Piracy exists in this game? Or 90% of traders - grifiers.

[askavir]

Actually there are real player pirates in the game, although thy're a small minority compared to general gankers.

A long time ago I had lost my mind and actually bought a Type 7 as I was tired of my first ASP and wanted to accelerate profit to get what would become my first and love for all eternity Clipper. There was no Vulture back then to make quick and easy money, so I actually let lucifer tempt me into flying a T7 for a while to make some money.

On my way to Leesti, a role-playing pirate in Federal Dropship with very good manners interdicted me and with very eloquent and XVIIth century navy choice of wording, demanded me some cargo to be left to follow my path.

Unfortunately, my in-game character absolutely refuses to give a single ton of the cheapest commodity to pirates. So I did what I always do when completely outgunned: farted in his general direction and blasted away. The thing is, there's no such thing as "blasting away" in a T7. Damn thing couldn't outrun a giant turtle of the galapagos. And to make matters worse, the T7 is made of cardboard.

The pirate gentleman actually gave me a second chance to relinquish some cargo before opening fire, seeing me trying to evade him in a somewhat brisk, sloth-like pace. You can guess the end of the story.

It was a just punishment for letting greed and Clipper lust take over me so much I actually tried to use the most ridiculously defenceless, worthless giant sitting duck in all the galaxies shipyards, the T7.

Anyway, back on topic, there are indeed real role-playing pirates out there. But they're heavily outnumbered by "kill-for-lulz" kind of players. Fortunately, its very easy to predict where the "kill-for-lulz" are, and unless you fly a completely defenceless sitting duck ship, no "kill-for-lulz" will ever even come near you as they only pick on targets that they are 100% sure would pose absolutely no threat at all.

 

[Privata]

Elite is not a grind , because it does not force you to grind to be able to continue

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

whenever i got interdicted by another player, it was just to kill me (a viper isn't supposed to have valuable cargo, so the intention was clear). even now that im in a vulture, i get interdicted whenever i am around a community goal target terminal, even if the goal is only intelectual goods (aka exploration data!).

ok, a few days ago i got accidentally interdicted in my vulture, because the attacker didn't see i was in the same power.

and i play in open to meet other player. due to the lack of any form of open chat, that is a hard thing, and in most cases you only see new player, or pvp-addicts.

 

[simo2003]

Well, I dont combatlog, but I have another idea for you. I refuse to be a npc for your own amusement.

Honestly, I don't think this is the answer. Open is exactly that - a free-for-all, warts and all. If you aren't OK with being a possible target, then Open probably isn't for you. My experience of 'proper' pirates in E: D is overwhelmingly positive. As long as you don't continue to ignore warnings, you can expect to give a fraction of your cargo from one trade run, and continue on your merry way.

Sadly, some players do treat others as a punch-bag, interdicting and then opening fire with what I suppose they imagine is some sort of crazy surprise attack. I've only ever been on the receiving end of that once. Situations like this are the crux of the problem. As others have said, announcing your intent in super-cruise is a pretty good idea so others know what to expect. You can also use a program like AutoHotKey to create a command that will automatically type in a message in the chat box after you interdict a player with a button press. Something like: "Cut your engines and prepare to be scanned for cargo. Attempt to escape and I will open fire!" Be as creative as you want - in my view this adds a lot of fun and colour to the game and it signals to your victim that you're not just there for the pew-pew.

I'm generally against the idea of too many game modes (just my humble opinion), like Open PvE. With such an enormous place to play in, I think it's better to avoid fragmenting the player base too much.

 

[Bill Clement]

Another for the 'I don't want to get blasted to smithereens for some ganker's amusement', here. I don't even know how to combat log, but I'm no longer interested in the role-playing aspect of interdiction.

I now assume that a CMDR interdicting me intends to kill me- because that's been my exclusive experience of interdiction for months now. Watching youtube videos shows my experience isn't uncommon. Guys in helpless traders- mine isn't, btw- getting obliterated by heavily armed gangbangers is pretty common. Six months ago I'd have hung around and either negotiated or duked it out. Now I either run or run out my guns, depending on how tough the interdicter looks. It breaks immersion, it defeats the whole purpose of being in open, but I assume if you interdict me you're no pirate, you're just a griefer or ganker- a bully too scared or pants at the game to fight it out in CQC, RESs or Combat Zones.

