Over trying to get AX combat.

Tarsonis

Tarsonis
This update spurred me into trying AX combat again, and I remembered why I don't do it. I actually spent time getting Guardian weapons, modules etc., and tried to get as close to a AX build as I could without spending weeks engineering everything. Every time I go up against a cyclops I am obliterated so fast I can't even practice, and have to pay out the nose to get my ship back. I get that you can help by evacuating people and moving supplies but that has gotten so stale as it's just jumping system to system rinse and repeat with nothing interesting. I get that they want Thargoids to be challenging but its a little crazy how much you have to do and learn to be able to stand a chance.

Thargoids are really the most interesting thing in the game right now and if you aren't participating in combat there isn't really anything you can do with them.
 

Astaran

Astaran
Tarsonis said:
This update spurred me into trying AX combat again, and I remembered why I don't do it. I actually spent time getting Guardian weapons, modules etc., and tried to get as close to a AX build as I could without spending weeks engineering everything. Every time I go up against a cyclops I am obliterated so fast I can't even practice, and have to pay out the nose to get my ship back. I get that you can help by evacuating people and moving supplies but that has gotten so stale as it's just jumping system to system rinse and repeat with nothing interesting. I get that they want Thargoids to be challenging but its a little crazy how much you have to do and learn to be able to stand a chance.

Thargoids are really the most interesting thing in the game right now and if you aren't participating in combat there isn't really anything you can do with them.
Click to expand...

You could start with fighting scouts first. They can be dealt with relatively easily with human AX weapons (e.g. AX Multicannons) and you don't need that much defensive engineering. In AXCZs (especially those around planetary ports) you can evade interceptors and focus on the scouts. When you take too much damange or run out of ammo you can dock and repair. If you're in Mobius PVE or one of the AX PGs you can join other CMDRs in AXCZs and fight interceptors in a team. Even without proper Guardian weapons, you can take care of scouts or help with overloading the interceptor's shield to kill it more quickly.
 

tolm

tolm
The really odd thing is that there are basically no “mechanics” at all for most enemies - just shoot ‘em ‘till they pop and maybe target some modules if you’re feeling fancy.

And then there’s the Interceptors:

  • Specialist weapons must be used
  • Lightning attack if you get too close
  • Shutdown field / neutralizer
  • Swarm / Flechette
  • Caustic missiles for DoT which must be cancelled / tanked
  • Heat management is waaaaay more critical
  • Self healing enemy
  • Exert the hearts then snipe them in order to defeat the above
  • Explodes leaving a caustic cloud

They danged sure just through ALL the mechanics at one enemy!

No lead up.

No graduated learning curve.

Nothing in between the Scouts and this that, say, has the heart mechanic but no swarm or shutdown field.

Which is a real shame because it means you can’t “learn” on slightly easier enemies or try a variety of difficulty opponents in order to balance the challenge vs your capability: it’s all or nothing!

TL;DR

For a lot of players, Scouts will be too easy / boring but the jump to Interceptor will be too hard.
 

Yure

Y
Tarsonis said:
This update spurred me into trying AX combat again, and I remembered why I don't do it. I actually spent time getting Guardian weapons, modules etc., and tried to get as close to a AX build as I could without spending weeks engineering everything. Every time I go up against a cyclops I am obliterated so fast I can't even practice, and have to pay out the nose to get my ship back. I get that you can help by evacuating people and moving supplies but that has gotten so stale as it's just jumping system to system rinse and repeat with nothing interesting. I get that they want Thargoids to be challenging but its a little crazy how much you have to do and learn to be able to stand a chance.

Thargoids are really the most interesting thing in the game right now and if you aren't participating in combat there isn't really anything you can do with them.
Click to expand...
Very unpopular opinion. Get a mamba. It is no good in AX combat... at least not in my hands. But I have Dirty Drives with Drag drives, and then some other engineering to stay cool. Man I tell you, I haven't taken out a thargoid interceptor yet... but they haven't taken me out neither. And more importantly I am learning, poking in and out trying to see how I can best fight them. Sometimes the best way to learn is to get out there and practice. But I definitely understand the frustration. Get a very fast ship. One that you can run when you need to.
 

tolm

tolm
deleteduser said:
The skill level of NPCs, the engineering level of their ships and the intellectual level of their tactics, is something that has been discussed ad-nauseum over the years.

The reason they are as they are is because players want to:

look at the pretty pictures
make more money
shoot other players

... without being eradicated by well kitted & competent NPCs every other jump. PvE'ers dont want it. PvP'ers dont want it.

That does of course leave some players, OP for instance, in a bind when it comes to the bugs.
On the other hand, access to the ability to almost 1-Tap a Cyclops, or to survive an encounter with one long enough to learn how they work - is well documented and within easy reach for anyone that wants it.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstand - I’m not saying you can’t put together a build that can survive an Interceptor nor am I complaining about the general NPC levels - there’s actually some progression between Low RES -> Haz RES -> CZs in terms of difficulty, albeit it essential just things becoming more bullet spongey.

I just think it’s odd do throw that many mechanics at one enemy - the Interceptor - without having some interim Thargoids, with just one or two mechanics, in between it and the Scouts.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
I was flying alongside @Jack Winter last night, above a surface port, doing unto Thargoids, for an hour or so.

We had some fun and took out 5 interceptors (the 8 million ones) as well as loads of scouts - good fun for me as I'm not an AX pilot, I was improving through the session in hitting with fixed AX weapons.

Play alongside a friend or 2 seems to be a reasonable idea, I do believe that had I been alone I'd have seen the rebuy screen more than the 2 times I did.

(That was in a Chieftain, which I have never flown before last night!)

Thanks, Jack!
 

He$$eeTant

He$$eeTant
deleteduser said:
The skill level of NPCs, the engineering level of their ships and the intellectual level of their tactics, is something that has been discussed ad-nauseum over the years.

The reason they are as they are is because players want to:

look at the pretty pictures
make more money
shoot other players

... without being eradicated by well kitted & competent NPCs every other jump. PvE'ers dont want it. PvP'ers dont want it.

That does of course leave some players, OP for instance, in a bind when it comes to the bugs.
On the other hand, access to the ability to almost 1-Tap a Cyclops, or to survive an encounter with one long enough to learn how they work - is well documented and within easy reach for anyone that wants it.
Click to expand...
In the original elite this is what made it fun, the fact you were not safe and had to plan how to get out of a full on Npc attack, which even then could result in another very hard to escape event. This game is too easy to escape almost everything - pick fast ship, press boost, hyperspace.
 

space voyager

space voyager
There are quite a few vids on AX fighting and you can get a decent feel on how it CAN be done. Doing it is quite a different matter though. I can deal with a Cyclops and this is my limit. I'm done trying to get higher, no watching the vids helps. I try to recreate what others are doing and somehow I still get hit and sooner or later I make a mistake and need to flee.
 

WeComeInPeace

WeComeInPeace
Tarsonis said:
I get that they want Thargoids to be challenging but its a little crazy how much you have to do and learn to be able to stand a chance.
Click to expand...
There's always the hauling as you mentioned :alien:

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Aganar

A
Ax combat may be intimidating. Key to fighting interceptors is in speed, agility, burst and temperature

To fight interceptors, you must be using lateral thrusters just as much as regular thrusters. Dont just fly straight at it, make orbit . You can easily do it even with flight assist on

Burst Is very important. More than dps. Get in, burst hull to eject heart, shoot it and get away.

Heat is very important. Try to get your heat under 20% and interceptor always misses if you use vertical lateral thrusters. Use heatsink to reduce heat when bursting, otherwise use heat vent beam laser. Long range
 
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