People are asking for rollbacks on the RNGineers exploiters, shouldn't be the same to credit exploiters too?

[fuub]

People are asking for rollbacks on the RNGineers exploiters, shouldn't be the same to credit exploiters too?

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

 

[Riverside]

Does this need it's own thread?

FD draw the line in such a way that cheating is beyond the line, exploiting is not. Whether you or I feel differently is immaterial.

 

[Vorxian]

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

Nope!

After grinding to make ones fortune, and relaxing in thou SOLO villa. It affects no one else in the world, or Galaxy to that matter.

The engineering exploits have basically ruined OPEN for a huge swathe of players. So completely different.

Besides, credits in ED only take you so far, the rest is hindered by grind walls, and on top of that.. the most you'll ever spend on a ship is about 1b.. even if you made 100b credits.. you're still at no more of an advantage... which cannot be said about having engineer god rolls

 

[MissMeYet]

The best roll I can get on thrusters is 136%. and I've rolled at least 200 at pailin honestly. I am sad that I have nothing higher than 136%. sad!

 

[Martian Successor]

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

Credits don't buy you a direct advantage in combat. Engineering does.

/thread.

 

[fuub]

Nope!

After grinding to make ones fortune, and relaxing in thou SOLO villa. It affects no one else in the world, or Galaxy to that matter.

The engineering exploits have basically ruined OPEN for a huge swathe of players. So completely different.

Besides, credits in ED only take you so far, the rest is hindered by grind walls, and on top of that.. the most you'll ever spend on a ship is about 1b.. even if you made 100b credits.. you're still at no more of an advantage... which cannot be said about having engineer god rolls



https://pics.onsizzle.com/money-isnt-everything-out-its-right-up-there-with-oxygen-22853485.png

Still 1b without exploiting the game takes MUCH MORE TIME than playing the game fairly.

 

[goemon]

FDEV has done so for CR-gaining methods labelled as exploit before. most notable selling modules for a profit from founders world years back. CR where taken back and exploit was fixed.

many CR-gaining methods, that some players think of as "exploits" aren't labelled as that by frontier. exampel: mode-switching to stack sothis/robigo missions month backed. official statement was "not in the spirit of the game", but not "exploit" (while you and me might see it as an exploit) - differently to gaining G5 mods with G1 rolls recently, which was explicitly labelled exploit (and if you ask me, nobody using it couldn't be in doubt that it was an exploit).

so, as long as you can't come up with an official FDEV source labelling concrete methods of gaining CR as an exploit, this discussion is pretty much academic.

 

[verminstar]

If frontier label them as exploits, then yes absolutely. If its just players claiming its an exploit, then they get ignored.

Some the cash cows may well be there by design and intended mechanics, so until FD say otherwise, its just salty bitter players ergo they are ignored ^

 

[xondk]

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

There's a big difference, though I understand and partially agree.

The credit "exploiters" as you call them, are exploiting a flaw in the mission generation system providing a large amount of high paying easy missions for them.

The RNGineers exploiters, are bypassing the cost mechanism of the engineers, and have found a way to make the mechanism fail so to their advantage.

Only one of these actually bypasses the code in the game. The credit one simply takes advantage of the code giving a flawed result.

In short, if you find a thing that gives you an advantage, that does not bypass the 'general' way of how things are supposed to work, then you are taking advantage more then you are exploiting. So it isn't as much credit exploiting, but taking advantage of a credit opportunity and that said, the only ones they really affect are themselves, I've known some that have done it, and now they are bored with the game, because they have everything money can buy and rarely play. So yeah.

 

[H'avok]

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

Sothis ceos wasn't an exploit. So....

 

[Conch]

just block everyone from the 13th.. and while your at it, SDC too..

 

[BL1P]

Yes they should.

 

[AndiBcool]

What Sothis Ceos exploit ? You took missions for long range deliverys. The payouts wherent that much higher then bulk trading in a cutter at a good route in the same time.
The only thing it was not that boring as bulk trading.
You didnt need to switch modes, you could also just jump from sothis to ceos ( doin also data deliveries for Fed rank ) and back to renew the mission board and you basicly got at booth station long range missions.
Also you had to be allied with the fractions and have high trading rank in order to take often the most profitable mission.
So a new player could not take the higher payout missions most of the time.

But i find it funny, you didnt do it back then and have no knowlege how it worked but demand rollbacks.

 

[goemon]

What Sothis Ceos exploit ? .

your way of doing it missed many more exploitative ways around that ... like: taking on missions worth several hundred of millions, selling commodities on the black market (gained rep back then) so you can get more missions, going back to the bubble, buy back those commodities and doing the missions.

that said - the madness of having 10+ cops and pirates behind you, trying to scan you or kill you is very much missed. i did several runs back then (without the exploits described above and without modeswitching), in a dbe, as a slow ship was most challenging for that job. great fun!

