Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Cdr Voorheez]

This for me is the end of a great journey. I have played Elite on and off since 1984 and fully immersed myself into this wonderful game in 2014.
It's genuinely helped me cope with some dark moments in my life.
But this.
This is not good.
It will be the end of this beautiful game.
I hope in all sincerity that I am wrong but something deep inside me knows this move is curtains for the game.
Good luck all. Fly Dangerous and do not forget your limpets.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I hope in all sincerity that I am wrong but something deep inside me knows this move is curtains for the game.

If the moneymaking scheme fails it may indeed be.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

New ships must be better than the old ones in some way for players to want to buy them. This is the only way.

True but this has been going on for a long time. The Krait II is pretty much a straightforward upgrade on the Python 1 for everything except cargo capacity. The Alliance C-ships are generally superior to the equivalent Federal bricks. Going back further, the Cutter beat the T-9 in its own speciality on release, and still essentially does even after the T-9 got a bunch of retrospective boosts.

As a result, in a few years the entire balance of the game will be destroyed.

That would be more of a concern if it was still balanced in any plausible way to start with, for me.

You can already make a ship that can sit indefinitely in a combat area and rack up NPC bounties completely hands-free.
The Anaconda has been famously overpowered in certain respects since before 1.0 released.
An engineered ship can have enough shields that mirror matches can go on for 20 minutes or more.
Single missions can pay out considerably more than the cost of the ship needed to do them.
The most time-effective way to win the Thargoid war - by a massive margin - is dismantling Thargoid scouts with research limpets.
The Fleet Carrier allows cost-effective point-to-point teleportation for risk-free trading.
On the other side of poor balance, the more expensive ships and modules are vastly overpriced for the amount of benefit they actually give, the relative cost of G5 ship engineering over G3 or G4 is ridiculous for the marginal gain, etc.

It fell off that "balance" cliff nine years ago and kept going down, a few slightly better hulls aren't going to significantly perturb its trajectory.

 

[Muzz UK]

We are not talking about any small nuances.
The question is which path ED will take now.
And it seems to me that this is not about attracting new players, but about extracting maximum money from the existing audience.

As in star citizen. Such games do not need gameplay, they need pre-orders, pictures, bloggers and presentations.

I think the thing to remember and consider is this. The community want more from Elite, but does Elite make enough money to warrant the extra resource to deliver? Its a main product of Frontier yes! and its clearly been stated it makes money but I'm sure David Braben in a previous end of year accounts summary basically eluded to the fact it isn't ever going to explode its on course with no need to steer in other directions.

If the community here wants more they might need to pay for more. Anything that makes the game money in my opinion is good it keeps the game alive. We're playing a niche space game its never ever going to appeal to a mass market like an MMO RPG.

Again I don't think we really have enough investment in PvP for buying ships with real money to give that much of an advantage.

I accepted a long time ago the complexity around developing this game means its never going to satisfy a huge crowd, it will be delivered late and Frontier are going to annoy people look at the console and VR decisions... however those choices didn't kill the game.

 

[Rory12]

If the community here wants more they might need to pay for more. Anything that makes the game money in my opinion is good it keeps the game alive. We're playing a niche space game its never ever going to appeal to a mass market like an MMO RPG.

I opened a thread about financial assistance for the ED so that we could have landings on atmospheric planets, story studies and other interesting things.

The topic was closed.
The choice was made in favor of squeezing money through the star citizen method.

Apparently they want a LOT of FAST money.
The game is in second place and with this approach it will quickly go downhill..

 

[CaptainPugwash]

If the moneymaking scheme fails it may indeed be.

Yep, this move by Frontier is all based on economics, and I think even the most creative of us would struggle to find a way to raise money quickly so that they can continue to add new content from now on. Some people on the forums suggested selling personalizations for ship interiors or base building but that still requires a massive investment with cash that Fronier doesn’t have.
So it’s literally a case of “needs must”.

I don’t like it but it’s a far softer version of P2W than SC for example, and I’m pretty sure there won’t be any G5 meta combat builds in the store.

 

[PiLhEaD]

.... you do realize that this game, and all like it, are worlds of fantasy make believe, do you not? You are not actually a Pilots Federation CMDR.....

No it's not, and yes I am. Thank you.

What time are my pills?

 

[Rory12]

Yep, this move by Frontier is all based on economics, and I think even the most creative of us would struggle to find a way to raise money quickly so that they can continue to add new content from now on.

Then it was possible to talk about plans for using this money, and not chat about anything for an hour on stream.

 

[Rat Catcher]

So it’s literally a case of “needs must”.

Succinct, I like it!

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I opened a thread about financial assistance for the ED so that we could have landings on atmospheric planets, story studies and other interesting things.

The topic was closed.
The choice was made in favor of squeezing money through the star citizen method.

Apparently they want a LOT of FAST money.
The game is in second place and with this approach it will quickly go downhill..

They could try another crowd funding, but I doubt it would be as successful as the first one, and people would expect at least another major expansion if not elite 2.0.