The solution isn't to cry about combat logging, or (in my case) cry about other players acting like complete tools. It lies in 'pirates' acting more like Jack Sparrow and less like Pol Pot. OP, you're a victim of your game role being hijacked as a shield for a sizable minority of players who enjoy griefing and ganking. If you want that to change you can join me and try to push FD to define what they see as griefing, or you can condemn 'pirates' behaving like foxes in a chicken run. I don't think you're going to convince someone who'd rather crash their game than play with you to come back into the fold, though- they've already decided you're not worth their time...

 

[Loetmichel]

The solution isn't to cry about combat logging, or (in my case) cry about other players acting like complete tools. It lies in 'pirates' acting more like Jack Sparrow and less like Pol Pot. OP, you're a victim of your game role being hijacked as a shield for a sizable minority of players who enjoy griefing and ganking. If you want that to change you can join me and try to push FD to define what they see as griefing, or you can condemn 'pirates' behaving like foxes in a chicken run. I don't think you're going to convince someone who'd rather crash their game than play with you to come back into the fold, though- they've already decided you're not worth their time...

^^ exactly this. BLaming the combat loggers ist barking at the wrong tree. Although CL unneccessary because once all Traders are aware of Highwaking and Mobius there is no need to CL. BUt the reason for people doing this is IMHO that they only experienced gankers and similar "reduced empathy" people. And for being in open: there are many reasons. Startignn from flying in a Trade wing over trying to meet other Players at a station or in sc for a talk to fuelratting (not supposed to be a complete list). Pirates who are unhappy with CL: simply kill Playerkillers of the silly kind. And sooner or later there will be less Combat loggers and more nice "pirating experiences"... BTW: if i get interdicted by a single commander i comply. and am on your tail with weapons blazing. BEFORE you have shreedded of your interdiction rotation, nevertheless asking for any cargo

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Players might be more inclined to submit to pirates if there were missions like:
"We have some cargo cannisters, with secret locators, that we want the pirates to steal so we can find their base. Your mission is to get a pirate to steal your cargo."

 

[Captain Howdy]

gotta protect dem pixtels

 

[Lucifer Hate]

The thing is for everyone that has no problem with players that combat log is this

Piracy and pvp is not against what FD has said is gameplay in Elite but combat logging they have said is against the rules. so hopefully they will enforce penalties against those that do CL and then maybe we will see it less

 

[tranquil eternity]

The solution isn't to cry about combat logging, or (in my case) cry about other players acting like complete tools. It lies in 'pirates' acting more like Jack Sparrow and less like Pol Pot. OP, you're a victim of your game role being hijacked as a shield for a sizable minority of players who enjoy griefing and ganking. If you want that to change you can join me and try to push FD to define what they see as griefing, or you can condemn 'pirates' behaving like foxes in a chicken run. I don't think you're going to convince someone who'd rather crash their game than play with you to come back into the fold, though- they've already decided you're not worth their time...

^^ exactly this. BLaming the combat loggers ist barking at the wrong tree. Although CL unneccessary because once all Traders are aware of Highwaking and Mobius there is no need to CL. BUt the reason for people doing this is IMHO that they only experienced gankers and similar "reduced empathy" people. And for being in open: there are many reasons. Startignn from flying in a Trade wing over trying to meet other Players at a station or in sc for a talk to fuelratting (not supposed to be a complete list). Pirates who are unhappy with CL: simply kill Playerkillers of the silly kind. And sooner or later there will be less Combat loggers and more nice "pirating experiences"... BTW: if i get interdicted by a single commander i comply. and am on your tail with weapons blazing. BEFORE you have shreedded of your interdiction rotation, nevertheless asking for any cargo

Gankers are not justification for combat loggers. I'm sure that most of robbed traders few times in a row will be combat log in next time. Also FD said, player killers are legit, so if you not agree with it, go to solo or private group. And FD should be punish combat loggers more harder, example ban them from open for month.

 

[Sandmann]

But I don't understand, why you hate piracy... It's a very fun part of the game.

