in E: D is no relation to CODE in EvE - was that assurance incorrect?

<chortles>

 

[Mohrgan]

No, I'm just simply describing it as you expect it to be described. Doing otherwise would result in a failure to communicate.

"Screwing it up" Is your arbitrary definition that you apply to how you expect people to act in a PvE server. That's your fault for expecting the unreasonable. If you expect humans to act like humans, then you'll get what you expect.

Nobody is twisting the rules. There is not a single person sitting across the table from David saying "Yes, but if you go by the Latin root, Invulnerabilis or Volnero when cleaned up, we have to English synonyms of Wound, Harm, and Injure. Limpets do none of these things so it is reasonable to expect to be able to open cargo hatches on a PvE server." The rules are set. The players are playing by them. Your interpretation of how players should act within those guidelines is moot. You are just another player, it is not your game that you designed therefore it is not your place to decide acceptable behavior. This is why YOU don't have a ban button to click beside people's names, and that delegation is left to Frontier and their staff.

Your perspective was argued unto death during the entire development phase for the entirety of open play, and yet open play is what it is today. That is because Frontier values player choice over tailored experiences. Open PvE is redundant in that it removes an extra set of rules given to you by Frontier to enable you to create your own tailored experience. That set of rules is called Private Groups. Asking for Open PvE is just asking for a less tailored experience. The less the experience is tailored to your specific desires, the less you can expect to enjoy it.



This is going under the huge assumption that players wouldn't be able to adversely affect your game. "Where there is a will, there is a way." Open PvE may give you a larger community as a whole, but the assumption that they would coalesce into one group is just an assumption. You could very easily end up segmenting the community into players with different perspectives on what is fair play in the PvE mode and what isn't, which will immediately result in the more aggressive part of the population preying upon the more passive. Such is human nature. The moment you start accepting everybody, you have to accept everybody, and all that that entails.

CODE is a segment of Eve players that moonlight in Elite: Dangerous doing PvP and piratey things. In Eve online, CODE specializes in preying upon PvE players in high security space where PvE players are supposed to be protected from forced interactions with other players. If an Open PvE mode were to go live tomorrow, you would have their full attention. We would never see another CODE player in Open PvP again.

The fact that a persistent player could cause grief, doesn't make an Open-PvE option unattractive. Look at it as education. It would let players know that there is a middle point between the free-for-all, and solitude. There was/is no assumption of complete invulnerability, just quick recourse for infractions. If you break the rules, you are expelled. The rules would be very simple: No involuntary combat between Commanders, or you loose your privileges to choose that matchmaking mode. If you accept everybody, they have to accept the rules layed out, or they have broken the agreement, and would have to pay the price.

If code were to shine their light on an Open-PvE mode they, individually, would get one chance at it. And, then it would be back to Open-PvP, at the least. If I remember right, the culprits that did invade Mobius got a time out from FD. An irregular griefing would be a small price to pay, it's just pixels after all, to weed them out. From what I understand code wants to appear to have a set of guidelines they follow. Going into HiSec space and risking the wrath of Concord, is very different than breaking the rules of a game mode.

 

[Mouse]

No, I'm just simply describing it as you expect it to be described. Doing otherwise would result in a failure to communicate.

"Screwing it up" Is your arbitrary definition that you apply to how you expect people to act in a PvE server. That's your fault for expecting the unreasonable. If you expect humans to act like humans, then you'll get what you expect.

Nobody is twisting the rules. There is not a single person sitting across the table from David saying "Yes, but if you go by the Latin root, Invulnerabilis or Volnero when cleaned up, we have to English synonyms of Wound, Harm, and Injure. Limpets do none of these things so it is reasonable to expect to be able to open cargo hatches on a PvE server." The rules are set. The players are playing by them. Your interpretation of how players should act within those guidelines is moot. You are just another player, it is not your game that you designed therefore it is not your place to decide acceptable behavior. This is why YOU don't have a ban button to click beside people's names, and that delegation is left to Frontier and their staff.

Your perspective was argued unto death during the entire development phase for the entirety of open play, and yet open play is what it is today. That is because Frontier values player choice over tailored experiences. Open PvE is redundant in that it removes an extra set of rules given to you by Frontier to enable you to create your own tailored experience. That set of rules is called Private Groups. Asking for Open PvE is just asking for a less tailored experience. The less the experience is tailored to your specific desires, the less you can expect to enjoy it.



