Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I'd rather wait the extra three months and in the meantime spend my Arx on paint jobs and ship kits instead. While people are ultimately free to spend theirs how they want, I would also like to encourage as many others as possible to do the same. I believe the playerbase might have a window of opportunity in which to influence what kind of things are more likely to be sold for Arx.

I was under the impression that we unlock the Python2 as a pack, which means a ship kit and a skin.

How much do you normally pay for a ship kit? about 13,000 ARX
How much for a skin? (between 2000-4000 depending on the skin).

Seems to my I'm buying a ship kit + skin and happen to get access to that ship at the same time.

 

[CMDR Daiyus]

I was under the impression that we unlock the Python2 as a pack, which means a ship kit and a skin.

How much do you normally pay for a ship kit? about 13,000 ARX
How much for a skin? (between 2000-4000 depending on the skin).

Seems to my I'm buying a ship kit + skin and happen to get access to that ship at the same time.

There's two purchase options:

1. You buy early access to the Python Mk.II; it unlocks in shipyards to be bought for credits on 7th May.
2. You buy a prebuild of the Python Mk.II which comes with a ship kit, paint, and preinstalled modules.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

This is information they publish in their investor briefings: broadly, the current pace of development is roughly break-even (marginally on the profitable side) with the current pace of new game purchases and cosmetic sales. That's better than anything they do that isn't a management sim, but substantially worse than their own-IP management sims.

I suppose it depends on whether Frontier want or find it economic to persist with a live service game.

Given that PP2 is, must have been, in development and the mystery new feature must also be in devlopment, how do you think Frontier are balancing the books? Is P2 and cash for battle boats going to provide all the funding needed?

 

[Brrokk]

I'd rather wait the extra three months and in the meantime spend my Arx on paint jobs and ship kits instead. While people are ultimately free to spend theirs how they want, I would also like to encourage as many others as possible to do the same. I believe the playerbase might have a window of opportunity in which to influence what kind of things are more likely to be sold for Arx.

I'm waiting for the forum revelations of what the Python II is like and what it's capabilities are, to decide how keen I am to get one.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

Seems to my I'm buying a ship kit + skin and happen to get access to that ship at the same time.

I'll just take the ship please.

 

[Darrack]

I'll just take the ship please.

Me too, is it May yet? i want my new sexy python!

O7

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I suppose it depends on whether Frontier want or find it economic to persist with a live service game.

Given that PP2 is, must have been, in development and the mystery new feature must also be in devlopment, how do you think Frontier are balancing the books? Is P2 and cash for battle boats going to provide all the funding needed?

The usual mix of new game sales, a smaller number of Odyssey sales, and cosmetics ... seems to be balancing the income with the current development expenditure. For now - but inflation of costs and deflation of game unit price isn't going to keep that sustainable on its own forever.

Trying to move ED above "break even" would be an obvious move - still has a large and loud fanbase, but they need something other than "big Season-style expansion" as a plan. So this is it, I guess: Powerplay 2/Titan-killing/mystery feature to keep veterans interested and spending on ARX ; quickstart ships to try to turn more beginners into veterans or at least get more money out of them before they decide it's not for them.

Maybe it'll even work.

 

[Darkfyre99]

True - though until and unless one of its present or future competitors actually succeeds at making a great space MMO, we won't actually know if better than "rather decent" is practically as opposed to theoretically possible.

It is. Thats how I would describe this game early in its development phase. The problem, in my eyes, is that Frontier always went for the easiest way to address to address complaints… which in turn created more problems down the line. The game I played from Alpha through Premium Beta was much better than what we have today. Sure, there’s many more activities than in the past, but the decisions that drive those activities are a pale reflection of their former glory.

And that makes me sad.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

I'm waiting for the forum revelations of what the Python II is like and what it's capabilities are, to decide how keen I am to get one.

The way I see it, if the P2 turns out to be a dud, then a three-month delay doesn't matter. If it turns out to be the best thing since sliced Karsuki Locusts, then it's worth waiting for.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I suppose it depends on whether Frontier want or find it economic to persist with a live service game.

Given that PP2 is, must have been, in development and the mystery new feature must also be in devlopment, how do you think Frontier are balancing the books? Is P2 and cash for battle boats going to provide all the funding needed?

Speaking personally, I was all set to go on an ARX shopping spree if I liked what I saw in yesterday’s stream. The news the day before has nixed that plan in the bud. I liked what I saw, but if I do buy ARX, it won’t be nearly as much as I had originally planned, and it’ll be timed with fresh PowerPlay news

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

Trying to move ED above "break even" would be an obvious move.

Thanks for you answer Ian. I'm a little confused here as sometimes you say ED breaks even and sometimes it makes a profit.

Can I be cheeky (I'm going to be) and ask for the apparent profit or loss of ED over the past few financial years please?

 

[BackToTheMud]

Uninstalled. Goodbye all.

Not an airport, dude.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

Speaking personally, I was all set to go on an ARX shopping spree if I liked what I saw in yesterday’s stream. The news the day before has nixed that plan in the bud. I liked what I saw, but if I do buy ARX, it won’t be nearly as much as I had originally planned, and it’ll be timed with fresh PowerPlay news

I haven't bought ARX and never will on principle. Given I have a LEP this makes it impossible for me to support Frontier financially, I can only spend ARX I 'earn' in game.

 

[Vedmo]

Which is fair enough really.

