Personal Narrative

Here's my prediction of what they're really going to call "personal narrative" (note that at the end I still won't agree with them, but bear with me).

First, I think (I hope) they don't actually mean that this tech broker "is" the personal narrative, or is an example of what they believe a personal narrative to be. Ed has already tried to reroute this thought process, so I believe it's pretty safe to say.

Next, some people have already touched on it, and I think it's mostly right - you have to notice that some of those items in the list are for a very specific purpose (i.e. dealing with Thargoids), and as we've already seen, those upgrades are typically not useful for any other purpose. So what does that translate to?

I think they'll add more upgrades that are only fit for specific "roles" or "missions". That is, super special mining lasers, or super special limpets, or super special scanners, etc and so on.

Let me end your summary here.
So what i imagine from that part of analysis is that FD
does the same mistake twice now.
Powerplay weapons: Look at the "pirate burst laser"...
Now we get that same mistake on a personal level?

The only way to allow for a personal experience IMO
in Elite is to make it more interactive and start making it breathe
and live.
That says: Economy needs to be consistent and player action impact needs to be bigger.
All transports exporting, importing and hauling stuff need to be consistent and used in that
economy, not this "spawn random stuff in" rng cloud we currently have.

I submitted that :



I don't understand how FDev can implement more grindy stuff when i read so many comment against this tedious and boring gameplay.

Because they "listen to the player base", and that ear might be deaf on certain
frequencies.
People still think that not grinding, is grinding but just slower and laid back,
not seeing that the matter at the core doesn't change: grind.
 
I just meant that the game architecture seems to allow for only quite basic, grindy things. Which is just something we have to accept and enjoy it for what is is.

I dont agree. There is no problem to make a mission chains for Power Play characters. Lets say 30 missions for each PP character that take you through the lore of that power, its history and current events. These missions could lead you to great looking locstions aroud human space or even it could have some Thargoid or Guardians element. Missions could have scripted movie cutscenes recorded in game as it looks great and there is no need for special 3D animations. You can earn special skins, decals or even tuning plastic parts depends how well you fulfuil missions req or what choise you will make. Yes missions could have two or more endings. It will be only 30 missions for each PP character so 330 in total. This will give you feeling of ED world, great fun, and countless hours of fun gameplay. I for example would love to play missions like that with Archon or Utopians (I know nothing about Utopians - one of major powers heh).
It is possible but need work and imagination.

Hell they can hire Drew Weber for mission writing, that woul make imagination part, but still ED need to put some work ! Agggrrhhh....
I am sad it is so simple and yet BEYOND our reach....
 
I offered the idea of procedurally generated unique narrative missions earlier in the thread - as I see that as the simplest, lowest cost solution for bringing "personal narrative" elements into the game. Simple and low-cost enough I could see FD actually implementing something like it. It's the "theme park" way of handing narrative to players. It would be consistent with the game's current theme park structure.

I don't necessarily think it's the right solution, though. I believe your character's journey in the game, his immediate surroundings and interactions with the various NPC's and factions in the world feel so sterile and uninteresting because there's no way to impart lasting change on anyone or anything. Everything is either A) static and uninteractable B) transient and temporary, created only for the one instance and personal bubble around the player, never to be seen again C) immediately bounce back to whatever state they were in before you interacted with them

The right way to solve it, in my mind, is two-fold - it needs to be because this is both an online multiplayer game and a solo game - you need more complex, persistent AI-controlled NPC's that move around in the galaxy just like players do and have their own motivations and agendas and with whom you could interact in various ways, including trade, diplomacy and combat - and which, importantly, also interact with each other in non-predetermined ways, so there's story that goes on even without the player interacting with it. They could have escape pods similar to players if you don't want every one of them murdered within 4 hours of the system being introduced to the online universe.

The other prong of this approach is giving players the means to form organizations, build and trade things and wage organized war against each other, however much some will cry that it will "turn Elite into Eve" or whatever bogeyman scenario it triggers in their mind. Those people, I can only conclude, are against having any sort of player-generated narrative.

If you want the creation of narrative to be the responsibility of the players you have to build the framework and mechanics that actually enable them to create that narrative. Make it more like an actual sandbox game, rather than the theme park it currently is.

Of course all this would be very expensive and complicated to implement so I'm not holding my breath for it. Of course, you could make it cheaper by only implementing one half of it - either NPC's or proper multiplayer narrative - but then you'd be favouring either the multiplayer experience over solo or vice versa.
 
I dont agree. There is no problem to make a mission chains for Power Play characters. Lets say 30 missions for each PP character that take you through the lore of that power, its history and current events. These missions could lead you to great looking locstions aroud human space or even it could have some Thargoid or Guardians element. Missions could have scripted movie cutscenes recorded in game as it looks great and there is no need for special 3D animations. You can earn special skins, decals or even tuning plastic parts depends how well you fulfuil missions req or what choise you will make. Yes missions could have two or more endings. It will be only 30 missions for each PP character so 330 in total. This will give you feeling of ED world, great fun, and countless hours of fun gameplay. I for example would love to play missions like that with Archon or Utopians (I know nothing about Utopians - one of major powers heh).
It is possible but need work and imagination.

Hell they can hire Drew Weber for mission writing, that woul make imagination part, but still ED need to put some work ! Agggrrhhh....
I am sad it is so simple and yet BEYOND our reach....

