Pandora's box is open

[macronecu]

Pandora's box has opened!

Now that brown throated sloth is added to the game we learned that for frontier survivability in captivity is not limiting factor. Here is an description from slothconservation.org

"Breeding in captivity​

Three-fingered sloths are very delicate creatures and do not thrive in captivity. Most three-fingered sloths are very likely to die within a few months of being captured and do not live long enough or are healthy enough, to breed."

Sloth Mating: Not as slow as you think - SloCo

It is rare for anyone to witness sloths in the act of mating. What there is to know on the topic, however, can be found in the Slothopedia!

slothconservation.org

This opens many possibilities that before seem impossible. Which ones do you like to see in the game?

• Indri
• Mountain gorilla
• Marine iguana
• Narwhal
• Leatherback sea turtle
• Great white shark
• Pink fairy armadillo
• Javan rhino
• Swordfish
• Giant squid
• Saola
• Ethiopian wolf
• Three toed sloth (strike through because now in game)

Also some others that already survive in captivity, or survive in native range, or don't breed, but is illegal or hot topic. These should be even easier to add.

• Orca
• Kakapo
• Sumatran rhino
• Dolphins
• Beluga
• Proboscis monkey (strike through because in game)
• Goliath frog (strike through because in game)
• Pronghorn? (strike through because in game)
• Titan beetle (strike through because in game)

Which ones you want? Or any species I missed?

 

[Fossa]

Saiga and Leopard Seal are a MUST, unique animals that are much more needed than crocodile, black bear, leopard, giraffe, lion, zebra or monkey #10

Black bear = American, not the spectacled which is very unique and special

 

[HeatherG]

Thread has been moved to General Discussion and title changed as requested.

 

[sympatrick]

Hot take, but I don't prefer animals that are difficult to keep in captivity over animals that are realistically possible to keep. I didn't understand why Frontier chose brown-throated sloth over two-toed either, maybe they didn't know three-toed sloths don't fare well in captivity? Possibly they could have thought three-toed sloths are rare in captivity for other reasons, like availability, as Frontier avoided difficult or impossible to keep species until now, as what seemed like a principle.

That being said, I am not against species that are technically possible to keep, but are rare in captivity for other reasons. I would like to see the Sumatran rhino for instance.

 

[SalamAnders]

There have been animals not known to breed in captivity since the base game, such as the Titan Beetle.
That door has always been open.

 

[Leaf Productions]

Shut the damn box. Never wanted it open in the first place. Tell Pandora to get her act together.

 

[sympatrick]

There have been animals not known to breed in captivity since the base game, such as the Titan Beetle.
That door has always been open.

The issue with three-toed sloths is beyond breeding in captivity though, it's also about welfare, since they don't survive for long in captivity, or have health issues if they do.

 

[SalamAnders]

The issue with three-toed sloths is beyond breeding in captivity though, it's also about welfare, since they don't survive for long in captivity, or have health issues if they do.

I still don't see how the sloth changes anything about what animals we can expect, besides from non-flying mammals now being a thing in exhibits.
Frontier can make any animal healthy and breeding in Planet Zoo, since in a videogame it is a matter of coding and not real-life biology. The question is if they should.
But that we see animal species in PZ that you can't- or rarely find in captivity in real life is nothing new.

 

[sympatrick]

I still don't see how the sloth changes anything about what animals we can expect, besides from non-flying mammals now being a thing in exhibits.
Frontier can make any animal healthy and breeding in Planet Zoo, since in a videogame it is a matter of coding and not real-life biology. The question is if they should.
But that we see animal species in PZ that you can't- or rarely find in captivity in real life is nothing new.

It's just a personal preference, I guess. Some people even want extinct species. Personally, I don't have an issue with rare species, as long as they are not extinct or have serious welfare questions around them, which the brown-throated sloth has. That's what makes it unique in that regard.

 

[SalamAnders]

It's just a personal preference, I guess. Some people even want extinct species. Personally, I don't have an issue with rare species, as long as they are not extinct or have serious welfare questions around them, which the brown-throated sloth has. That's what makes it unique in that regard.

I'm not interested in unrealistic choices myself either. All I'm saying is that the sloth is not the first.

 

[sympatrick]

I'm not interested in unrealistic choices myself neither. All I'm saying is that the sloth is not the first.

It might not be the first in terms of breeding in captivity, but if I'm not mistaken there are no other animals in the game that don't typically survive in captivity?

Just to clarify, when I said "availability" in my original comment, that includes issues with availability resulting from lack of breeding in captivity, which makes it difficult to maintain a sustainable captive population for zoos worldwide, without constantly taking animals from the wild. Brown-throated sloth indeed isn't new in that regard, which made me think it could have played a part in the decision of including them in the game, assuming the developers didn't know three-toed sloths don't fare well in captivity. That could have led them to think adding this particular species wouldn't change anything, since we already have animals that are rare in captivity or don't breed.

