Opinion: Engineers is a side activity which rewards varied playing style

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Reading all kind of discussions, pleas, demands, threads about Engineers it feels like people still don't try to understand it, maybe even just because they are going trough emotions, trying to force it to become what it's not. It happens all the time, but it is very visible with Engineers.

So my opinion seeing how it all works is this - Engineers is side activity (not main one, it is clearly not an mandatory upgrade path) which rewards having varied play style or "life" in ED universe.

It is system designed as anti-thesis of "consuming content". It is not really a content per se, it is mechanism which together with assets adds new gameplay, and thus content. It trades clear min/max paths with variations of outcomes. You get bonus...but you don't know what kind of bonus you get, and grinding for it is quite taunting task. Probability gates are there to avoid players get specific upgrade (as I said, not a mandatory upgrade path), but get upgrade nevertheless.

Why I like it? It doesn't force me into mandatory upgrade mill, yet it can give me boost in interesting ways. I also love collecting materials (I love looting, FD has done it right) and it gives some context and ideas how and why to do it.

Why some people might not like it? Well, min/maxers will definitely not like it, as it is clear anti-thesis of calculated paths towards upgrades, they most likely will struggle to understand concept of this. Pure PvP fans will most likely avoid Engineer mods in combative dogfights as they want equal standing. "Griefers" will loath it and love it in same time, but with buffed NPCs I think they will have more issues on their hands. People locking themselves in specific roles will try to understand why they should bother.

I think main point is - you don't. None of ED systems added are mandatory (same as roles - they arent, so why Engineer mods should be). However, if you hit it right with one of them, you are in treat.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Yes. It is not proper new content.

The mistake was making a side-activity central by initially giving NPCs the Engineer's upgrades.

Now that that is removed from NPCs with the server side tweak, it will probably fall back into a side activity like Power Play - an activity I haven't participated in either.

Personally I am still waiting for proper content, rather than options.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yes. It is not proper new content.

The mistake was making a side-activity central by initially giving NPCs the Engineer's upgrades.

Now that is removed from NPCs, it will probably fall back into a side activity like Power Play - an activity I haven't participated in either.

Personally I am still waiting for content, rather than options.

It is content, new gameplay is content for ED. ED is heavily 'doing stuff' game. That's the hole point.

 

[Thetele]

For me engineers aren't side activity why? Because engineers are the new contend in 2.1 update. Other changes like to missions etc. didn't make them interesting. i have done those same missions for 1.5 years now. They are still same missions as before just some new paint on top. Engineers are new and add something new to game that we didn't have before. More customization options to do what you want with your ship to make other "old" contend feel different. Thats why grind for engineers is bad. Also by doing engineers on side there is no way to me to find stuff i need for modifications. I have materials for 4 different modifications and i have played about 4 hours every day since engineers launched. I need to stop doing what i like to do and did before engineers to get materials for modifications i want.

 

[piranha9]

So my opinion seeing how it all works is this - Engineers is side activity (not main one, it is clearly not an mandatory upgrade path) which rewards having varied play style or "life" in ED universe.

Thats pretty much exactly how i see the engineers, too.
It will probably take me until the end of the year to get all the modifications i want for my ship, and thats totally fine. i am not in a hurry.

Just gathering materials from all kind of activities i do in the game, and from time to time check out the engineers if i can upgrade something.

 

[K-Rose]

Copied from the other thread but to clarify my issue isnt with the engineers, its with the collection of materials.

Just had to come in and say I get to play 4-6 hours a week. I just spent my 2 hour Thursday session looking for USS to find 4 components which all spawn from destroyed ships.

I hate to constantly cite World of Warcraft but there the crafting was deep enough, but you knew where to find iron ore, you knew where to get gems, if you needed rune cloth you knew you could go places and get maybe 4 pieces per kill. The difference is the items took a higher quantity to make, but at least you felt in control.

Here in Elite it's random, random that the USS will be correct, random that the specific materials will be spawned in the instance. I said it when they first announced Engineers, I have never liked any implementation of RNG crafting, it's a grind and not satisfying at all.

Don't say you can ignore Engineers because I don't want to, I want to craft, I want to make my ship slightly unique to my taste, I just also want to come from a 2 hour session and feel like I've made progress. Tonight I made zero progress to my aim of crafting a level 2 item to increase my rep towards level 3

 

[Iskariot]

For me Engineers, just like PP, is an important element of the game.
Both add to the general feel of the universe and add game play options and a background that I would hate to see removed.