This is going under the huge assumption that players wouldn't be able to adversely affect your game. "Where there is a will, there is a way." Open PvE may give you a larger community as a whole, but the assumption that they would coalesce into one group is just an assumption. You could very easily end up segmenting the community into players with different perspectives on what is fair play in the PvE mode and what isn't, which will immediately result in the more aggressive part of the population preying upon the more passive. Such is human nature. The moment you start accepting everybody, you have to accept everybody, and all that that entails.

CODE is a segment of Eve players that moonlight in Elite: Dangerous doing PvP and piratey things. In Eve online, CODE specializes in preying upon PvE players in high security space where PvE players are supposed to be protected from forced interactions with other players. If an Open PvE mode were to go live tomorrow, you would have their full attention. We would never see another CODE player in Open PvP again.

Again and again you are ignoring the main point and question. WHY do people, like you, play a game with the purpose of interfering with other people's games or play style?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Again and again you are ignoring the main point and question. WHY do people, like you, play a game with the purpose of interfering with other people's games or play style?

You assume that that's my sole purpose. Again, we get into the problem with your perspective.

The fact that a persistent player could cause grief, doesn't make an Open-PvE option unattractive. Look at it as education. It would let players know that there is a middle point between the free-for-all, and solitude. There was/is no assumption of complete invulnerability, just quick recourse for infractions. If you break the rules, you are expelled. The rules would be very simple: No involuntary combat between Commanders, or you loose your privileges to choose that matchmaking mode. If you accept everybody, they have to accept the rules layed out, or they have broken the agreement, and would have to pay the price.

If code were to shine their light on an Open-PvE mode they, individually, would get one chance at it. And, then it would be back to Open-PvP, at the least. If I remember right, the culprits that did invade Mobius got a time out from FD. An irregular griefing would be a small price to pay, it's just pixels after all, to weed them out. From what I understand code wants to appear to have a set of guidelines they follow. Going into HiSec space and risking the wrath of Concord, is very different than breaking the rules of a game mode.

That is very wishful thinking and a perfect world scenario. If we lived in a perfect world you wouldn't have to ask for Open PvE to be separate from Open.

Let's get back to reality where hackers get a firm word and a slap on the wrist, then they're allowed back in the game after 24 hours.

If players could adversely affect other players game in Open-PvE it would seem that something would need to be done to discourage those players.

How do other games with separate PvP and PvE servers handle it?

Players would need to want to play in Open-PvE for its potential community to coalesce.

Open-PvE would, presumably, accept everybody - however if someone were to break its simple rule then they could be expelled from that mode for a period of time (dependent on severity of non-compliance and whether the player in question has a history of such transgressions).

We've been assured that CODE in E: D is no relation to CODE in EvE - was that assurance incorrect?

Other games don't handle it. This is a part of every MMO. You're going to have these problems no matter what, which is why I say I don't think you guys realize just how incredibly successful Mobius is, and how beneficial it is that that community is a private group. Make private groups better. Petition Frontier for a recruitment system that people can access, browse and apply through from the main menu.

If CODE told me the sky was blue, and I looked at the sky and it was indeed blue, I'd gouge my eyes out under the suspicion of them being CODE spies.

 

[Schmack]

Never understood why people want to play with everyone but not be part of the "everyone" they are playing with. There are alternatives that are tailored to your needs/wants. Why do you want to run in Open with a caveat of "not me, I'm PvE"? What PvE exists in Open that doesn't exist in group or solo?

 

[Robert Maynard]

If CODE told me the sky was blue, and I looked at the sky and it was indeed blue, I'd gouge my eyes out under the suspicion of them being CODE spies.

From the leader of CODE in E: D:

We aren't the Code from EVE, but let's not start that again.

Never understood why people want to play with everyone but not be part of the "everyone" they are playing with. There are alternatives that are tailored to your needs/wants. Why do you want to run in Open with a caveat of "not me, I'm PvE"? What PvE exists in Open that doesn't exist in group or solo?