 

[SalamAnders]

It might not be the first in terms of breeding in captivity, but if I'm not mistaken there are no other animals in the game that don't typically survive in captivity?

The titan beetle lives most of its life as a larvae, yet the larvae have never been found. The attempts to keep titan beetles in captivity have been with adult animals.

''The adults live for a short span upon emerging from the pupa, dying right after mating.''
So if you capture an adult, you basically capture an animal already ready to die.
As long as we don't know how to make them breed, we can't keep them in captivity.

And while three-toed sloths most of the time don't do well in captivity, there are few examples of them staying alive for longer periods.
So I don't see how the sloth changes anything regarding the view on realism.

 

[FoxyDee]

I am curious about why the Sloths do not do well in captivity, beside the thing that they do not breed, why do they die? More so, why is the same not happening to their two-toed cousins? Do they have any specialized diet? Because google just say that they both eat leaves.

 

[sympatrick]

So if you capture an adult, you basically capture an animal already ready to die.

That's still part of the animal's natural life cycle, though. A sloth expected to live thirty-forty years dying in a few months on average makes them different to animals that don't breed in captivity and die due to short life spans, like the titan beetle. By the way I edited my previous response for clarification.

I am curious about why the Sloths do not do well in captivity, beside the thing that they do not breed, why do they die? More so, why is the same not happening to their two-toed cousins? Do they have any specialized diet? Because google just say that they both eat leaves.

I'm curious about this too. All I know is they are not closely related. If I remember correctly, two-toed sloths are in the same family as ground sloths, while three-toed are in a separate family. Their arboreal niche is a result of convergent evolution (like dolphins and marine reptiles getting similar looking fins, but not sharing a common ancestor with fins).

 

[SalamAnders]

That's still part of the animal's natural life cycle, though. A sloth expected to live thirty-forty years dying in a few months on average makes them different to animals that don't breed in captivity and die due to short life spans, like the titan beetle. By the way I edited my previous response for clarification.

Comparing insects' lifecycles to mammals' is tricky, so of course there are differences in these two cases.

But I still can't see how the sloth is the superior unrealistic choice here. And I don't know why it has to be a contest. They are unrealistic on a somewhat comparable level if you ask me.
If one is like 10% more unrealistic than the other is irrelevant.

That doesn't change the fact that unrealistic choices have been in the game from the start.

 

[Doran]

I am curious about why the Sloths do not do well in captivity, beside the thing that they do not breed, why do they die? More so, why is the same not happening to their two-toed cousins? Do they have any specialized diet? Because google just say that they both eat leaves.

Three-toed sloth is strictly folivore. We dont exactly know what it can eat or not outside cercopia trees and few other plants. This is important in captive enivoronment, because most animals eat substitute food. To find out zoos would need to test it via trial and error method killing lots of sloth in process. 100 years ago no one had problems with it when for example most new world primates were dying due to diet problems (average lifespan was bunch of weeks). Nowadays something like that would be criticized.

Two-toed sloth on the other hand is omnivore. It can eat plant material aswell as fruits and even meat. In captivity typical food plate for this species consist of carrots, flowers, bananas, eggs, beans and salad. Its not exactly what they should eat. Two-toed sloths in zoos live shorter than their wild counterparts and develop health problems.

 

[FoxyDee]

Three-toed sloth is strictly folivore. We dont exactly know what it can eat or not outside cercopia trees and few other plants. This is important in captive enivoronment, because most animals eat substitute food. To find out zoos would need to test it via trial and error method killing lots of sloth in process. 100 years ago no one had problems with it when for example most new world primates were dying due to diet problems (average lifespan was bunch of weeks). Nowadays something like that would be criticized.

Two-toed sloth on the other hand is omnivore. It can eat plant material aswell as fruits and even meat. In captivity typical food plate for this species consist of carrots, flowers, bananas, eggs, beans and salad. Its not exactly what they should eat. Two-toed sloths in zoos live shorter than their wild counterparts and develop health problems.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation !

 

[macronecu]

are there any animals from this list that you guys want? or can you think of others? i actually wanted this topic to be place to discuss which impossible animals we want as community after seeing its possible now.

 

[Fossa]

I just want the three I mentioned earlier, Starwars Antelope, Killer Seal and Deathstare Bill. There are just not a lot of animals that have such high charisma, uniqueness and talent, I'd rather see these over a lot of realistic species.

 

[macronecu]

I just want the three I mentioned earlier, Starwars Antelope, Killer Seal and Deathstare Bill. There are just not a lot of animals that have such high charisma, uniqueness and talent, I'd rather see these over a lot of realistic species.

deathstare bill is spectacled bear? asking because there were two "impossible" animals in your original response and i might turn this thread into a meta wish list.