Only for the pirate, usually. Not so much for the victims.

Most so-called pirates aren't really pirates, they just call themselves that as an excuse to blow up weaker players.

 

[Loetmichel]

Gankers are not justification for combat loggers. I'm sure that most of robbed traders few times in a row will be combat log in next time. Also FD said, player killers are legit, so if you not agree with it, go to solo or private group. And FD should be punish combat loggers more harder, example ban them from open for month.

Did you even read what i posted?

I said its unneccessary at all. and i AM in mobius unless i have to rescue one poor soul that forget to fuel up. but i am no target for gankers because i can bite back hard.
i didt justify any CL, i wanted to explain why people think they have to cl and what will help to remedy it. The only thing that banning them will do is that open is even more barren
than now. if you want targets to pirate: protect them from Gankers. Simple as it is.

 

[aws357]

True RP pirates are like the agressive homeless panhandler with the cardboard "dunce 4 monee".

Just because they exist does not means you necessarly want to shake their hands. Even when they smile (that deranged intoxicated toothless smile °-° )

Depending on your actions :

If you leave a dime, panhandler is happy and go bother someone else. (or he would drop his pants and dance °-° *the horror... the horror...* )

If you don't, you have an angry homeless dude with a gun. If you are fast enough and wear bulletproof jacket, just run.

 

[Sandmann]

i wanted to explain why people think they have to cl and what will help to remedy it. The only thing that banning them will do is that open is even more barren
than now. if you want targets to pirate: protect them from Gankers. Simple as it is.

Yep, gotta agree. People CL because noone WANTS to be someone else's victim, regardless of how much the pirate or ganker WANTS them to, and they distrust people who say they're only pirates because so many "pirates" are really gankers.

Want people to trust "pirates"? Pressure FDev to do something about gankers.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Pretty much this. Even though piracy is advocated on the main sales page people assume you're an a hole for doing it and feel justified to combat log.

Guess what?

Thief's are a whole bunch of degenerate humans who deserve nothing for free but insist on acting like they are entitled to it.

Pirates are thiefs.

 

[xondk]

So we can grind, we can explore, we can fight, but piracy... I tried to rob players for few month and 90% of players are combat log. I hear about grifiers, but not seen them before became a pirate. These traders are a real grifiers, they destroying my enjoyment of the game. :S

Piracy happens, however griefing does also, people going to community events or specific trade routes just to kill the people there, they aren't trying to pirate just kill.
If you have a macro or at least introduce yourself, and in general not fire instantly my impression is that most people will accept such, and you can negotiate.
However yes there is a stigma in games, that you are a 'loser' if you die or get pirated. And unfortunately in games like Elite that causes some people to disconnect to avoid dying or losing any cargo.

Which is unfortunate, because the risk of pirating is part of the game helps make it exciting.
That said the risk of griefers is there as well, and this provides near nothing to the game, when I refer to griefers it is those that attack others with the wish to destroy them for no other reason then to destroy and hurt them, and enjoy doing so.
This unlike real pirating, actually hurts the game a lot in my mind, especially since it causes less to use open, and removes the chance of random encounters with other players. And random encounters should be just that, random, you don't know if its a pirate or such, or if its a friendly person you might end up flying with. And right now griefers are causing people simply to avoid that random factor.

 

[Yank31]

Yep, gotta agree. People CL because noone WANTS to be someone else's victim, regardless of how much the pirate or ganker WANTS them to, and they distrust people who say they're only pirates because so many "pirates" are really gankers.

Want people to trust "pirates"? Pressure FDev to do something about gankers.

Nicely put.

But how do you segregate between "evil gankers" and "ok pirates"? The fact one kills you, I guess. So what's the deal, should we ask/beg/demand/dream that killing a clean cmdr = way harsher consequences for the killer?

And have exceptions for powerplay, bounties, what do I know?

Even then, how do you segregate between an "evil ganker" that shot and killed without a word, and an "ok pirate" that had to shoot, and eventually kill, because the target refused to cooperate.


Tough thing to balance out... :s

 

[Sandmann]

Guess what?

Thief's are a whole bunch of degenerate humans who deserve nothing for free but insist on acting like they are entitled to it.

Pirates are thiefs.