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Nope!

FD regard the Engineers Exploit and Combat Logging as exploits and cheating.
FD don't regard the various rising and falling get-rich quick schemes of the galaxy (Sothis/Ceos, Robigo, Quince, Massacre Missions, Passenger Missions etc) as exploits or cheating.

FD have recognised an imbalance in the mission rewards for these get-rich-quick schemes, and rebalanced or limited them accordingly, but they don't regard it as cheating to use them, so they won't (and shouldn't) roll back credits people earned by using them. They didn't even roll back the credits of people who took part in the CG that paid out hundreds of millions of credits a while back despite everyone moaning about it.
FD have also recognised where they haven't quite got the design of those missions right - black market giving faction rep; mission rewards' original distance scaling; kills counting for every mission in a stack (still not fixed - the limit to stacking being a temporary fix IMO), massacre missions counting skimmers as kills etc... - and adjusted them accordingly.

FD know the difference between people playing a game that is under constant adjustment and development in good faith, and people abusing a glitch in the UI or killing the game client to avoid consequence.

So the get-rich-quick methods do not equate in any way to exploiting or cheating. Why should they be treated the same?

 

[Zambrick]

I mean, I didn't did sothis/ceo etc exploits and because of that have many less credits than ppl who exploited these things, and bought the best ship/weapon etc.


Exactly the same as the exploit of RNGineers.

um no, because the so called credit exploiters did not cost the entire game community many thousands of billions of credits in the last 4 months of wholesale slaughter.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Credit farming will stay unpunished and won't be fixed either. It's the only way "normal" players can keep a semblance of a balance with the hordes of cheatships unleashed on them and that.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Fine by me to roll back, I didn't do either so it will have zero impact on me either way.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Nope!

FD regard the Engineers Exploit and Combat Logging as exploits and cheating.
FD don't regard the various rising and falling get-rich quick schemes of the galaxy (Sothis/Ceos, Robigo, Quince, Massacre Missions, Passenger Missions etc) as exploits or cheating.

FD have recognised an imbalance in the mission rewards for these get-rich-quick schemes, and rebalanced or limited them accordingly, but they don't regard it as cheating to use them, so they won't (and shouldn't) roll back credits people earned by using them. They didn't even roll back the credits of people who took part in the CG that paid out hundreds of millions of credits a while back despite everyone moaning about it.
FD have also recognised where they haven't quite got the design of those missions right - black market giving faction rep; mission rewards' original distance scaling; kills counting for every mission in a stack (still not fixed - the limit to stacking being a temporary fix IMO), massacre missions counting skimmers as kills etc... - and adjusted them accordingly.

FD know the difference between people playing a game that is under constant adjustment and development in good faith, and people abusing a glitch in the UI or killing the game client to avoid consequence.

So the get-rich-quick methods do not equate in any way to exploiting or cheating. Why should they be treated the same?

A further point to add to what I've already said is that the two things don't even have equal in-game effects.

Credit-farming gets people rich quickly - they can buy whatever ships they want, but they can't buy skill. By and large, the only reason to amass credits in this game (after you've bought and upgraded the ships you want) is to get as many rebuys as possible. It doesn't really affect anyone else - after all, a skilled Eagle can kill a harmless Anaconda.

Cheating methods affect other people - either denying them legitimate kills in combat situations where they have the upper hand, or gaining an unfair combat advantage over others, or (in the case of data-mining) revealing content that FD aren't ready to release into the game, thus spoiling the story for everyone (all those who care, that is).

Bottom line from FD's point of view seems to be if you want to sink your time into their game mechanics to get the result you want, fair dos; if you abuse glitches in their game mechanics to do it, then it's a problem.

Why? Probably because it means you can't be bothered to engage with the way that they have designed the game - you can't be bothered to play by the rules, and don't care if it adversely affects others.

 

[WR3ND]

Is this one of those false equivalency straw man arguments? "See, you cheated, so it's OK that I did too."

Well, guess what, I've never used any exploits in this game. Roll credits back? I'd be fine with it. The mod exploit is a bigger deal though in my opinion, since it gives players a clear unfair advantage over others and the mods aren't something you can just go out and buy in the game.

I'm getting to the point now where I could reasonably afford buying and A rating any ship in the game, if I felt like doing that sort of thing. It would take me many years worth of playing to get maxed out Engineer mods doing nothing else in the game and it isn't something I would naturally progress toward just by playing the game normally.

The vast majority of my credits in the game have come from me turning in exploration data over the past two years, and without neutron star field farming (technically an exploit in my mind, but a condoned/sanctioned one – assuming their generation isn't intentional) nor cherry picking ELWs (fair play, but bad form), by the way.

Sorry if my standards are too high.