I do think however that PP needs a lot more work to become interesting for a certain type of player that is not in it for the PvP, but just for the extra fluff and background story PP adds to the universe.
I'd like to do special missions for Powers and even engage in common power play activities , but I do not care about whether Powers expand or shrink or whatever.
I also do not care for the atrocious merit decay, but that is a different story.

Engineers is side activity (not main one, it is clearly not an mandatory upgrade path)

I feel when you play in open it certainly is a mandatory upgrade path.
I am a soloist, but always played in Open. I am not aggressive and I never attack other players. I only defend myself if needed.
Currently I have switched to solo because of the Engineers update.
I do not intend to get into an arms race and I might not visit an engineer for a long time to come.
I think the few confrontations I had with aggressive players might have gone differently if they had had Engineered ships.
I just do not wish to take the risk.

As a soloist I am already at a disadvantage because I can not Wing up with NPC, and from what I understood in the near future I will not be able to enjoy multicrew with NPC either.
It all adds up. And the risk of playing in Open is growing with all these add ons that have nothing to offer for relatively peaceful soloists like me.

 

[Archvillain]

Engineers definitely shine as a source of "side quests" for me.
You go about your main goal or activity, but whenever that brings you near an opportunity to get this or that blueprint material, I'll be tempted to go slightly out of my way and explore/scoop/whatever before resuming my "main quest". Maybe I get good stuff, maybe I don't, either way I didn't go too far out of my way to do it. It's a nice additional layer of activity added on top of everything else I'm doing.

Then at some point out of the blue, you get everything you need for a nice custom module... a sweet bonus! (Just as soon as you "Turn In!" the side mission)

If I tried to grind Engineers I don't think I'd have much fun with that, but I like the way they work from an unexpected-bonuses perspectives, and it's too soon to tell but I think I'll like how they shake up the outfitting and ship variety.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Copied from the other thread but to clarify my issue isnt with the engineers, its with the collection of materials.

Just had to come in and say I get to play 4-6 hours a week. I just spent my 2 hour Thursday session looking for USS to find 4 components which all spawn from destroyed ships.

I hate to constantly cite World of Warcraft but there the crafting was deep enough, but you knew where to find iron ore, you knew where to get gems, if you needed rune cloth you knew you could go places and get maybe 4 pieces per kill. The difference is the items took a higher quantity to make, but at least you felt in control.

Here in Elite it's random, random that the USS will be correct, random that the specific materials will be spawned in the instance. I said it when they first announced Engineers, I have never liked any implementation of RNG crafting, it's a grind and not satisfying at all.

Don't say you can ignore Engineers because I don't want to, I want to craft, I want to make my ship slightly unique to my taste, I just also want to come from a 2 hour session and feel like I've made progress. Tonight I made zero progress to my aim of crafting a level 2 item to increase my rep towards level 3

Agreed. I've enjoyed crafting in many other games - F4, WoW, but it never seemed like a dice roll - it was built into the game. It is the template model of ED that is its great fallback - they have no idea who you are, or your history.

 

[Rankaze]

For the combat pilot, there really isn't any such thing as "not mandatory " - if your enemy has a capability, and you don't, you must pursue that capability (or some other capability which neutralizes that capability). Combat is, at the logistical, strategic, and tactical level, the pursit of advantage. Surrender any advantage at your peril.

I'll be honest - I'm severely annoyed that laser weapon upgrades are locked behind a wall of illegal activity. Dealing in illegal goods is not something my current commander would do--he is a very prinncipled individual--and so at least for now I have no way to improve my preferred weapons.

The fact that armor upgrades are gated behind the single most boring activity in the game (mining) also annoys me severely. Lightweight hull reinforcement is one of the single most potentially useful upgrades for me as I fly mostly small ships with very tight mass tolerances... and if I want it, I have to go submit myself to hours on end of drudgery.

Fortunately for FD, the new AI has made combat so much fun that my gratitude has largely cancelled out my annoyance. Add in the woonderful addition of the new Enhanced Performance Thrusters, and my overall view of 2.1 comes out on the positive side in spite of how much I dislike the Engineers system as a whole.

 

[Belthize]

Yes. It is not proper new content.

The mistake was making a side-activity central by initially giving NPCs the Engineer's upgrades.

Now that that is removed from NPCs with the server side tweak, it will probably fall back into a side activity like Power Play - an activity I haven't participated in either.

Personally I am still waiting for proper content, rather than options.

You mean 3.0.

2.0 was Horizons, 2.1 is a minor additional content patch as are 2.2 and 2.3. The next major content will be the next season.

For me Engineers is fantastic for a mid season 'minor' content patch.

