Thanks TorTorden. I’m leaning toward this approach at the moment. For a $100 im willing to take the risk that the added ram won’t give me a bump, as I’ve got other VR games that explicitly recommend 16 anyway. Probably going to be a few weeks till I make the jump so I’ve got some time to think on it. Budget for upgrades is a bit tight post Vive Pro purchase!
Performance impact of Ram & CPU upgrades
- Thread starter Filmgeek47
- Start date
Thanks TorTorden. I’m leaning toward this approach at the moment. For a $100 im willing to take the risk that the added ram won’t give me a bump, as I’ve got other VR games that explicitly recommend 16 anyway. Probably going to be a few weeks till I make the jump so I’ve got some time to think on it. Budget for upgrades is a bit tight post Vive Pro purchase!
It really depends on the size of the RAM allocated by ED. I wouldn't bother as long as the RAM usage of ED itself is substantially smaller than the physical RAM installed. Most probably Win10 just tried to make some room for potential new RAM allocations. Compressed RAM is usually idle data loaded from all software running including the OS itself. You could get an idea by checking RAM usage before and after starting ED. And then your CPU is really fast handling the RAM management, so... i'd rather save the money for a complete new 16GB kit that is substantially faster as soon as the budget matches street prices.
Check this one out on RAM compression on/off switching and performance...
Check this one out on RAM compression on/off switching and performance...
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Interesting. Reread what you said before. It honestly hadn't occurred to me that coffeelake specifically would scale well, but I am seeing some articles that suggest that's the case.
The thing that sucks about ram compression is it just makes it that much harder to tell if I really have a bottleneck. The system is definitely using significant compression when I load up ED with thrust master, iTunes and voice attack behind it. Windows alone seems to use an oddly high amount of RAM (something like 30% of my 8GB).
Additional googling has also revealed that frontier's official minimum spec for ED VR says 16GB, so I may end up saving for a 3200 16GB kit.
https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=88fecfe120#Minimum Specs VR
Now, I do have another question. Have you guys read anywhere about comparisons of ED performance with a 8700k vs 8600k? I know of at least one vr game that the 8600k lacks sufficient thread count for, but I'm wondering if I'd gain a few frames in ED as well with the upgrade. Mainly just window-shopping right now, but I'm trying to plan out my upgrade path for the future...
The rabbit hole never ends.
Thanks again.
The thing that sucks about ram compression is it just makes it that much harder to tell if I really have a bottleneck. The system is definitely using significant compression when I load up ED with thrust master, iTunes and voice attack behind it. Windows alone seems to use an oddly high amount of RAM (something like 30% of my 8GB).
Additional googling has also revealed that frontier's official minimum spec for ED VR says 16GB, so I may end up saving for a 3200 16GB kit.
https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=88fecfe120#Minimum Specs VR
Now, I do have another question. Have you guys read anywhere about comparisons of ED performance with a 8700k vs 8600k? I know of at least one vr game that the 8600k lacks sufficient thread count for, but I'm wondering if I'd gain a few frames in ED as well with the upgrade. Mainly just window-shopping right now, but I'm trying to plan out my upgrade path for the future...
The rabbit hole never ends.
Thanks again.
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Heres linus tech tips on ram and ram speeds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnuNs_Nu46Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Yt4vSZKVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnuNs_Nu46Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Yt4vSZKVk
Like so many shills on YouTube he can go futter them.
Actually the 16GB requirement is "". funny i my not enter B and S without a gap 
I think they saw sth around 8GB back then and then went for the recommendation with the next typical step that is 16GB. But then this does not take into account uneven combinations like (8+4) 12GB or the Win10 RAM compression. Maybe things change when you run the Vive Pro or Pimax 8k in future. But lacking those gadgets i can't tell.
The Linus tech tips videos are not wrong in general, it's just over simplification for the joe average.
Since no online media is interested in ED benchmarking and also no useful information can be expected by Frontier Development I really think it's time the the ED-VR community goes into benchmarking on its own. AFAIK we only know that it scales well with many cores. But instead of comparing different scores of individual systems looking for worst/best FPS it would need to answer some of the following
- Does Hyperthreading and/or SMT make a difference, e.g. will 8700k at same freq. perform better than 8600k, is HT even showing negative impacts?
- What is the impact of RAM latency, will FPS be more stable?
- What is the impact of RAM bandwidth, will higher speed RAM make a substantial difference?
- What is the impact of RAM size, what is the maximum amount of RAM that shows substantial improvements?
- What is the minimum GPU for a given Headset to achieve 45/90fps (40/80 in Pimax 8k) in VR low, VR high?
- What is the GPU VRAM size that has a positive effect on fps in VR low, VR high, at what output resolution?
the catch was that for standard HD mode there were no big HW requirements and for 4k and especially VR - where systems start to struggle - nobody did the research yet...
