Personal Narrative

The narrative would be personal if there was some sort of linear story-chain event associated with acquiring these weapons. You complete said chain event and get rewarded with said "x" item as a consequence and based on your actions. You could re-do and rinse and repeat the chain event every 30 days or so to get the next item (something along the lines of guild wars story set chain quests).

What we have here is just another steaming pile of garbage mascarated behind what they call "narrative". In reality it's just another grind festival on top of the engineers.

They're just too lazy to write any sort of real narrative and design real content so they price tagged that steaming pile of garbage with material cost because they take longer to acquire than credits and give a sense "accomplishment and progression".
 
Last edited:
Here's my prediction of what they're really going to call "personal narrative" (note that at the end I still won't agree with them, but bear with me).

First, I think (I hope) they don't actually mean that this tech broker "is" the personal narrative, or is an example of what they believe a personal narrative to be. Ed has already tried to reroute this thought process, so I believe it's pretty safe to say.

Next, some people have already touched on it, and I think it's mostly right - you have to notice that some of those items in the list are for a very specific purpose (i.e. dealing with Thargoids), and as we've already seen, those upgrades are typically not useful for any other purpose. So what does that translate to?

I think they'll add more upgrades that are only fit for specific "roles" or "missions". That is, super special mining lasers, or super special limpets, or super special scanners, etc and so on. From the items we've been "given" so far in ED there isn't a wide range of ways they can go there, so the presumption would have to be that they'll add even more. Ok, so now we've got these special items, which in a way forces us down a certain path... or role. So now it's a bit more personal. The "wall" to get past for this, however, is still the "grind wall", and this still isn't an actual narrative, so where does that come in? I think they'll actually make certain missions nigh impossible to do without the "special" tech. All this does, of course, is narrow our focus more, so again no actual narrative, but again it might make it feel a bit more "personalized". So, is there a place where they can actually start implementing *narrative*? Yes, and it's pretty cheesy if you ask me - based on your specific "role", and whatever area of space you choose to fulfill that role, they can start throwing out *global* text updates about what *you* did. I think that's all it will be. It's simple, it's probably almost already possible in the engine, but it's really kind of weak. I could of course be totally wrong here, and frankly I hope I am. I only base this on my experience with this game over 3 years and how they've made their design choices over that time.

I agree with many here who want the actual missions to be a bit more tailored, and for those missions to actually open other parts of the game to the player. That's what some of what the guy on the stream said *implies* (i.e. calling the results of CG's the global narrative, which implies we'll be able to open things for ourselves, but on the "personal narrative" side, with individual missions), but I have the same fear as many that it won't be actual missions but simple material gathering or other non-engaging grind that will be the "key" that opens these supposed narratives.

To me a real "narrative" that they could try to achieve is a means by which you work your way up to a certain role. Certain missions, once completed, open new missions. Each mission is designed to "train" the player on how to learn and hone the skills required for the role they've chosen. Once they've completed the mission they've already proven they're ready for the next step. They can still create some missions that have the player "dabble" in the skills of other roles, which helps them get a taste of something they might actually prefer. For example you might be building yourself up to be a 'goid hunter, so lots of combat missions and such, but maybe to get that certain tech to fight the 'goids, you are tasked with taking a long-haul flight to some far-off system that is the only known location of an otherwise unobtainable item or element. That has you exploring and possibly using other skills. To me this is a much better way to get new players on board and get them going on a nice path. It still doesn't need to be *required* and it still doesn't need to be the *only* way to go down that path; if someone wants to do the 100% grind (which we all do today), then have at it! The completionists can put in their 5,000 hours and get it "all", but that's their choice. You can still make it possible for players to be a "jack of all trades", but they do that through similar mechanisms that exist today - ally with various factions in various systems, meet and "open up" various engineers that can try and get you as close to the "special tech" as they can, but through more random and never quite as sophisticated means - and with potential penalties. Suddenly that design choice of it isn't so crazy, right?