The Open-PvE mode being requested would be in addition to the existing Open game mode. Players would seem to want to share the benefits of Open (i.e. being able to meet strangers with no need to identify, research, apply, be accepted into a Private Group) without others initiating PvP against them. It's more about playing *without* PvP....

 

[Chaz]

Many other MMO's have PvP and PvE servers for blindingly obvious reasons, because not everyone is interested in that kind of competitive play. WoW for instance has them. What is so difficult to understand?

An Open PvE server could not possibly fracture the player base any more than it already is. Open right now is essentially the PvP server, everyone who wants a PvE experience currently has to create or join a private game or go solo. Creating a PvE server would just give those in solo or in private games that want a PvE experience a place to play and meet lots of other like minded cmdr's without having to be embroiled in the competitive PvP side of the game. I'm sure you'd find lots of solo players joining it.

If some players leave the PvP server to play on the PvE server, so what? If that's what they want to do and that's the game style they prefer, why is that a problem? Let those that want to get involved in PvP have their space and those that don't have theirs. It's simple and the fair thing to do. Why is there even an argument about this? More to point, why haven't FD implemented this yet?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Never understood why people want to play with everyone but not be part of the "everyone" they are playing with. There are alternatives that are tailored to your needs/wants. Why do you want to run in Open with a caveat of "not me, I'm PvE"? What PvE exists in Open that doesn't exist in group or solo?

That is fair enough you do not need to understand (tho in truth detailed reasons have been given multiple times) but you just need to accept it is so and have a bit of empathy for those who feel that way, even if it seems madness to you.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

From the leader of CODE in E: D:





The Open-PvE mode being requested would be in addition to the existing Open game mode. Players would seem to want to share the benefits of Open (i.e. being able to meet strangers with no need to identify, research, apply, be accepted into a Private Group) without others initiating PvP against them. It's more about playing *without* PvP....

Streamline the application process instead. Ask Frontier for a full application UI that lists the private groups and provides the private group moderators with all of the relevant information about applicants. If someone applies for Mobius and you see in their stats that they have 70 pilot kills, their intent is obvious.

You still get in the main menu, you still get more players, and you maintain control over the type of players that gain access. It's everything you want without losing any of the advantages you currently have.

Many other MMO's have PvP and PvE servers for blindingly obvious reasons, because not everyone is interested in that kind of competitive play. WoW for instance has them. What is so difficult to understand?

An Open PvE server could not possibly fracture the player base any more than it already is. Open right now is essentially the PvP server, everyone who wants a PvE experience currently has to create or join a private game or go solo. Creating a PvE server would just give those in solo or in private games that want a PvE experience a place to play and meet lots of other like minded cmdr's without having to be embroiled in the competitive PvP side of the game. I'm sure you'd find lots of solo players joining it.

If some players leave the PvP server to play on the PvE server, so what? If that's what they want to do and that's the game style they prefer, why is that a problem? Let those that want to get involved in PvP have their space and those that don't have theirs. It's simple and the fair thing to do. Why is there even an argument about this? More to point, why haven't FD implemented this yet?

We've already established that I'm a piece of griefing scum. I only play in Open and I haven't shot at or been shot at by another player in 3 months. Open play is open play, not Open PvP.

Should a PvE server be created and people leave Open general to go play in it, I couldn't care less. I'll just have to take another break from the forums after I get tired of posting "I told you so." in every moan thread about people "griefing" in the PvE server.

 

[Chaz]

Should a PvE server be created and people leave Open general to go play in it, I couldn't care less. I'll just have to take another break from the forums after I get tired of posting "I told you so." in every moan thread about people "griefing" in the PvE server.

Yes and you keep telling us that a PvE server would be an even bigger "griefer" fest than the current open server. Which is your opinion and you're welcome to it. However myself and many others think otherwise. I've played a good many other MMO's and played on PvE servers and have yet to see any of your doom saying in action.

Edit: Oh and for someone who couldn't care less, you seem to spend a lot of time arguing against it.

 

[Mouse]

You assume that that's my sole purpose. Again, we get into the problem with your perspective.