I think they saw sth around 8GB back then and then went for the recommendation with the next typical step that is 16GB. But then this does not take into account uneven combinations like (8+4) 12GB or the Win10 RAM compression. Maybe things change when you run the Vive Pro or Pimax 8k in future. But lacking those gadgets i can't tell.
The Linus tech tips videos are not wrong in general, it's just over simplification for the joe average.
Since no online media is interested in ED benchmarking and also no useful information can be expected by Frontier Development I really think it's time the the ED-VR community goes into benchmarking on its own. AFAIK we only know that it scales well with many cores. But instead of comparing different scores of individual systems looking for worst/best FPS it would need to answer some of the following
- Does Hyperthreading and/or SMT make a difference, e.g. will 8700k at same freq. perform better than 8600k, is HT even showing negative impacts?
- What is the impact of RAM latency, will FPS be more stable?
- What is the impact of RAM bandwidth, will higher speed RAM make a substantial difference?
- What is the impact of RAM size, what is the maximum amount of RAM that shows substantial improvements?
- What is the minimum GPU for a given Headset to achieve 45/90fps (40/80 in Pimax 8k) in VR low, VR high?
- What is the GPU VRAM size that has a positive effect on fps in VR low, VR high, at what output resolution?
the catch was that for standard HD mode there were no big HW requirements and for 4k and especially VR - where systems start to struggle - nobody did the research yet...
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Just some additional info in case it helps anyone. Did a little vaguely scientific testing tonight. A few caveats: this was only one aspect of the game, hardware load while sitting idle at a station looking around. At the settings I've dialed up to, I see some mild stuttering occasionally with my settings. To my surprise, even with all my background apps open, I didn't come close to maxing out my ram (I believe it hit 65% or so, and I verified that the page file was untouched, so ram CAPACITY wasn't bottlenecking me. GPU was pinging around 100%. CPU was shockingly low at 34%.
Now, my understanding is that RAM speed is likely to only improve the CPU's output, so seeing as the CPU isn't coming close to being a bottleneck, neither higher ram speed or capacity are going to make a dent in this specific scenario.
At some point I'll have to run some tests in res sights and while flying in the black, but I'm frankly wondering if I should just hang fire and put the cash towards new gpus down the line, or at least wait till ram prices return to a sane baseline.
Now, my understanding is that RAM speed is likely to only improve the CPU's output, so seeing as the CPU isn't coming close to being a bottleneck, neither higher ram speed or capacity are going to make a dent in this specific scenario.
At some point I'll have to run some tests in res sights and while flying in the black, but I'm frankly wondering if I should just hang fire and put the cash towards new gpus down the line, or at least wait till ram prices return to a sane baseline.
Sorry to bring forward a thread from two months ago, but this thread was just getting even more interesting
On the above you hit 65% of how much RAM?
Thanks
Scott
No worries! 65% of 8GB. I haven't done any more testing since I last posted, just flying I do still suspect that there are specific scenarios where ram usage might pad the frame count by a little, but I still think I'm gonna hang fire for a while, as my performance has been good enough for me with the bounty hunting I've been doing in "high" res sites.
I do still suspect that there are specific scenarios where ram usage might pad the frame count by a little, but I still think I'm gonna hang fire for a while, as my performance has been good enough for me with the bounty hunting I've been doing in "high" res sites.Perfect, thanks! I have been reading ALL the hardware threads, including starting one of my own. The replies have been stellar and quite well meaning, but as we have seen on this thread - often conflicted. I think we all know that hardware is not subjective (if its clear what is being measured), but our perception of the experience it delivers for us in VR can be quite subjective. And that seems to often be part of the differences in views of the value of one piece of hardware over another.
I am making the motherboard/cpu/ram choice now and obviously wanting to spend money where it adds the most value.
Oh, do you know why someone said above (could have been you) that they cant play ED without a browser window open?
Thanks
Scott
I am making the motherboard/cpu/ram choice now and obviously wanting to spend money where it adds the most value.
Oh, do you know why someone said above (could have been you) that they cant play ED without a browser window open?
Thanks
Scott
No idea. I've run with a browser window open plenty of times...
Just to give you my two cents. I ended up selling my 8600k and moving to the 8700k. It was actually for Star Trek Bridge crew more than Elite, because that game has explicit graphical details that are only enabled with i7 processors. There was a bit of a framerate/stability bump. Didn't take measurements unfortunately.
I don't know your budget, but I would definitely recommend going with the i7 if you're serious about ED and VR. More threads are going to become more and more essential with VR gaining (some) traction, and if you go with the 8700k you'll be set for quite a long time. GPU is also essential, but the reality is that no matter what you buy, if you're searching for high end VR performance you'll be upgrading it in a couple of years either way, not to mention that the GPU market is still heavily inflated right now.
