Persistent NPC's - what happened?

[RoadRunner]

You say this as if it is a bad thing? Being able to watch the creative process (or even being a part of it via feedback) is the biggest perk of supporting a project. People paid good money to fund the game and to be involved with it long before it was finished. What you say about patience doesn't make sense.

I have to agree with this. I backed this game for two reasons:-

1. So that it would get made. This, to me was the biggest reason to back the Kickstarter.
2. So that I could get involved in the pre-release process and see it taking shape over time.

Based on the above, FD have provided everything I wanted for my investment. Sure, I backed a lot more cash than the game would have cost me on release, but then I did get to see one of my favourite games of all time become a modern reality and get access to it before everyone else. I just can't get to grips with people that backed it, built up their opinions to the point where they had the whole game mapped out in their heads, and then were disappointed when it turned out to be just a company selling a product like anything else. Sure, there have been some hiccups along the way and I am in no way condoning some of the tactics FD have used to get it made and released, but at the end of the day IT GOT MADE and FD now have a solid game engine they can use as a platform to develop in any way they wish. It really doesn't make sense to me how people get that irate over something they have essentially invented in their own heads through lack of knowledge, gumption, or research and then moan about it on the forums like they're expecting things to change overnight.

 

[Tinman]

Does anyone know of official comment on this matter from FD?

In regards to the DDF Michael have said this:

That provides details on some of the design before implementation, but things change as they get implemented. It also doesn't say when a particular feature is planned.

Michael

Someone then asked this:

Does this mean that stuff from the DDF will be implemented? Will we be getting persistent NPCs? A mineral scanner? A game that doesn`t feel like it was rushed out for Christmas?

And Michael answered with this:

Some of it will be, but there'll also be other things added.

Michael

This is pretty straight forward really. If it makes sense to implement the features based on how the game works now, they will probably get around to it as long as it's financial viable to do so, but they can't do everything at once obviously. Some things might get taken out of the design, some expanded upon and some entirely new features might be added where it makes sense...

Wings that in the DDF was called "Alliances" have now been added and tomorrow it will go live. This is one example of a feature from the DDF that didn't make it for the first release but now have been implemented. Upcoming updates will continue down this path...making the assumption that FD have just dropped everything from the DDF isn't reasonable. You don't expand the dev team after release like FD have done and then take the design documents and throw them out the window.

 

[Dagless]

Problem is, that far too many people ended up assuming that ALL the features in there were intended to be a part of the game at some stage and that ED would eventually end up matching the ridiculously large feature list in the DDA - this is not, and never has been, the case.

Yeah. Some people thought an open world game would contain characters to talk to who might give them missions and stuff to do.

What were they thinking?

 

[Sanderson]

In regards to the DDF Michael have said this:



Someone then asked this:



And Michael answered with this:




This is pretty straight forward really. If it makes sense to implement the features based on how the game works now, they will probably get around to it as long as it's financial viable to do so, but they can't do everything at once obviously. Some things might get taken out of the design, some expanded upon and some entirely new features might be added where it makes sense...

Wings that in the DDF was called "Alliances" have now been added and tomorrow it will go live. This is one example of a feature from the DDF that didn't make it for the first release but now have been implemented. Upcoming updates will continue down this path...making the assumption that FD have just dropped everything from the DDF isn't reasonable. You don't expand the dev team after release like FD have done and then take the design documents and throw them out the window.

Doesn't seem straight forward to me. It doesn't clarify anything, IMO, other than "we may use some of it, we may use something else". No one, outside of FD and I suspect many inside don't either, knows what, if anything in the DDF/DDA will be used, or not. No one has any idea of what "something else" is so, essentially, we know nothing. Maybe that's what FD wants but, it's hardly straight forward, IMO. other than to essentially say "We aren't going to say anything". I guess Michael was straight forward about that at least.

 

[RoadRunner]

Yeah. Some people thought an open world game would contain characters to talk to who might give them missions and stuff to do.

What were they thinking?

I never said that their opinions were wrong, just that they were unfounded as they were based on the faulty assumption that the DDF/DDA was a list of features that would be added to the game

 

[Dominico]

The dda makes for an epic read. I would kickstart that game

 

[Tar Stone]

Well when you start hearing things like 'cutting room floor' in a newsletter, 'some of it will be implemented' from an exec on the forum, and you see a few important things missing - well you tend to get the reactions we've seen.

Online evolving galaxy without persistent NPCs is a hard swallow for an Elite game.

 

[Sanderson]

I never said that their opinions were wrong, just that they were unfounded as they were based on the faulty assumption that the DDF/DDA was a list of features that would be added to the game

The word, at the time was "intent". Easy to see how some would see that as things that would make it into the game. Of course things change, FD just forgot to tell us about the changes until after release and even then we had to figure it out ourselves as FD hasn't said anything other than "maybe, some, none, different" so, essentially nothing.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

The dda makes for an epic read. I would kickstart that game

LOL. I'm sure some unscrupulous employee from another development studio has already archived it all away and will use it as a blueprint for some future epic space sim. FD should copyright it.