Never said that was your sole purpose and again you utterly evade the question. WHY do you do IT? Why do you and others purposely try to screw up other player's game or play style?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Streamline the application process instead. Ask Frontier for a full application UI that lists the private groups and provides the private group moderators with all of the relevant information about applicants. If someone applies for Mobius and you see in their stats that they have 70 pilot kills, their intent is obvious.

You still get in the main menu, you still get more players, and you maintain control over the type of players that gain access. It's everything you want without losing any of the advantages you currently have.

While the introduction of any Private Group management features at all would be desirable, how would accepting players into and kicking transgressors out of a Private Group be any better than an Open-PvE mode that anyone can join (and anyone who transgresses can be banned from for a fixed period or, possibly, permanently)?

The game itself could look at a player's stats and determine that that player initiates PvP, what their player kill proportion is and what their player/NPC kill ratio is if necessary. The game could also auto-kick players from Open-PvE for any direct PvP actions - this would save time and effort compared to a Private Group manager reacting to a complaint, seeking evidence then kicking a player as required (then dealing with the likely complaint that the player in question had done nothing wrong and should not have been kicked). The game could also automatically fully reimburse a player who lost their ship / cargo / etc. to a PvP attack - a Private Group manager would be unlikely to be able to do that....

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Yes and you keep telling us that a PvE server would be an even bigger "griefer" fest than the current open server. Which is your opinion and you're welcome to it. However myself and many others think otherwise. I've played a good many other MMO's and played on PvE servers and have yet to see any of your doom saying in action.

Edit: Oh and for someone who couldn't care less, you seem to spend a lot of time arguing against it.

I'm glad that you've had a relatively hassle free MMO experience. You're one of the incredibly few.

You can "think" otherwise, but your evidence is lacking. Minecraft is touted as a PvE experience, yet one of the primary reasons that paid servers started popping up for that game was to avoid griefers. Not even administrative control over the server stopping all player damage and modifications of the world stop them. In WoW they just wipe raids purposely, or pull hostile mobs on you, which applies to every WoW clone out there, I.E. most of the popular MMOs.

Final Fantasy XIV you have players fighting over mobs and killing each other.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mixj7/did_i_do_the_right_thing_griefing_griefers_back/

In STO GM's turn it into an event.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=36787.0#.VcZrTunbJzk

In Wildstar it got so bad that the devs had to publicly describe how they were planning to intervene.
https://twitter.com/wildstar/status/121002375715627008

"Griefing" as it falls under the embarrassingly wide definition of Elite players is a staple of MMO interaction. You'll never get away from it on a public server.

Edit: Why do I spend so much time commenting on it? Because making any changes to the game that negatively impact the community as a whole affects the game as a whole, and I play the game. Simple as that.

While the introduction of any Private Group management features at all would be desirable, how would accepting players into and kicking transgressors out of a Private Group be any better than an Open-PvE mode that anyone can join (and anyone who transgresses can be banned from for a fixed period or, possibly, permanently)?

The game itself could look at a player's stats and determine that that player initiates PvP, what their player kill proportion is and what their player/NPC kill ratio is if necessary. The game could also auto-kick players from Open-PvE for any direct PvP actions - this would save time and effort compared to a Private Group manager reacting to a complaint, seeking evidence then kicking a player as required (then dealing with the likely complaint that the player in question had done nothing wrong and should not have been kicked). The game could also automatically fully reimburse a player who lost their ship / cargo / etc. to a PvP attack - a Private Group manager would be unlikely to be able to do that....

But it's not FD's place to automatically block a player from joining Open PvE just because of what they do in Open General. That player could have perfectly benign intentions, and FD will understandably give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for complaints before barring them from the PvE server. Auto-kicking players will just encourage FD to take a hands off approach, and once they do that people will find ways to avoid getting auto-kicked. Once that begins then you are at the mercy of FD's schedule. All you're doing is replacing the Private group manager with a manager from FD who has to do the exact same thing, only that costs FD money that they will be reluctant to spend.

You're putting the onus on FD and expecting them to do what you can do better. Why not just ask to be facilitated in doing it yourself? You're more likely to get what you ask for and the result will be more beneficial in the end.

 

[Mouse]

I'm glad that you've had a relatively hassle free MMO experience. You're one of the incredibly few.