The issue some might have with this is the fact we're not actually "us" in this game - we're our ship. This is even reinforced with the forthcoming C&P system that apparently has your *ship* being branded the criminal and not *you*? (as is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way you can have different ships serve truly specific "roles", with some variation. We all do that already anyway, but now you might actually put more hours in the game (hint) to truly build out very specialized ships, rather than grind out cash and mats to plow into some self-defined version of a "role" ship. I think that's perhaps something FD has in mind here as well - have people customize their ships in ever-more-specific ways, which increases the personalized feel of it all.

All in all there is still a lot of potential here, but I've learned not to get my hopes up - in any way. I like what I've seen of the Chieftain, I like the idea of "off the shelf" upgrades, and I of course want there to be a true "personal narrative" in this game. We'll just have to wait and see what FD's definition of that is.
 
Here's my prediction of what they're really going to call "personal narrative" (note that at the end I still won't agree with them, but bear with me).

First, I think (I hope) they don't actually mean that this tech broker "is" the personal narrative, or is an example of what they believe a personal narrative to be. Ed has already tried to reroute this thought process, so I believe it's pretty safe to say.

Next, some people have already touched on it, and I think it's mostly right - you have to notice that some of those items in the list are for a very specific purpose (i.e. dealing with Thargoids), and as we've already seen, those upgrades are typically not useful for any other purpose. So what does that translate to?

I think they'll add more upgrades that are only fit for specific "roles" or "missions". That is, super special mining lasers, or super special limpets, or super special scanners, etc and so on. From the items we've been "given" so far in ED there isn't a wide range of ways they can go there, so the presumption would have to be that they'll add even more. Ok, so now we've got these special items, which in a way forces us down a certain path... or role. So now it's a bit more personal. The "wall" to get past for this, however, is still the "grind wall", and this still isn't an actual narrative, so where does that come in? I think they'll actually make certain missions nigh impossible to do without the "special" tech. All this does, of course, is narrow our focus more, so again no actual narrative, but again it might make it feel a bit more "personalized". So, is there a place where they can actually start implementing *narrative*? Yes, and it's pretty cheesy if you ask me - based on your specific "role", and whatever area of space you choose to fulfill that role, they can start throwing out *global* text updates about what *you* did. I think that's all it will be. It's simple, it's probably almost already possible in the engine, but it's really kind of weak. I could of course be totally wrong here, and frankly I hope I am. I only base this on my experience with this game over 3 years and how they've made their design choices over that time.

I agree with many here who want the actual missions to be a bit more tailored, and for those missions to actually open other parts of the game to the player. That's what some of what the guy on the stream said *implies* (i.e. calling the results of CG's the global narrative, which implies we'll be able to open things for ourselves, but on the "personal narrative" side, with individual missions), but I have the same fear as many that it won't be actual missions but simple material gathering or other non-engaging grind that will be the "key" that opens these supposed narratives.

To me a real "narrative" that they could try to achieve is a means by which you work your way up to a certain role. Certain missions, once completed, open new missions. Each mission is designed to "train" the player on how to learn and hone the skills required for the role they've chosen. Once they've completed the mission they've already proven they're ready for the next step. They can still create some missions that have the player "dabble" in the skills of other roles, which helps them get a taste of something they might actually prefer. For example you might be building yourself up to be a 'goid hunter, so lots of combat missions and such, but maybe to get that certain tech to fight the 'goids, you are tasked with taking a long-haul flight to some far-off system that is the only known location of an otherwise unobtainable item or element. That has you exploring and possibly using other skills. To me this is a much better way to get new players on board and get them going on a nice path. It still doesn't need to be *required* and it still doesn't need to be the *only* way to go down that path; if someone wants to do the 100% grind (which we all do today), then have at it! The completionists can put in their 5,000 hours and get it "all", but that's their choice. You can still make it possible for players to be a "jack of all trades", but they do that through similar mechanisms that exist today - ally with various factions in various systems, meet and "open up" various engineers that can try and get you as close to the "special tech" as they can, but through more random and never quite as sophisticated means - and with potential penalties. Suddenly that design choice of it isn't so crazy, right?

