Opinions on combat logging

[Rampant]

I don't have an issue with the 15 second timer. I'm not sure how I feel about increasing it, I don't have enough experience in the matter. I agree the airlift option should be there. I don't call that Combat Logging. CLing is pulling the plug (by any means that's equivalent, force close, whatever).

However, what CMDR Ultra said in the first place was about branding people who flee from combat by non-game methods, and that covers both cases, 15 sec timer and plug pullers, and as I sit and think about that, I agree. Why did you click open if you didn't want the possibility of that? BUT, there are degrees. If you are unreasonably set upon by a horde of gankers with a wafer thin RP reason that just sounds like a load of guff, and they won't let you flee by game methods, go ahead use the 15 sec timer, I won't brand you, that has nothing to do with the kind of gameplay I support. In this case, I could encourage, for the good of the game, people to report such incidents as griefing (if they are). Engaging in battle then doing a brave sir robin of any kind in order to avoid the consequences of losing is not taking your lessons like a man in the context I intended. Logging out on blatant gankers is something else, and while I wouldn't do it, I don't have a big issue with it either.

I think we probably have common ground there if I understood your analogy correctly.

For the record, I haven't ever used the 15 sec to escape
PvP combat or any combat. But I defend its use because it is part and parcel of this game.
I hope you read about my Open experiment and me even cancelling a low wake timer when I was about to enter SC in order that the Code players had the longest opportunity to manifest scan to discover I had no cargo. I took a rebuy for the sake of science and confirming my suspicions about PvP combat being not exactly my cup of tea. Among other suspicions.

Ultimately, my extension of your Jungle analogy was to illustrate that FDev have chosen to lump all social gameplay into a mode that includes the distinct possibility - inevitability even - that "social players" who have no interest in PvP combat have PvP combat thrust upon them. Solo and PG are not fitting alternatives for "social players". So the fact that FDev have included a 15 sec airlift from the Jungle is a good thing, because it ensures that the maximum number of players contribute funds toward the development of the game.
I'm pretty much an exclusive Mobius player. However, I do have a dog in this fight because I want E!D to continue to be funded as much and as long as possible. The 15 sec timer contributes toward that aim, I think.

 

[Siobhan]

Modes don't matter unless there was a pure PvE mode - is that where you're trying to steer?
The lady doth protest too much, methinks (about something she's admitted she know's nowt about).

Pretty much. I was responding to a post saying that we weren't mentioning modes, so I said without a PvE enforced mode it doesn't matter. ED isn't written to enforce PvE at all, they assumed friendly Pgs could manage themselves, but of course that's not possible before the fact and FD won't help. As to protesting too much, I beg to disagree. Until there is an enforced PvE multilayer mode, then as far as the CL vs griefer/ganker/carebear/whatever is concerned, there is only open or restricted open.

We need to abolish the logout timer, create a proper PvE mode (I don't care if its default or not so long as PvP and PvE are clearly labelled) and then you can block CL all you like in PvP modes. But right now, it's "be someone else's content" or "go solo"

 

[Perseus]

Pretty much. I was responding to a post saying that we weren't mentioning modes, so I said without a PvE enforced mode it doesn't matter. ED isn't written to enforce PvE at all, they assumed friendly Pgs could manage themselves, but of course that's not possible before the fact and FD won't help. As to protesting too much, I beg to disagree. Until there is an enforced PvE multilayer mode, then as far as the CL vs griefer/ganker/carebear/whatever is concerned, there is only open or restricted open.

We need to abolish the logout timer, create a proper PvE mode (I don't care if its default or not so long as PvP and PvE are clearly labelled) and then you can block CL all you like in PvP modes. But right now, it's "be someone else's content" or "go solo"

Fair enough and thank you for being honest about your desires.
I disagree about a PvE mode, of course, but this is a personal gaming preference in context to ED.