You can "think" otherwise, but your evidence is lacking. Minecraft is touted as a PvE experience, yet one of the primary reasons that paid servers started popping up for that game was to avoid griefers. Not even administrative control over the server stopping all player damage and modifications of the world stop them. In WoW they just wipe raids purposely, or pull hostile mobs on you, which applies to every WoW clone out there, I.E. most of the popular MMOs.

Final Fantasy XIV you have players fighting over mobs and killing each other.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mixj7/did_i_do_the_right_thing_griefing_griefers_back/

In STO GM's turn it into an event.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=36787.0#.VcZrTunbJzk

In Wildstar it got so bad that the devs had to publicly describe how they were planning to intervene.
https://twitter.com/wildstar/status/121002375715627008

"Griefing" as it falls under the embarrassingly wide definition of Elite players is a staple of MMO interaction. You'll never get away from it on a public server.

Edit: Why do I spend so much time commenting on it? Because making any changes to the game that negatively impact the community as a whole affects the game as a whole, and I play the game. Simple as that.



But it's not FD's place to automatically block a player from joining Open PvE just because of what they do in Open General. That player could have perfectly benign intentions, and FD will understandably give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for complaints before barring them from the PvE server. Auto-kicking players will just encourage FD to take a hands off approach, and once they do that people will find ways to avoid getting auto-kicked. Once that begins then you are at the mercy of FD's schedule. All you're doing is replacing the Private group manager with a manager from FD who has to do the exact same thing, only that costs FD money that they will be reluctant to spend.

You're putting the onus on FD and expecting them to do what you can do better. Why not just ask to be facilitated in doing it yourself? You're more likely to get what you ask for and the result will be more beneficial in the end.

Funny, I currently play FF XIV, I played Wildstar, I played STO.. in NONE OF THEM in all the combined years I played them have I been griefed and in none of them is it a OPEN PVP area. Each had certain areas you can PVP or flags. Heck in FF XIV you can only PVP in an arena. What game have I been griefed repeatedly.. EVE.. where has it been attempted.. ED..

 

[Mohrgan]

I'm glad that you've had a relatively hassle free MMO experience. You're one of the incredibly few.

You can "think" otherwise, but your evidence is lacking. Minecraft is touted as a PvE experience, yet one of the primary reasons that paid servers started popping up for that game was to avoid griefers. Not even administrative control over the server stopping all player damage and modifications of the world stop them. In WoW they just wipe raids purposely, or pull hostile mobs on you, which applies to every WoW clone out there, I.E. most of the popular MMOs.

Final Fantasy XIV you have players fighting over mobs and killing each other.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mixj7/did_i_do_the_right_thing_griefing_griefers_back/

In STO GM's turn it into an event.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=36787.0#.VcZrTunbJzk

In Wildstar it got so bad that the devs had to publicly describe how they were planning to intervene.
https://twitter.com/wildstar/status/121002375715627008

"Griefing" as it falls under the embarrassingly wide definition of Elite players is a staple of MMO interaction. You'll never get away from it on a public server.

Edit: Why do I spend so much time commenting on it? Because making any changes to the game that negatively impact the community as a whole affects the game as a whole, and I play the game. Simple as that.



But it's not FD's place to automatically block a player from joining Open PvE just because of what they do in Open General. That player could have perfectly benign intentions, and FD will understandably give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for complaints before barring them from the PvE server. Auto-kicking players will just encourage FD to take a hands off approach, and once they do that people will find ways to avoid getting auto-kicked. Once that begins then you are at the mercy of FD's schedule. All you're doing is replacing the Private group manager with a manager from FD who has to do the exact same thing, only that costs FD money that they will be reluctant to spend.

You're putting the onus on FD and expecting them to do what you can do better. Why not just ask to be facilitated in doing it yourself? You're more likely to get what you ask for and the result will be more beneficial in the end.

No one expects that goons won't goon. But goons soon tire of their gooning, and find a new outlet. I propose we do just that. Create Open-PvE, let those that intend to goon get it out of their system and move on.

An Open-PvE option is not intended to protect us all from the all powerful grief makers. Those who can't create seek to destroy. The griefers have no endurance. They do their grandstand play, and wither, Dental is an STO joke now. So will the clowns that do their demonstrations in any Open-PvE mode.