The issue some might have with this is the fact we're not actually "us" in this game - we're our ship. This is even reinforced with the forthcoming C&P system that apparently has your *ship* being branded the criminal and not *you*? (as is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way you can have different ships serve truly specific "roles", with some variation. We all do that already anyway, but now you might actually put more hours in the game (hint) to truly build out very specialized ships, rather than grind out cash and mats to plow into some self-defined version of a "role" ship. I think that's perhaps something FD has in mind here as well - have people customize their ships in ever-more-specific ways, which increases the personalized feel of it all.

All in all there is still a lot of potential here, but I've learned not to get my hopes up - in any way. I like what I've seen of the Chieftain, I like the idea of "off the shelf" upgrades, and I of course want there to be a true "personal narrative" in this game. We'll just have to wait and see what FD's definition of that is.

Sorry it was too big I couldn't be bothered to read whatever you said but good on ya
 
Yeah its dull, if this is personal narrative how can we call Power Play weapons, or engineres hahah... Only FDev can be so arrogant.
 
Here's my prediction of what they're really going to call "personal narrative" (note that at the end I still won't agree with them, but bear with me).

First, I think (I hope) they don't actually mean that this tech broker "is" the personal narrative, or is an example of what they believe a personal narrative to be. Ed has already tried to reroute this thought process, so I believe it's pretty safe to say.

Next, some people have already touched on it, and I think it's mostly right - you have to notice that some of those items in the list are for a very specific purpose (i.e. dealing with Thargoids), and as we've already seen, those upgrades are typically not useful for any other purpose. So what does that translate to?

I think they'll add more upgrades that are only fit for specific "roles" or "missions". That is, super special mining lasers, or super special limpets, or super special scanners, etc and so on. From the items we've been "given" so far in ED there isn't a wide range of ways they can go there, so the presumption would have to be that they'll add even more. Ok, so now we've got these special items, which in a way forces us down a certain path... or role. So now it's a bit more personal. The "wall" to get past for this, however, is still the "grind wall", and this still isn't an actual narrative, so where does that come in? I think they'll actually make certain missions nigh impossible to do without the "special" tech. All this does, of course, is narrow our focus more, so again no actual narrative, but again it might make it feel a bit more "personalized". So, is there a place where they can actually start implementing *narrative*? Yes, and it's pretty cheesy if you ask me - based on your specific "role", and whatever area of space you choose to fulfill that role, they can start throwing out *global* text updates about what *you* did. I think that's all it will be. It's simple, it's probably almost already possible in the engine, but it's really kind of weak. I could of course be totally wrong here, and frankly I hope I am. I only base this on my experience with this game over 3 years and how they've made their design choices over that time.

I agree with many here who want the actual missions to be a bit more tailored, and for those missions to actually open other parts of the game to the player. That's what some of what the guy on the stream said *implies* (i.e. calling the results of CG's the global narrative, which implies we'll be able to open things for ourselves, but on the "personal narrative" side, with individual missions), but I have the same fear as many that it won't be actual missions but simple material gathering or other non-engaging grind that will be the "key" that opens these supposed narratives.

To me a real "narrative" that they could try to achieve is a means by which you work your way up to a certain role. Certain missions, once completed, open new missions. Each mission is designed to "train" the player on how to learn and hone the skills required for the role they've chosen. Once they've completed the mission they've already proven they're ready for the next step. They can still create some missions that have the player "dabble" in the skills of other roles, which helps them get a taste of something they might actually prefer. For example you might be building yourself up to be a 'goid hunter, so lots of combat missions and such, but maybe to get that certain tech to fight the 'goids, you are tasked with taking a long-haul flight to some far-off system that is the only known location of an otherwise unobtainable item or element. That has you exploring and possibly using other skills. To me this is a much better way to get new players on board and get them going on a nice path. It still doesn't need to be *required* and it still doesn't need to be the *only* way to go down that path; if someone wants to do the 100% grind (which we all do today), then have at it! The completionists can put in their 5,000 hours and get it "all", but that's their choice. You can still make it possible for players to be a "jack of all trades", but they do that through similar mechanisms that exist today - ally with various factions in various systems, meet and "open up" various engineers that can try and get you as close to the "special tech" as they can, but through more random and never quite as sophisticated means - and with potential penalties. Suddenly that design choice of it isn't so crazy, right?