While this is true, in the game the RP thieves are ROLEPLAYING thieves, so I'd suggest that it's appropriate that their victims ROLEPLAY their disgust at the thievery. Gankers however are not roleplaying, they're just out to spoil someone else's day, so while it's also true CL-ing is considered "against the rules", I'd suggest that it's also an appropriate response to ganking. (Ever notice how gankers are quick to defend "the rules" when it's about combat logging, but whine like little children when you suggest that ganking is ALSO "against the rules", and will twist meanings to try to prove that their particular brand of ganking isn't actually griefing? How bout dat.)

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But how do you segregate between "evil gankers" and "ok pirates"? The fact one kills you, I guess.

Therein lies the rub. Even a pirate killing a victim should be appropriate in a case where a victim attempts to defend themselves, which makes it EVEN HARDER for the pirate to be determined from the ganker, ESPECIALLY to get that determination into software since it's mostly about intent, which can't be proven.

So... the solution is NOT to try to make rules to say "this is griefing, and that is pirating. This is allowed, and that is not". That's impossible to achieve. The solution is two-fold (and I've said this SO MANY times before)...
1: give pirates REAL, EFFECTIVE tools to SUPPORT piracy WITHOUT needing to kill victims... ie: enact non-lethal piracy that only attracts minor penalties
2: institute REAL, MEANINGFUL responses and consequences for "murder" outside of warzones, powerplay, CQC arenas etc.

If pirates can do "their job" effectively WITHOUT killing their victims, then any pirate that DOES kill their victims (without being fired upon first) is automatically a ganker who gets real, appropriate consequences.

PvP would still be quite possible and free of consequence, in appropriate, non-ganky ways and would be easily avoided by those who didn't want it without them having to isolate themselves in mobious or solo.

Ganking would ALSO still possible (for those who demand that ganking is an intended part of the game), it just means that it'll actually HURT you if you do it (remember, that when roleplaying a psychopath you should expect realistic roleplayed consequences. Yes they said you could play your way, but they never said you could do so consequence-free).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I enjoy piracy against NPCs. Its fun. I don't think i could find much fun in pirating a player though.

 

[Ian Skippy]

in the game the RP thieves are ROLEPLAYING thieves, so I'd suggest that it's appropriate that their victims ROLEPLAY their disgust at the thievery.

Agreed.

Gankers however are not roleplaying, they're just out to spoil someone else's day, so while it's also true CL-ing is considered "against the rules", I'd suggest that it's also an appropriate response to ganking. (Ever notice how gankers are quick to defend "the rules" when it's about combat logging, but whine like little children when you suggest that ganking is ALSO "against the rules", and will twist meanings to try to prove that their particular brand of ganking isn't actually griefing? How bout dat.)

It is much simpler than that: FD explicitly came to the boards to say CL is against the rules. If someone does it, you can report them. Shooting at someone in this game is *not* against the rules, even if you dont like to be shot. Even if you dont understand why it happens. Even if you will automatically assume whatever reasons that person had were 'invalid' and you had some kind of authority to determine that. If you dislike it so much you want to prevent it at all costs, you can play group mode or solo mode. What you cannot do is play Open mode, and then cheat whenever you dont like the consequences of your choices. I have no idea why anyone would want to be a trader in Open if you're going to DC at the first sight of a pirate, it makes no sense. Beyond maybe some weird and false sense of pride that one is 'brave enough to enter Open' or some such. Nobody has to like pirates. But everyone who intentionally enters Open should accept their existence, and handle them according to the rules. People who cannot should go back to kindergarten and re-learn why games have rules and stop justifying their own cheating.

Maybe on the way back from Kindergarten they should go back to the Pilot Federation school. Apparantly many sad traders missed the lectures on 'dont fly in a straight line from A to B in SC', 'don't try to escape a clipper in a T7 by boosting in a straight line' and 'check your radar once in a while'. You know, the lectures right after 'this is how you can grind tons of cr using third party tools' and 'here is where you can complain after your terrible choices led to your demise'.

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I enjoy piracy against NPCs. Its fun. I don't think i could find much fun in pirating a player though.

Same here so far. Will try cmdrs when crime&punishment has changed.