If i were jumping in right now, I'd go 8700k, 8Gb ram (MAYBE 16) and whatever Nvidia GPU you can afford with what's left over. Whether or not you want to spend for higher ram is the biggest unanswered question here. I'd argue that based on my own experience, an 8700k is so powerful for gaming that whatever bonus you'd get from higher speced ram is pretty much irrelevant for a good long while (and again, RAM pricing is sky high right now).
Hope that helps.
Just to give you my two cents. I ended up selling my 8600k and moving to the 8700k. It was actually for Star Trek Bridge crew more than Elite, because that game has explicit graphical details that are only enabled with i7 processors. There was a bit of a framerate/stability bump. Didn't take measurements unfortunately.
I don't know your budget, but I would definitely recommend going with the i7 if you're serious about ED and VR. More threads are going to become more and more essential with VR gaining (some) traction, and if you go with the 8700k you'll be set for quite a long time. GPU is also essential, but the reality is that no matter what you buy, if you're searching for high end VR performance you'll be upgrading it in a couple of years either way, not to mention that the GPU market is still heavily inflated right now.
If i were jumping in right now, I'd go 8700k, 8Gb ram (MAYBE 16) and whatever Nvidia GPU you can afford with what's left over. Whether or not you want to spend for higher ram is the biggest unanswered question here. I'd argue that based on my own experience, an 8700k is so powerful for gaming that whatever bonus you'd get from higher speced ram is pretty much irrelevant for a good long while (and again, RAM pricing is sky high right now).
Hope that helps.
It does. Too rich for my blood though . I have been through the hardware upgrade discussion many times over the last 30 years. The hardware names change, but the concepts of the discussion are always the same - when to upgrade, what is on the horizon to wait for, current prices, etc. I am a fairly low rent gamer recently. My son and are playing FarCry4 COOP on two old worklaptops. The one I am using had the graphics turned all the way down to something crazy, like 960 or 1140 and I am playing at 15FPS. Kindof sucks at times, but it doesn't change the fact that we are having a blast! I have settled on a ryzen 1600 which is already more than i wanted but it will be a big upgrade from the freebie MB/CPU someone from work gave me. I currently have a GTX970, so it all will be a big bump for me. I have VERY limited time to play ED anyways, and I solo game rarely as I otherwise will game with my son. But FarCry4 will sure play better . Sure I will have to upgrade in the future, maybe sooner than later, but then again I always will have to .
. I have been through the hardware upgrade discussion many times over the last 30 years. The hardware names change, but the concepts of the discussion are always the same - when to upgrade, what is on the horizon to wait for, current prices, etc. I am a fairly low rent gamer recently. My son and are playing FarCry4 COOP on two old worklaptops. The one I am using had the graphics turned all the way down to something crazy, like 960 or 1140 and I am playing at 15FPS. Kindof sucks at times, but it doesn't change the fact that we are having a blast! I have settled on a ryzen 1600 which is already more than i wanted but it will be a big upgrade from the freebie MB/CPU someone from work gave me. I currently have a GTX970, so it all will be a big bump for me. I have VERY limited time to play ED anyways, and I solo game rarely as I otherwise will game with my son. But FarCry4 will sure play better . Sure I will have to upgrade in the future, maybe sooner than later, but then again I always will have to .Gotcha. That's awesome that you guys play together. You're in for a big upgrade indeed You've picked a good time to buy a processor. What I've read about Ryzen has all been glowing. Fantastic bang for the buck. Enjoy!
You've picked a good time to buy a processor. What I've read about Ryzen has all been glowing. Fantastic bang for the buck. Enjoy!Well, not sure if I should have asked elsewhere or tossed a thread to the top - but I am finally buying, so apologies this thread is back!
Sitting in my cart right now I have to make a choice:
The choice is between 2x4 DDR4 at 2166 or going to 2X8 DDR4 3000
OR a Ryzen 5 2600 or a Ryzen 5 2600X.
So....
1) The Ryzen 5 2600 with 2x8 DDR4 3000
OR
2) The Ryzen 5 2600x with 2x4 DDR4 2166.
Sorry no, it cant be the Ryzen 5 2600X with 2X8 DDR4 3000.
I am mostly concerned about performance in Elite - but I do lots of other gaming, but not in a hardcore way. Elite is where i am concerned about performance.
Thanks again!
Scott
Sitting in my cart right now I have to make a choice:
The choice is between 2x4 DDR4 at 2166 or going to 2X8 DDR4 3000
OR a Ryzen 5 2600 or a Ryzen 5 2600X.
So....
1) The Ryzen 5 2600 with 2x8 DDR4 3000
OR
2) The Ryzen 5 2600x with 2x4 DDR4 2166.
Sorry no, it cant be the Ryzen 5 2600X with 2X8 DDR4 3000
.I am mostly concerned about performance in Elite - but I do lots of other gaming, but not in a hardcore way. Elite is where i am concerned about performance.