The issue some might have with this is the fact we're not actually "us" in this game - we're our ship. This is even reinforced with the forthcoming C&P system that apparently has your *ship* being branded the criminal and not *you*? (as is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way you can have different ships serve truly specific "roles", with some variation. We all do that already anyway, but now you might actually put more hours in the game (hint) to truly build out very specialized ships, rather than grind out cash and mats to plow into some self-defined version of a "role" ship. I think that's perhaps something FD has in mind here as well - have people customize their ships in ever-more-specific ways, which increases the personalized feel of it all.

All in all there is still a lot of potential here, but I've learned not to get my hopes up - in any way. I like what I've seen of the Chieftain, I like the idea of "off the shelf" upgrades, and I of course want there to be a true "personal narrative" in this game. We'll just have to wait and see what FD's definition of that is.

A lot to get my head round there, and I will have to think this through later. But have some rep for the analysis.
 
Ah I haven't written it off but i have zero expectations :p

When they said personal narrative, my fantasy immediately went to those unannounced paid content things that are to come this year.

A real deflation they anchored the same idea to again, gear progression. Yay elites come up with talent trees. Look that's fine but its not narrative. I'll even extend a 'i get it' to the idea that they might consider elite a raw sandbox internally, but to a non combat play that's not narrative, thats NOTHING (yet).

Sorry i really dont think negatively about that tech broker feature, whatever they have in mind is probably great, its again just pinning that to 'narrative'.

It's a joke. They will never add personal narrative to this game in a meaningful way. It's a systems simulation designed by engineers, for engineers. I'm out.

I'll come back if those content releases are actual story I can engage in. It's the only way to keep people like SpaceGoblin and Domaraa happy, just make it an optional paid-for thing. It's a bit of a slap in the face to the rest of us but there you have it.
 
With apologies to Astirian - your post made me go over my thoughts on this matter, and I'm in an impish mood this morning [wacky], no rancour implied or intended!

It's a joke.

The only laughter I'm picking up is the bitter, empty sound of those pre-judging content they haven't seen in full yet.


They will never add personal narrative to this game in a meaningful way.

To be honest, I hope thats the case. When you are player number 120,472 to go and find Mankrik's wife*, its not really a personal experience. Its just the same ride as everyone else gets to go on, and I doubt FDev has the people or the inclination to create more narrative threads than any single player could hope to complete.

*wowwiki link for those who haven't had the pleasure of that quest [rolleyes]


It's a systems simulation designed by engineers, for engineers.

I'm not much of a one for crunching numbers. I pick my ships and modules based on what looks cool, and how *I* can handle them. I even like the Adder. I'm not even close to being an engineer, but I'm enjoying the game.



Oh, oh, can haz ur stuff? ;)


I'll come back...

Aww, no stuff more me!


...if those content releases are actual story I can engage in.

Then again, maybe stuff!


It's the only way to keep people like SpaceGoblin and Domaraa happy, just make it an optional paid-for thing.

Not sure what that is.

Gear progression as narrative? I'm the least interested in gear progression player you could hope to meet. I have no urge for one of the "big 3", or to engineer every (or even most) module to max or even high end, effect.

And if it turns out that "personal narrative" means "personalising your gear through a personally unique* series of missions" then yeah, they should've called it "gear personalisation missions/brokers". I won't feel slapped in the face though, because eh, why?

*unique as in there are many, many missions and many, many types and combinations of gear, so any two players are unlikely to have exactly the same path/stuff. Disclaimer: all speculative on my part. If.


If you mean 'actual story I can engage in' is the only way to keep 'people like SpaceGoblin' happy, then also nah, because I'm not really interested in that. I'm with those guys who played Skyrim, found the main story both too short and too 'superhero blah, chosen one blah, save the world blah' and went and found the mod that took all that out so I could just be some random shmuck running around Skyrim getting into all sorts of scrapes. And I'm getting plenty of that from ED. Sure it could have more set and NPC dressing, but so could pretty much every sandbox, ever.