There is no reason to deny a Open-PvE because of an ability to attract attention. That you can find this many examples, and that games go on as if nothing happened, surly means nothing really happens. A cute video is made, some chests swell with pride, and the rest of the gaming goes on, unaware. I'm willing to let the goons have their moment in space, to have an Open-PvE mode. I'm sure all of the other players, in those other games didn't abandon gaming over any of that goonish behavior.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Funny, I currently play FF XIV, I played Wildstar, I played STO.. in NONE OF THEM in all the combined years I played them have I been griefed and in none of them is it a OPEN PVP area. Each had certain areas you can PVP or flags. Heck in FF XIV you can only PVP in an arena. What game have I been griefed repeatedly.. EVE.. where has it been attempted.. ED..

Which means.... What? Your experience is one out of millions. More people have experienced the opposite than share your fond remembrances. It's not exactly an isolated problem.

No one expects that goons won't goon. But goons soon tire of their gooning, and find a new outlet. I propose we do just that. Create Open-PvE, let those that intend to goon get it out of their system and move on.

An Open-PvE option is not intended to protect us all from the all powerful grief makers. Those who can't create seek to destroy. The griefers have no endurance. They do their grandstand play, and wither, Dental is an STO joke now. So will the clowns that do their demonstrations in any Open-PvE mode.

There is no reason to deny a Open-PvE because of an ability to attract attention. That you can find this many examples, and that games go on as if nothing happened, surly means nothing really happens. A cute video is made, some chests swell with pride, and the rest of the gaming goes on, unaware. I'm willing to let the goons have their moment in space, to have an Open-PvE mode. I'm sure all of the other players, in those other games didn't abandon gaming over any of that goonish behavior.

Not the point. My point is that nearly everyone in this thread who thinks that this is a good idea thinks that it is going to be just as effective as Mobius. In reality it is going to fall far, far short of their expectations because it is not going to be implemented in the way they envision it and it is going to draw attention not just briefly as you describe, but daily.

 

[Mouse]

Which means.... What? Your experience is one out of millions. More people have experienced the opposite than share your fond remembrances. It's not exactly an isolated problem.

Actually it is the exact opposite, More people have shared my experiences than have been "griefed' in those games, especially in FF XIV. You are trying to make it seem that your play style is the norm which is not. PVP in those games are controlled, but in EVE it isn't and it is where your play style thrives and why a lot of people left the game.

 

[Dave1235]

While the introduction of any Private Group management features at all would be desirable, how would accepting players into and kicking transgressors out of a Private Group be any better than an Open-PvE mode that anyone can join (and anyone who transgresses can be banned from for a fixed period or, possibly, permanently)?

The game itself could look at a player's stats and determine that that player initiates PvP, what their player kill proportion is and what their player/NPC kill ratio is if necessary. The game could also auto-kick players from Open-PvE for any direct PvP actions - this would save time and effort compared to a Private Group manager reacting to a complaint, seeking evidence then kicking a player as required (then dealing with the likely complaint that the player in question had done nothing wrong and should not have been kicked). The game could also automatically fully reimburse a player who lost their ship / cargo / etc. to a PvP attack - a Private Group manager would be unlikely to be able to do that....

There have been a lot of good ideas on how an open PVE group could work, I think your example, if FD can get the game to handle the moderation adds even more merit to the idea.

I would be absolutely fine (some wouldn't, but that's a different topic) if I got PK'd in Open PVE group, IF I knew that I would suffer no loss and the person doing it would face consequences (some sort of tick box where they agree to the rules first). A fine multiplied by the insurance and a ban of at least 6 months, 2 strikes is a permanent ban.

Even if a particular group decided to make it their mission to invade and gank there would need to be a lot of them if they only got 2 chances, 6 months apart (and if they do it a second time they should get a serious fine as well as the perma ban, maybe proportional to their total assets, that would sting).

Using Mobius as an example with nearly 11k players, even if the PVE mode only had that many players it would take a lot of organised gankers to even make a dent, I think most people would laugh and think "well that's one less to bother someone else" as they rebuy their ship for zero credits and still have all their bounty's / data intact.