A very good suggestion there,
to start with and develop further
leading to great non PP bound story elements!
 
Objectively true (I guess?) but be aware there're players around who don't even know what you're talking about. I'm one of them (in a way) and I guess the reason why I don't feel (mind the wording) the grind is that I'm just playing the game and I'm not very focused on certain goals. I do pick my goals, but I never push them really hard. If I would do that, I can very well imagine how grindy this system might feel.

And so also those people who say that a huge portion of the grind lies in the player's head, in his mindset or his general approach to the game do have a point for sure.

Probably, but i can't imagine players not wanting
to have the chance of experiencing a living galaxy,
where choices do matter.

Navy rank is the easiest example,
it just is a flag, but that flag doesn't stand for anything.
I am ranked on a medium navy-rank with the feds,
but i have stolen millions of their funds in the form of diamonds,
laid waste to their navy ships and still am ranked with them?
0 Consequence gameplay, 0 meaning.

Instead is a diversely labelled grind, devalueing
your time and money, just to access ships.
 
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Personal narrative should tie into REPUTATION.
Allow us to make friends for real and have NPC wings
that aid us or tip us off.
Make REPUTATION matter, make it do something.
Grinding is boredom.

Agreed. There's not much to narrate about your story if your existence and actions don't mean anything to anyone and there is no meaninful interaction with anyone. E.g. Engineers do care a bit about the player but the interaction with them is bizarre and static (same to everyone). There are many ways how your reputation, notoriety and ranks could naturally change your interaction with them and be meaninful. We have very little of that. I don't expect Tech Brokers to be any better in this sense.

However, crime & punishment changes, anonymous docking, notoriety, hackable megaships, ATRs, anarchy systems and interstellar factors may provide some opportunities for interesting criminal narrative. Crime at least has some serious consequences. And there are some ways to migitate those consequences. That's good. (Though criminal activities still need much improvement and tuning.)

Can it be that being a criminal will soon have more depth than any other career? :eek:
 
Agreed. There's not much to narrate about your story if your existence and actions don't mean anything to anyone and there is no meaninful interaction with anyone. E.g. Engineers do care a bit about the player but the interaction with them is bizarre and static (same to everyone). There are many ways how your reputation, notoriety and ranks could naturally change your interaction with them and be meaninful. We have very little of that. I don't expect Tech Brokers to be any better in this sense.

However, crime & punishment changes, anonymous docking, notoriety, hackable megaships, ATRs, anarchy systems and interstellar factors may provide some opportunities for interesting criminal narrative. Crime at least has some serious consequences. And there are some ways to migitate those consequences. That's good. (Though criminal activities still need much improvement and tuning.)

Can it be that being a criminal will soon have more depth than any other career? :eek:

I don't think criminal careers will see deeper interaction levels.
Again the changes are not bad, but they just broaden the surface again.
I don't know how clear a feedback is needed for FD to understand.
I can only repeat myself:
Depth is the logical consequence of the game making things persistant,
like the economy. Without persistant economy, there can be no persistant NPCs,
there cannot be a deep interactive level to trade, and thus there can't be deep and
interactive piracy.
 
Remove the 'personal'. A novel is narrative. A checklist of unlockables is not narrative. I thought the point was extremely clear. Guess I was wrong.

That is the point I thought was trying to be made but a novel is not a good example to apply to a game or the phrase "personal narrative". There is nothing personal about the narrative of a book. As I said a couple of posts ago, the more the devs push a story on us, the less personal it becomes.
 
That is the point I thought was trying to be made but a novel is not a good example to apply to a game or the phrase "personal narrative". There is nothing personal about the narrative of a book. As I said a couple of posts ago, the more the devs push a story on us, the less personal it becomes.

Well we could have more freedom of choice what to do,
and with more engaging mechanics, allowing for the CMDR
to really impact something things become personal ;)
 
The question still stands,
as in how the grind should be the narrative?
After yesterdays livestream that showcased
some good changes, i still ask myself if i'd really enjoy
my time using the new engineer system.

The material broker should not be limited to "progressing" material from
very common to very raw, but it should be like in "Heroes of Might and Magic"
where you can trade in anything for another item, even money.

I do not think that the methods we have to increase our materials
at hand, the engineering process and the ship's performance
is any narrative at all.
We just do it, there is no real story behind it.

Please tie in Reputation more into the game,
it just sits there without really doing anything.
 
For me, the "personal narrative" would begin by offering a (sortable) screen which shows all your reputation with every faction you have made contact with throughout your time in E: D.

Currently, there seems to be no way of retrieving this information - so you ally with a faction, use it for a while, move somewhere else and then completely forget about it.

I know they have said they don't want the game to be too "spreadsheet like" but there's a whole raft of information about your personal journey that you have no access to.
 
For me, the "personal narrative" would begin by offering a (sortable) screen which shows all your reputation with every faction you have made contact with throughout your time in E: D.

Currently, there seems to be no way of retrieving this information - so you ally with a faction, use it for a while, move somewhere else and then completely forget about it.

I know they have said they don't want the game to be too "spreadsheet like" but there's a whole raft of information about your personal journey that you have no access to.

That is one side of the coin,
i find the bigger hole is the lack of ability
to "pledge" to a minor faction and have any benefit
or even a semblance of interactivity with them.

They just are spreadsheets currently, there is
no real interaction with the factions.
They do not feel alive, not even the big ones
like the feds do.
 
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