As is your post fair enough. Everything you say is true, and while I’m not yet composing an open letter, I just don’t get to an as accepting viewpoint from it all as you.

Would you describe the Horizons expansion that way, or does the six-year gap between release and fold-in / the payment in direct cash rather than ARX mean that it doesn't count?

Conversely, would it be better if it was just released as a "ship pack" and you had to pay £X to unlock it in perpetuity with no intent to ever make it generally available?

My take is initial release and your classic expansion models are not pay to win, just buying the product and being left behind by not wanting an expansion is your problem not the game’s. I’ve no issue with cosmetic sales. Pre-selling a year of seasons that gets delayed into oblivion wouldn’t have been my first choice but was nothing I got hung up on, and without hindsight I would say an acceptable model.
So far as the ARX variable, if anything I’d say it offers a component of legitimacy to paywalling things as they can be earned through play as well (increasingly so in the future it looks like too, with the glimpses we’ve been given).
I would be opposed to only being able to acquire future content or ships through purchasable packs or small DLC packages. As I type this I wonder where that line of acceptance comes from for me, large dlc or expansions being acceptable and small transactions not so, and I don’t have an answer for that, but baiting Update 19 with “early access” in the live game when the only thing making it early is their desire to charge for it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I‘m not saying this would be the right answer for Fdev, but assuming your classic expansion model is a thing of the past for this game I would personally be most content departing with my money if they just added a subscription.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

New ships must be better than the old ones in some way for players to want to buy them. This is the only way.

I agree. However, that isn't how the game has been designed. Look at the Asp Scout. I honestly don't know who Fdev is making the game for when they make certain decisions like that.

 

[Weps]

What about more engine and weapon colours?

What about more Fleet Carrier layouts?

What about custom skins for Odyssey tools?

Blatant copy from a Reddit post earlier in the day (suggestions not mine):

• Ship cockpit skins
• Ability to rename systems discovered by the player (pay-per-system, probably FDEV reviewed)
• Engine and weapon sounds
• Different choice of landing music
• Custom (voice acted) station landing greetings / chatter
• Ship front lights with custom patterns / colors
• Wall graffitis / emojis (Odyssey only)
• The carrier layouts showcased for PP2.0 strongold carriers
• NPC clothing from concourse (the red suit / the Star Trek uniform / the brown overalls etc.)
• Carrier's captain quarters /w decorations
• Player flag placeable on planet surface (my personal comment: if cloth physics are too complicated, how about a holographic device that looks like a flag)
• Type-10 ship kit that removes the spoiler

I've filtered the suggestions that I believe are cosmetic only, but there were plenty more suggestions, from a simple ship loadouts feature to complex mission pack expansions (personally believe these qualify as gameplay additions).

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Thanks for you answer Ian. I'm a little confused here as sometimes you say ED breaks even and sometimes it makes a profit.

It makes a marginal profit - but not a very big one when compared with either the profits made by Planet Zoo/JWE2 or the losses made by Foundry or Realms of Ruin, so "roughly breaks even" is also I think accurate.

Can I be cheeky (I'm going to be) and ask for the apparent profit or loss of ED over the past few financial years please?

Based on the graphs in the most recent investor presentation [1]
- probably about £1M in calendar 2023
- probably about £2M in calendar 2022
- probably somewhere around £8M in calendar 2021 but that's including the big spike in the Odyssey launch month so isn't really representative (given that a substantial proportion of the costs of developing Odyssey fell in 2019 and 2020)

The graphs are fairly low-res and don't have published scales, so this is the best I can infer from what numbers they have published from time to time, and I could very easily be out +/-£1M at least.

[1] Page 14 of https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...rontier-fy24-interim-results-presentation.pdf

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Type-10 ship kit that removes the spoiler

scoffs

The same people who would order caviar and tell the waiter to "hold the fish eggs" no doubt.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

(sorry, quoted by mistake. Nothing to see here, move along...)

There is no issue regarding the free rebuy attached to Arx ships. Not a single Issue
They are crap builds aimed at poor newbs that wont have the credits to rebuy them anyways.

Any vet will not use those builds, and even if someone will Arx the prebuilt Python Mk2 (cause i dont see any vet spending cash for a ship they can get for peanuts credits ingame - like that Ax Chief), they will outfit that ships and they will incur some rebuy costs.
Sure, that rebuy would be smaller than for a shipyard purchased ship, but it doesnt really matter since rebuy costs are laughable for any vet.

I was trying to allay fears by others . . . I do not have any issues with that. No skin off my nose. None. I play solo, anyway, and should I venture into Open -- well, that doesn't change anything. I never fly without a rebuy. Er, dozens, actually.

And, no, I don't care if some character with too much money plonks down 55,000 bucks for a bucketful of vapourware and broken ships (to avoid the charge that I condone one thing and condemn a similar thing). That's that person's problem, not mine.

I fully intend to strip my Python 2 and install stuff I want, which should incur a suitable rebuy.

 

[metatheurgist]

If the moneymaking scheme fails it may indeed be.

Does this money making scheme feel like a winner though? It feels like the financial equivalent of PP v1 tbh. Or Engy v1. Or 3 spinning circles scanner. Or v1 specs for Ody. Or CQC. Or Asp Scout.

Only way it works is if somehow the cloud of whales at SC suddenly decides to transfer to a less buggy, actually working game.