I'll wait and see what we get - it might be "gear personalisation by fetch me this, carry me that" it might be "gear personalisation through a branched seqence of missions interspersed with fetch me some of this stuff and that stuff". It might be something else altogether. If we're really lucky, it may not even be something that exists in isolation, but may be tied in to other new and existing things within ED - the Thargoid/Guardian stuff, the BGS, broader mission base, PP, Engineers.


To be honest, I'm fairly ambivalent either way. That may change when I see what we get.


What I'm interested in seeing is the new planet shaders at work, learning more about Thargoids and Guardians (the stuff listed under 'narrative' for the Q1 update) and the new mission rewards system. Oh, and having seen it 'live and in the flesh', the Chieftain piques my interest - I had previously thought it wasn't a good aesthetic match for ED, but having seen it rendered in game and with virtual paint on, I take that back, lookin' pretty cool.

Lets wait until next week, sign in to the open beta, see whats what, then lets see how we feel about that.

Some of us will like it. Some of us really wont. And some, like me*, will be ambivalent.

*probably :rolleyes:

Don't forget I said *if* a lot. I have no idea about the details beyond (no pun intended!) what was in the live-stream.
 
Last edited:
I deplore the term 'narrative'. It's the current 'buzz' word. If anyone uses that to me, they're immediately placed in my mental twerp box. You may as well go the whole hog and do the inverted commas thing with your fingers.
 
I submitted that :

As a personal narrative feature giving even more ways to play elite they could have make it a different way to play as well.
Implement it like a scenario or quest with different phase using existing and new gameplay mechanics.

Just imagine an exploration scenario in order to unlock Thargoid FSD :
- Find the anomaly signal source detected
- then you find a Big Thargoid wreck you can't enter
- then you have to scan different part of the wreck that will lead to an enigma you have resolve to enter or a missing part to enter (tharg probe/wathever)
- then you can access the inside of the wreck but have to figure out how to access the engine room where the Thargoid FSD is (you are assisted by the tech broker or Palin via com panel)
- Once you are able to access the room you can scan the FSD and collect a sample but you triggered the self destruct of the wreck. The heat is going up and you have to get out ASAP.
- Finally you succeed and can bring back data and sample to the broker who will unlock you the FSD based on Thargoid tech as a reward.

Imagine a pirate scenario with the new megaship gameplay etc...

Would be way more interesting, entertaining and challenging than basically grinding mats/commodities quantity.

I don't understand how FDev can implement more grindy stuff when i read so many comment against this tedious and boring gameplay.
 
I submitted that :



I don't understand how FDev can implement more grindy stuff when i read so many comment against this tedious and boring gameplay.

Sadly, I think that’s all they can do with ED. I know, I know. It’s not want we want to hear but I am slowly starting to accept this truth.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
The issue some might have with this is the fact we're not actually "us" in this game - we're our ship. This is even reinforced with the forthcoming C&P system that apparently has your *ship* being branded the criminal and not *you*? (as is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way you can have different ships serve truly specific "roles", with some variation. We all do that already anyway, but now you might actually put more hours in the game (hint) to truly build out very specialized ships, rather than grind out cash and mats to plow into some self-defined version of a "role" ship. I think that's perhaps something FD has in mind here as well - have people customize their ships in ever-more-specific ways, which increases the personalized feel of it all.

Well I read it anyway - cmon Enderby don't be like that.

You make a good point about the ship and the C&P - which is how I took it as well - but then it all gets blurred.... Why have they made that change when the CMDR has rank, and you follow a faction and all the rest of it.

It seems an odd choice to me, if it is indeed how it's going to be implemented. My only guess is it's to combat the "swap for free sidey - get 'sploded - and clean again", but then what's to stop you having a stable of ships, if the ships transponder number is the identifier?

It still seems like a half baked fix - players are smart and they will find a way around it in a matter of days.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
To be honest, I hope thats the case. When you are player number 120,472 to go and find Mankrik's wife*, its not really a personal experience. Its just the same ride as everyone else gets to go on, and I doubt FDev has the people or the inclination to create more narrative threads than any single player could hope to complete.