I think the PVE option might attract players away from open, I also think it will attract some from groups and possibly solo for too, the best thing is it will give players a more informed choice about how they play.

 

[Reaper99]

No one expects that goons won't goon. But goons soon tire of their gooning, and find a new outlet. I propose we do just that. Create Open-PvE, let those that intend to goon get it out of their system and move on.

An Open-PvE option is not intended to protect us all from the all powerful grief makers. Those who can't create seek to destroy. The griefers have no endurance. They do their grandstand play, and wither, Dental is an STO joke now. So will the clowns that do their demonstrations in any Open-PvE mode.

There is no reason to deny a Open-PvE because of an ability to attract attention. That you can find this many examples, and that games go on as if nothing happened, surly means nothing really happens. A cute video is made, some chests swell with pride, and the rest of the gaming goes on, unaware. I'm willing to let the goons have their moment in space, to have an Open-PvE mode. I'm sure all of the other players, in those other games didn't abandon gaming over any of that goonish behavior.

I have to say I remember the goons from EVE...and CODE...groups found ways of disposing of the problems when confronted..lots of slagged ships...course this was all based on nothing more than backround software...deciding on a certain percentage based on learned skill...

ED is different...you don't hit your target if you cant control your ship...there is some personal skill involved.

1. a truth...no one but no one likes griefers...unless you are the one griefing...somehow you get a kick out of it...you being "generally" used not refrencing any person or the original poster
2. griefers are types that go to a game for one specific purpose...to make themselves feel good at another's expense while robbing said person of their enjoyment. No other reason...they can and will rationalize this ...just like a person who torments defenseless animals ...there is an underlying problem...ask them why and they will give very intellectually sounding reasoning behind these actions. They however are not sound.
3. A post said if you let everyone or anybody in you have to be willing to deal with what that entails....that is a completely illogical assumption...but we all make em sometimes...but I will elucidate.

By allowing everyone in does not mean allowing all actions that some may want to impose. there is a code of conduct that the "anybody" has to follow...the difference is the "who" enforcing it.

any clear cut answers to this issues...no not really ...they all have pros and cons.

or you can be like me...I'm a carebear...hear me roar...or not it is space after all...pull me out of super cruise and attack...I'll bite back...and we will dance...I prefer npc's not for lack of challenge...but I'm a caring bear....but I'm just as good with a human target...and sometimes...its more fun.

for those that will decide to protect those that are new starting or lets face it...just not combat oriented...eventually the types that cause trouble move on...or get harried back.

for clarification...pirates who pilliage and plunder...and still kill ya after taking your cargo...it aint fun and maybe kinda irritating...but it can happen...well they do the pirate thing...most traders get it...and Bounty hunters love em!!!..have fun...do what we enjoy doing...if you come hunting me...I'll have a drink with you later after the fire works...I don't hual so...im well insured for any loss I may incure and my wing mates...we aren't stupid lol...one on one is fine if agreed...but getting pack jumped...well good wolves hunt in packs...specially profitable ones

Peace and prosperity by any means!!!

 

[Dave1235]

No one expects that goons won't goon. But goons soon tire of their gooning, and find a new outlet. I propose we do just that. Create Open-PvE, let those that intend to goon get it out of their system and move on.

An Open-PvE option is not intended to protect us all from the all powerful grief makers. Those who can't create seek to destroy. The griefers have no endurance. They do their grandstand play, and wither, Dental is an STO joke now. So will the clowns that do their demonstrations in any Open-PvE mode.

There is no reason to deny a Open-PvE because of an ability to attract attention. That you can find this many examples, and that games go on as if nothing happened, surly means nothing really happens. A cute video is made, some chests swell with pride, and the rest of the gaming goes on, unaware. I'm willing to let the goons have their moment in space, to have an Open-PvE mode. I'm sure all of the other players, in those other games didn't abandon gaming over any of that goonish behavior.

They can all have their moment, I would even let them have a second moment if they can cover the fine, but they only ever get one "second chance" they won't be able to repeat it, 6 month ban first PK, life ban for the second, with a fine of 50% of your total worth, you cant change ships until you paid the piper if your bank account can't cover the fine.

I do think FD put some serious thought into this long before the first line of code was written. Gotta love their foresight.