Thanks again!
Scott
Hey all,
I ordered the: The Ryzen 5 2600 with 2x8 DDR4 3000. (and MB)
The Ryzen 5 2600X did not have one day shipping, the above three items did. My wife is gone for two days and its best that the hardware shows up and makes it into my PC without her awareness. So my son and I will drop it in and test tomorrow. Even though its within my budget - its best to not have questions asked......
So there is an example of making PC hardware choices based on your environment.
Stage 1 of 3, next up a new VR headset and 1080.
Reality TV coming soon! Tech upgrades without SO awareness
Scott
I ordered the: The Ryzen 5 2600 with 2x8 DDR4 3000. (and MB)
The Ryzen 5 2600X did not have one day shipping, the above three items did. My wife is gone for two days and its best that the hardware shows up and makes it into my PC without her awareness
. So my son and I will drop it in and test tomorrow. Even though its within my budget - its best to not have questions asked......So there is an example of making PC hardware choices based on your environment.
Stage 1 of 3, next up a new VR headset and 1080.
Reality TV coming soon! Tech upgrades without SO awareness
Scott
[haha][haha][haha] You made the right choice. Going with the better chip but less and worse RAM wouldn't have been much of an upgrade.
Alright, I need help please. I am again torn, as I know this isn't a hardware forum. But I know anyone that runs VR (on a PC) is a hardware expert, and since I just purchased this fresh off my thread yesterday...... hoping for some help here.
For the first time ever I have been rejected by an install! I am not POSTing and getting 4 long beeps. Here is what I just 'tried' to put together:
RAMM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15 Desktop Memory Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3000C15) CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600
MB: ASUS TUF B450 Gaming Motherboard AMD Ryzen 2 AM4 DDR4 HDMI DVI-D M.2 Micro ATX
That memory was in the list for ASUS and the board above, whatever that list is called.
When I plug in power (before I turn it on) I see the fancy colors all over the motherboard, so it gets power. When I power on the fan spins, and I immediately get the 'what I think" are 4 long beeps. I have tried moving the RAMM to different slots, and removing it completely. I have removed ALL, including the CDROM, the HD, and the RAMM, same symptoms everytime.
My only hesitation with this install was cranking down the FAN onto the CPU, instead of using a rachet arm as I am used to in the past. Didn't quite know when those screws applied enough pressure - for all I know the CPU is crushed - doubtful. But some help please. The old notes on 4 long beeps has done nothing for me....
No POST, no video using the board video, didn't even try to install my GTX.
Thank you!
Scott
For the first time ever I have been rejected by an install! I am not POSTing and getting 4 long beeps. Here is what I just 'tried' to put together:
RAMM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15 Desktop Memory Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3000C15) CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600
MB: ASUS TUF B450 Gaming Motherboard AMD Ryzen 2 AM4 DDR4 HDMI DVI-D M.2 Micro ATX
That memory was in the list for ASUS and the board above, whatever that list is called.
When I plug in power (before I turn it on) I see the fancy colors all over the motherboard, so it gets power. When I power on the fan spins, and I immediately get the 'what I think" are 4 long beeps. I have tried moving the RAMM to different slots, and removing it completely. I have removed ALL, including the CDROM, the HD, and the RAMM, same symptoms everytime.
My only hesitation with this install was cranking down the FAN onto the CPU, instead of using a rachet arm as I am used to in the past. Didn't quite know when those screws applied enough pressure - for all I know the CPU is crushed
- doubtful. But some help please. The old notes on 4 long beeps has done nothing for me....No POST, no video using the board video, didn't even try to install my GTX.
Thank you!
Scott
https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1029959/
One long and three short beeps in the ASUS beep code table is No VGA (graphics card) detected. (I know you said four long beeps, but you said you think they're four long beeps.)
Try the RAM individually.
Replace the CMOS battery (it's a very cheap battery the size of a pound coin or so, but thinner).
Check your motherboard risers are properly fitted and that the mobo is clear at the back.
Check the CPU power cables are properly attached.
Try it with the GPU installed.
The CPU mounting bracket will, if the CPU is installed correctly, prevent the pins from being crushed - the PCB that the chip is embedded into will take the pressure, not the CPU itself.
One long and three short beeps in the ASUS beep code table is No VGA (graphics card) detected. (I know you said four long beeps, but you said you think they're four long beeps.)
Try the RAM individually.
Replace the CMOS battery (it's a very cheap battery the size of a pound coin or so, but thinner).
Check your motherboard risers are properly fitted and that the mobo is clear at the back.
Check the CPU power cables are properly attached.
Try it with the GPU installed.
The CPU mounting bracket will, if the CPU is installed correctly, prevent the pins from being crushed - the PCB that the chip is embedded into will take the pressure, not the CPU itself.
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