*wowwiki link for those who haven't had the pleasure of that quest [rolleyes]

This is different from "mankriks wife" quest because of one fundamental difference:

- when wow was launched and the game was new and most players did quests randomly - doing whatever quest they were asked, there would be lots of people running around the barrens in various stages of "have you seen Mankriks wife?"**

My point being it wasn't a solo experience, the way 99% of missions in ED IS. Because ED is almost all solo play, every mission still FEELS personal to some extent - regardless of how many other people have passed that way, because you're the only one there. Apart from CG's has anyone ever got to a mission destination and found 5 other CMDR's all wandering around in random directions asking plaintively "did you find it? / I can't see it / I've been around this place 6 times now, can you help me please?"

**(lol it's how barrens chat got started as players got frustrated and started getting really pretty salty) - I made some reasonable coin from just telling poeople I would escort them to the place :)

The other point is HOW do you make ANYTHING "personal" when it's designed to accomodate thousands of people?

Narrative and choice - the best RPGS are the ones with choice and consequence, ACTUAL consequence rather than imagined.

But for ED to have such a sytem would mean re-writing the entire mission system from the ground up, not to mention writing thousands of lines of dialogue, even were it just text based to give multiple choices, and then have the BGS open or close doors for your character accordingly.

Maybe one day we might get mission chains that emulate the "epic arc" storyline in Eve Online, which as I've suggested many times - but it won't be soon - 2 years at the earliest, even if they started today.
 
Did you guys read the new Stephen King novel? Man it was great. My favorite part was where the protagonist was like "...and 40 units of tin. And that's corrosive multicannons unlocked. Ok, next up I need 40 iron, 40 carbon, 40 arsenic, and 40 wake scans..." Riveting stuff. His best narrative yet.

I did get the sense that there might be some ACTUAL personal narrative still to come, but I guess we'll see.

I am not sure what point is being made here.

There is absolutely zero personal narrative in a novel, no matter how good it is. Every reader is reading exactly the same story.
 
I just meant that the game architecture seems to allow for only quite basic, grindy things. Which is just something we have to accept and enjoy it for what is is.
 
I am not sure what point is being made here.

There is absolutely zero personal narrative in a novel, no matter how good it is. Every reader is reading exactly the same story.
That’s... debatable, but wasn’t the point being made. The point, as I see it, was that it was the personal narrative of the protaganist that was being told through the novel, and that endlessly doing fetch quests did not make for an interesting narrative.
To put it differently, I feel more or less everyone wants a personal narrative that seems like it could come right from a novel, tv series, film, etc., and that grinding materials doesn’t make that narrative interesting, and in fact does the very opposite of that. Even calling it part of a personal narrative is a bit of a stretch, but in theory it might work if they streamlined the materials collection process and gave the rest od the personal narrative, well, more personal things and more narrative.

I just meant that the game architecture seems to allow for only quite basic, grindy things. Which is just something we have to accept and enjoy it for what is is.
The current architecture is like that, yes, but that doesn’t mean we have to accept it because the devs can change that, and thus allow for proper stories within the game to be told. Simply expanding possible interactions, giving a log book, allowing people to highly specialise in certain areas of the game and advance in that by doing just that gameplay would be a massive step in that direction.
 
Last edited:
That’s... debatable, but wasn’t the point being made. The point, as I see it, was that it was the personal narrative of the protaganist that was being told through the novel, and that endlessly doing fetch quests did not make for an interesting narrative.
To put it differently, I feel more or less everyone wants a personal narrative that seems like it could come right from a novel, tv series, film, etc., and that grinding materials doesn’t make that narrative interesting, and in fact does the very opposite of that. Even calling it part of a personal narrative is a bit of a stretch, but in theory it might work if they streamlined the materials collection process and gave the rest od the personal narrative, well, more personal things and more narrative.

The current architecture is like that, yes, but that doesn’t mean we have to accept it because the devs can change that, and thus allow for proper stories within the game to be told. Simply expanding possible interactions, giving a log book, allowing people to highly specialise in certain areas of the game and advance in that by doing just that gameplay would be a massive step in that direction.

But the more the Devs push a story on us, the less personal it becomes.
 
Back
Top Bottom