 

[Sanderson]

The dda makes for an epic read. I would kickstart that game

Now that, is funny. I may use some, none or something different then what you've stated, in another post.

 

[Tinman]

Doesn't seem straight forward to me. It doesn't clarify anything, IMO, other than "we may use some of it, we may use something else". No one, outside of FD and I suspect many inside don't either, knows what, if anything in the DDF/DDA will be used, or not. No one has any idea of what "something else" is so, essentially, we know nothing. Maybe that's what FD wants but, it's hardly straight forward, IMO. other than to essentially say "We aren't going to say anything". I guess Michael was straight forward about that at least.

Seems like your glass have gone half empty again...did the 1.2 update only work for a week then?

 

[Sanderson]

Seems like your glass have gone half empty again...did the 1.2 update only work for a week then?

Ha ha funny. Just stating what I see. didn't say I don't like ED or 1.2. What I said, essentially, is that the feeble dev response to the DDF/DDA question would make any politician proud and us just as in the dark as before it was asked. I thought I was straight forward with that?

Wings 1.2 is a great (and much needed) update, no denying that, I'll still call rubbish when I see it though

 

[Forzeti]

May I assume you missed the previous two years or so of development and the whole DDF/DDA thing? Players and backers had more than just a "little" patience.

The DDA means nothing now, it was a "wish list" and fun exercise for the devs and those that ponied up $$$ to be part of it. There's been no word (that I've seen) on the DDA and what, if anything, Fd "intends" to use from it. Until then, if ever, the DDA is just neat fiction of what could have (many would say should have) been.

So, to the OP, no one knows the fate of persistent NPCs or anything in the DDA for that matter.

It takes two years to develop a COD game. Surely, I don't have to tell you what shallow kinds of reskinned games those are? They can reuse assets galore, have an incredible amount of financial power and workforce behind them, yet after two years the games they release are but mere bug-ridden iterations of their predecessors at much higher price than this. It takes more than two years to create a modern and fleshed out game. What you're describing as patience is nothing more than an unrealistic expectation.

 

[Dagless]

I never said that their opinions were wrong, just that they were unfounded as they were based on the faulty assumption that the DDF/DDA was a list of features that would be added to the game

But this thread isn't about people thinking the DDF is a complete feature list. It's about one specific feature- Persistent NPCs. I doubt if anyone cares that much if implementation is as described in the DDF. More- are they coming or not?

It's not exactly "pie in the sky". They are actually a pretty standard thing to include.

 

[Tar Stone]

I never said that their opinions were wrong, just that they were unfounded as they were based on the faulty assumption that the DDF/DDA was a list of features that would be added to the game

An opinion based on an assumption isn't unfounded, it's still founded on an assumption.

And that assumption is based upon assuming that something called a 'design discussion forum' is for discussing a design, not a wish list.

So it's a fair assumption. Not a faulty one.

LLAP.

 

[Narius Cen]

Yeah. Some people thought an open world game would contain characters to talk to who might give them missions and stuff to do.

What were they thinking?

They were probably thinking of Chris Roberts' games

Jokes aside, the problem here is that people are not familiar with the creative process, or with running a project. Sometimes you start with 10 ideas to include in a project and end up with 4 of them. Sometimes you start with one very clear idea and end up with 4 of them. Things always change along the way.

If nothing changes during development then you are not in development - that is the finished product.

It is also during development that is decided what parts of a project will be best completed at a later date and a roadmap is laid down for post-release content. This too is a guideline. It will change, albeit less.

Last but not least there is the typical gamer addictive personality and entitlement to control and immediate gratification that is so prevalent, but that is unfortunately intrinsic to our community - it is quite literally the nature of the game

Try and focus on the present - do you enjoy the game right now? This is all that matters.

 

[RoadRunner]

But this thread isn't about people thinking the DDF is a complete feature list. It's about one specific feature- Persistent NPCs. I doubt if anyone cares that much if implementation is as described in the DDF. More- are they coming or not?

It's not exactly "pie in the sky". They are actually a pretty standard thing to include.

And I have no doubt that this particular feature will get added in the fullness of time, once FD are happy with it and have done all the other stuff that's currently higher up their priority list.

The part of my comment you quoted out of context was strictly relating to the DDF/DDA as the OP linked directly to it as his backing for the thread.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

But this thread isn't about people thinking the DDF is a complete feature list. It's about one specific feature- Persistent NPCs. I doubt if anyone cares that much if implementation is as described in the DDF. More- are they coming or not?

It's not exactly "pie in the sky". They are actually a pretty standard thing to include.

I'd be happy with seeing just NPC portraits at this stage. It would go some way to help humanize the feel of the game at this point, instead of being presented with screens of text and numbers all the time. Even frontier had NPC portraits.


How naive was I when I pitched the NPC backstory idea?

 

[Sanderson]

I should add that I'd bet persistent NPCs will eventually make it in game. Eventually.

 

[Tar Stone]

I should add that I'd bet persistent NPCs will eventually make it in game. Eventually.

I hope so. Some things are confirmed as 'on the list' or 'being worked on' but this is one that gets a definite ignore.

But yeah, I really hope so.