 

[Rat Catcher]

and not chat about anything for an hour on stream.

Oh, weren't they discussing PP 2.0?
I wasn't taking any notice, the chat was way more fun to read, after all.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

16k ARX for EA to a new ship, the value of which disappears after 3 months.

13k for a new ship kit.

I bet if FD released ship kits for those ships still missing them they'd make way more money from those than EA of the Python Mk2.

Maybe that will put something in perspective for those who are saying "FD need money, so its ok for them to EA the Python Mk2"

Just to note which ships have no ship kits (while some ships have as many as 3! Anaconda has 6????)

Alliance Crusader
Asp Scout
Cobra Mk4
Diamondback Scout
Federal Dropship
Federal Assault Ship
Hauler
Imperial Eagle
Type 7
Viper Mk4

Admittedly, many of those are among the least popular ships, but all ships (yes, even the Asp Scout) have their fans, and some people just like collecting and customizing all their ships (me for example). Not to mention quite popular ships like the FAS which i'm sure would sell a ton of ship kits.

I don't understand why FD have sat on this potential goldmine for so long and instead are resorting to more dubious monetization schemes.

What about more engine and weapon colours?

What about more Fleet Carrier layouts?

What about custom skins for Odyssey tools?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They could try another crowd funding, but I doubt it would be as successful as the first one, and people would expect at least another major expansion if not elite 2.0.

I bet if they said they would do ship interiors as a crowdfunded DLC they'd get the money. Or at least it should if the people who have been shouting for them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Those who contribute get it for free. Those who don't have to pay on release (or... ugh, EA).

 

[Rat Catcher]

I bet if they said they would do ship interiors as a crowdfunded DLC they'd get the money.

Why is the cynical part of my brain insisting that wouldn't be the case?
Maybe the continuing knee-jerk reactions to anything FD suggests that may cost money?

ETA: Perhaps the reaction to buying ships from the store has coloured my thinking?

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

Engineering doesn't change the value of a module, nor it's rebuy.

I am aware of that. My theory was that FDEV could make modules provided with bought ships cost rebuy when engineered by the player. My reasoning was that this would serve to avoid the problem of rebuy-free ships being used to detrimental effect. Alternatively, they could simply say that in case of ship loss, the player receives the original modules, sans any after-market engineering... THAT was what I wanted to say.

Sorry. VERY ROUGH day at work. Teaching isn't always fun. Sometimes it's downright depressing. Especially as a foreigner at an American militlary school.

 

[Northpin]

to avoid the problem of rebuy-free ships being used to detrimental effect

There is no issue regarding the free rebuy attached to Arx ships. Not a single Issue
They are crap builds aimed at poor newbs that wont have the credits to rebuy them anyways.

Any vet will not use those builds, and even if someone will Arx the prebuilt Python Mk2 (cause i dont see any vet spending cash for a ship they can get for peanuts credits ingame - like that Ax Chief), they will outfit that ships and they will incur some rebuy costs.
Sure, that rebuy would be smaller than for a shipyard purchased ship, but it doesnt really matter since rebuy costs are laughable for any vet.

 

[amigacooke {macOS}]

No it's not, and yes I am. Thank you.

What time are my pills?

He’s slipped the restraints again!

Nurse! Get the cattle prod!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I bet if they said they would do ship interiors as a crowdfunded DLC they'd get the money. Or at least it should if the people who have been shouting for them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

I can't see it working. Realistic price for something like that is going to be around £10 million (seems to be roughly what a year of full development costs Frontier nowadays). They'd need 200,000 people willing to pay an average £50 "premium DLC" price comparable to the Odyssey pre-order to guarantee "no losses", or at least enough such pre-pre-pre-orders to make getting the rest on pre-orders and post-release seem realistic.

Even if it's really easy and only costs half that I can't see it happening.

Same applies to any other "what if the dedicated players had a whip-round and bake sale to stop Frontier needing to raise money by less savoury means" idea: there obviously aren't anywhere near enough dedicated players for it to make a difference on the scales being considered.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

There is no issue regarding the free rebuy attached to Arx ships. Not a single Issue
They are crap builds aimed at poor newbs that wont have the credits to rebuy them anyways.

True for now, most likely. But we have no idea what FDev will do in the future for ARX PvP focused G5 maxed Large combat ships, with special permits, unlocks, engineering, etc. Imagine a zero rebuy cost on a fully A rated, fully engineered Cutter to be used in the new potential open only PP2.0. That is more than just pocket change, even for elite with credits fairly easy to get with most game loops.

We also have no idea if any of the real monies spent on ARX or ARX ships will help with ED running longer or getting more content at Fdev or instead will be used to fund some other Fdev IP...

That is why the pushback for Pay 2 Win, Pay 2 Boost, or Pay 2 get early access etc is so strong. These initial ARX ships are just the start, it will grow, in ways unknown over time

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No it's not, and yes I am. Thank you.

What time are my pills?

Pills, pshff, Kumo Burger gives you the best ground to stand with two feet on.