 

[Rampant]

Constant use of the word 'authority'? Do you use it, per chance, in an attempt to give your own good self some of it?
You have the authority to hit that solo mode. Or the numerous PGs.
Where is your dog in this fight exactly (and a chicken ain't a dog, by the way- I have that on authority).

No.
I use the word authority to affirm that none of us, including myself, should "interpret" FDev's intent, beyond that set by FDev.
At work, where I have a rule-based protocol, that is set by my superiors, I often find myself reminding my superiors of the rules handed down to us. Not because I have bought into the rules, per se, but because I despise my superiors trying to subvert the rules that apply to us all because they happen to be inconvenient at the time.

Nice try at at hominem, but ultimately you missed the target.

See my previous post reference my dog in this fight. It probably isn't what you assumed.

Ciao for now.

Mark H

 

[Rampant]

Fair enough and thank you for being honest about your desires.
I disagree about a PvE mode, of course, but this is a personal gaming preference in context to ED.

Thanks for being honest about your personal preference. It does serve to highlight a personal bias that you may have.

 

[Perseus]

No.
I use the word authority to affirm that none of us, including myself, should "interpret" FDev's intent, beyond that set by FDev.
At work, where I have a rule-based protocol, that is set by my superiors, I often find myself reminding my superiors of the rules handed down to us. Not because I have bought into the rules, per se, but because I despise my superiors trying to subvert the rules that apply to us all because they happen to be inconvenient at the time.

Nice try at at hominem, but ultimately you missed the target.

See my previous post reference my dog in this fight. It probably isn't what you assumed.

Ciao for now.

Mark H

No, amico, penso di aver centrato l'obiettivo!
Abito in Italia pero sono inglese. Ciao e' arrievederci alla prossima.
Sorry to any Italians if I butchered the language there - sto imperando!

 

[Perseus]

Thanks for being honest about your personal preference. It does serve to highlight a personal bias that you may have.

Thank you!
I'm glad you recognize my bias for NOT CHEATING.
Big kiss. >smack<

 

[lenna]

We're only talking about using the menu.
There's nobody here on either side of the argument thinks alt-f4 or equivalent is right... The only problem there is that being p2p its been proven already that one can force another player to disconnect by technical means. The data is available should you wish to look it up.

What you are talking about in that case is actually a gross violation of the EULA for ED specifically (and possibly a violation of the T&Cs for their ISP), the P2P architecture is irrelevant to the overall matter at hand though - what you are talking about is not the kind of combat logging that most are probably complaining about.

As for exiting the game via the menu, regardless of the QQing of some it is legitimate action (in itself) regardless of the circumstances. Just as would be high waking. However, if any given player is repeatedly menu logging to avoid PvP circumstances then perhaps they should consider playing in game modes where they would not be subject to PvP incidents. This is not because they are personally doing anything wrong, just it would perhaps stop the complaining from some quarters. Any PvPer who uses the menu logging to avoid consequences of involving themselves in PvP circumstances are not doing anything wrong per se, but they should probably reconsider whether PvP is truly their thing.

 

[Rampant]

No, amico, penso di aver centrato l'obiettivo!
Abito in Italia pero sono inglese. Ciao e' arrievederci alla prossima.
Sorry to any Italians if I butchered the language there - sto imperando!

scusa non parlo italiano

 

[Rampant]

Thank you!
I'm glad you recognize my bias for NOT CHEATING.
Big kiss. >smack<

I wasn't referring to any propensity for cheating. But you probably knew that already.

I was referring, of course, to your comment on a PvE mode, which can be pretty telling, no?

 

[sewerratuk]

What you are talking about in that case is actually a gross violation of the EULA for ED specifically (and possibly a violation of the T&Cs for their ISP), the P2P architecture is irrelevant to the overall matter at hand though - what you are talking about is not the kind of combat logging that most are probably complaining about.