 

[Cliffson]

An interesting opinion I can relate too as I can see how the engineers could be designed to be played that way. I have a feeling that the best way to fully appreciate this would be from scratch starting out then as you pick up materials here and there you'll then have a good start once you reach the engineers. I want to test this but my secondary account doesn't have horizons :/.

I suspect part of the problem is that people who now have everything now only have the "grind" for materials to focus on.

 

[sonichi813]

+1, Engineers was designed for the long run, not an activity that you can do as your main task and make real progress in a matter of hours or days. I believe FD never intended the average player to be cruising the black with every module with class 5 mods. Mods are supposed to be a rare upgrade, not a given reward.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

You mean 3.0.

2.0 was Horizons, 2.1 is a minor additional content patch as are 2.2 and 2.3. The next major content will be the next season.

For me Engineers is fantastic for a mid season 'minor' content patch.

So now we're waiting for 3.0?

Isn't 2 years waiting enough?

And, as for taking it cool and accepting materials as you play, if they can't be stored (as discussed elsewhere), if you immerse yourself in this dangerous gameplay, you can lose the whole lot!

I think I'll wait for 7.0

 

[piranha9]

Copied from the other thread but to clarify my issue isnt with the engineers, its with the collection of materials.

Just had to come in and say I get to play 4-6 hours a week. I just spent my 2 hour Thursday session looking for USS to find 4 components which all spawn from destroyed ships.

I hate to constantly cite World of Warcraft but there the crafting was deep enough, but you knew where to find iron ore, you knew where to get gems, if you needed rune cloth you knew you could go places and get maybe 4 pieces per kill. The difference is the items took a higher quantity to make, but at least you felt in control.

Here in Elite it's random, random that the USS will be correct, random that the specific materials will be spawned in the instance. I said it when they first announced Engineers, I have never liked any implementation of RNG crafting, it's a grind and not satisfying at all.

Don't say you can ignore Engineers because I don't want to, I want to craft, I want to make my ship slightly unique to my taste, I just also want to come from a 2 hour session and feel like I've made progress. Tonight I made zero progress to my aim of crafting a level 2 item to increase my rep towards level 3

I don't see this complete randomness.
Yes, the USS might be pretty random, ok, but a lot of the materials have a precise description where to get them (like from hauling ships, military ships, etc).
Get a FSD interdictor and chase these specific ships, and you will get your materials soon (tm).

Some other materials might be rarer, and we currently don't know exactly how to get them, but i am sure this will change over time, people will find more and more of them and can make conclusions where to get them. Thats a matter of patience and willingness to learn.

 

[Archvillain]

I have a feeling that the best way to fully appreciate this would be from scratch starting out then as you pick up materials here and there you'll then have a good start once you reach the engineers.

I suspect part of the problem is that people who now have everything now only have the "grind" for materials to focus on.

Both of these are good points.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Yes because in principle thats how it makes the most sense.
No because of how much time has been spent on it, suggests its meant to more centric.
Yes because to concentrate on it is a path to unbearable grind.
No because you are forced into numerous interactions, over a short period of time because you quickly run out of onboard storage space whilst going about your everyday business.

Thats the issue we, as players are dealing with in my opinion, what the devs think its meant to be, what we think its meant to be and what it actually is are currently different.

 

[K-Rose]

I don't see this complete randomness.
Yes, the USS might be pretty random, ok, but a lot of the materials have a precise description where to get them (like from hauling ships, military ships, etc).
Get a FSD interdictor and chase these specific ships, and you will get your materials soon (tm).

Some other materials might be rarer, and we currently don't know exactly how to get them, but i am sure this will change over time, people will find more and more of them and can make conclusions where to get them. Thats a matter of patience and willingness to learn.

And I followed those descriptions for 2 hours and didn't find a single material I needed. Judging by what others say maybe I just need to take a break from the game for a bit, or reset my save :-/

 

[Rankaze]

+1, Engineers was designed for the long run, not an activity that you can do as your main task and make real progress in a matter of hours or days. I believe FD never intended the average player to be cruising the black with every module with class 5 mods. Mods are supposed to be a rare upgrade, not a given reward.

I'm not looking to upgrade every module. I want to upgrade the few modules which offer me the benefits I perceive as most useful. Unfortunately, many of those mods are exactly the ones I cannot access because of my playstyle!

 

[Funny]

Anyone playing this game claiming that Engineers are a side-activity is really dumb. I mean, why make the main focus of a patch that is meant to boost sales by a significant amount after the fairly long delay a mere side-activity? Especially one with such a heavy marketing campaign? Answer: they wouldn't. Engineers are clearly meant to be the way to play the game, whether you like it or not. It's the last bit that causes the problems.