As for exiting the game via the menu, regardless of the QQing of some it is legitimate action (in itself) regardless of the circumstances. Just as would be high waking. However, if any given player is repeatedly menu logging to avoid PvP circumstances then perhaps they should consider playing in game modes where they would not be subject to PvP incidents. This is not because they are personally doing anything wrong, just it would perhaps stop the complaining from some quarters. Any PvPer who uses the menu logging to avoid consequences of involving themselves in PvP circumstances are not doing anything wrong per se, but they should probably reconsider whether PvP is truly their thing.

Holy chink in the armour batman! I can almost see you acknowledging an alternative opinion.
Would you like a chair at the Brexit negotiations

 

[Sylveria]

The moment you apply a pattern detection,
you give players a hidden mechanic to look into and play with.

It is akin to the points you can gather violating the laws applying
to driving a car in a certain way and depth.

I am inclined to wish for humans checking out these incidents, not pattern
analysis tools, which can be fooled, by testing out the waters and spreading the news.

In short:
This game is a MMO, where are the GMs?!

Indeed! I've yet to have a GM contact me in Solo! Preposterous, I tell you!

 

[lenna]

I can almost see you acknowledging an alternative opinion.

Menu logging is not cheating, nor is it doing anything wrong, but I can understand why some pure-PvEers may feel playing in Open is the only option for them - menu logging is a fair and reasonable action in their case.

Those who play in Open for PvP though should probably not be habitually using menu logging though.

This has been my position all along - nothing has changed on that score.

I rank those that complain about menu logging being cheating roughly on par with those that claim ALL PvPers are griefers - neither view is correct.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I'd like to propose a new way of thinking about the combat logging epidemic.

Hereafter, we should focus on wombat logging.

As we all know, the majority of Elite: Dangerous players are both Australian and stupid. Therefore, given the P2P-spaghetticode-OMFG-kangaroo game that FDev have written, I vote we all boycott the game until fractions are implemented into the BGS.

 

[sewerratuk]

Menu logging is not cheating, nor is it doing anything wrong, but I can understand why some pure-PvEers may feel playing in Open is the only option for them - menu logging is a fair and reasonable action in their case.

Those who play in Open for PvP though should probably not be habitually using menu logging though.

This has been my position all along - nothing has changed on that score.

I rank those that complain about menu logging being cheating roughly on par with those that claim ALL PvPers are griefers - neither view is correct.

A slight back track but I’m happy that normal service has been resumed

 

[the100thmonkey]

A slight back track but I’m happy that normal service has been resumed

Clearly Australian...

 

[philngraves]

I'd like to propose a new way of thinking about the combat logging epidemic.

Hereafter, we should focus on wombat logging.

As we all know, the majority of Elite: Dangerous players are both Australian and stupid. Therefore, given the P2P-spaghetticode-OMFG-kangaroo game that FDev have written, I vote we all boycott the game until fractions are implemented into the BGS.

Not to be confused with 'Wombat Longing' which is a matter for either your therapist or a veterinarian.

 

[Cmdr Eran Mintor]

I used to hate combat logging and the people who do it but I've come to realize I can't hate combat logging anymore than I can the terrible multiplayer netcode/p2p crap so yea, don't care anymore. Combat log and exploit all you want I have bigger gripes.

 

[Mohrgan]

Not to be confused with 'Wombat Longing' which is a matter for either your therapist or a veterinarian.

Marsupials Unite!

 

[Bigmaec]

Because modes don't matter. The only mode that's not PvP is solo. Even when in for instance Mobius, PvE is agreed... When someone abuses the fact that they can't vet everyone and that FD won't help enforce it...
Basically open is PvP, pgs are PvP. Even Mobius is PvP... The only thing preventing PvP in solo is there's nobody to PvP with.
Modes are not the issue here.

In 1500 hours in Mobius I had not one "real" PvP event there. (Killstealing was the biggest offense, and padhogging)

I would have zero problems to insta-taskkill my game if someone in Mobius attacked me. If I die I'd sent an request for FD to reimburse my loss, and I'd block the offender.