Planet Zoo Mods?

[Harlequinz Eg0]

Hey mod tools dev here, Want to clear up a coupling things about Modding difficulty.

The game is already designed to be very modular and is actually very nice and easy to mod. the only thing difficult is well making tools ourselves and the vast majority of modding is just having the patience to go and do it.

The idea of wanting frontier "support for modding" shouldnt be about making the game code different, in fact please do not request that after we spent so much time developing useful modding tools. If anything frontier support that we'd want is just say having a modding photos / discussion section on the forums which would be cool. but hey its their choice on whether to allow that and Im happy they let discussion on it happen here at all.

I do truly believe that modding communities make the game last longer and can drive more sales as skyrim and ARK show.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Hey mod tools dev here, Want to clear up a coupling things about Modding difficulty.

The game is already designed to be very modular and is actually very nice and easy to mod. the only thing difficult is well making tools ourselves and the vast majority of modding is just having the patience to go and do it.

The idea of wanting frontier "support for modding" shouldnt be about making the game code different, in fact please do not request that after we spent so much time developing useful modding tools. If anything frontier support that we'd want is just say having a modding photos / discussion section on the forums which would be cool. but hey its their choice on whether to allow that and Im happy they let discussion on it happen here at all.

I do truly believe that modding communities make the game last longer and can drive more sales as skyrim and ARK show.

Thanks for all your hard work! I’m excited that we can all work together (modders, hardcore fans, casual fans and Frontier employees) to make this game into something amazing

 

[XT]

I think Frontier has been pretty clear on their stance on mods for PZ, so anyone who uses mods will be using them at their own risk for the forseeable future. For a game that's being actively worked on by Frontier, there's no business advantage to working with modders (what if you open the game up for modding and someone creates some mods that duplicate work you were planning to charge money for?) and you start to run into potential liability issues if you take a modder's work/suggestions/assistance without reimbursing them, and place it in a game you then charge money for. They also can't cooperate with modders on an active game only to have someone load a mod that ruins their game entirely, because they've accepted an implied responsibility for modders' work. I'm also pretty sure they have no desire to spend time and money vetting either individual modder's level of responsibility and skill, or every mod that comes out in the game.

I have no problem with mods, even in this game - I have used a few myself - but I'm aware that any such use is totally on me to vet the mods, make sure they're installed properly and that if something breaks down, it's my problem to deal with.

The fact that they use a proprietary engine only makes it worse and, it also likely means they're not likely to open the game up to modders, even when they're done supporting it. Alas.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I think Frontier has been pretty clear on their stance on mods for PZ, so anyone who uses mods will be using them at their own risk for the forseeable future. For a game that's being actively worked on by Frontier, there's no business advantage to working with modders

I disagree strongly. A lot of active developed games show, that mods bring on more people and let players enjoy the game much longer. Just having more animals will help us be even more invested in PZ.
And a lot of people already mentioned, that if there IS a species overlap, the official version will always be prefered. And by the way: Before the SA pack came out, there was a modded jaguar. It was discontinued by the modder when the SA came out, to respect Frontier. Most modders have high respect for Frontier and will do exactly that.

 

[NL_Mutso]

And a lot of people already mentioned, that if there IS a species overlap, the official version will always be prefered

Only a few on this forum, tbh.
But I've heard a lot of people talk about keeping buying DLC in the future as well but there's an equally large group that they aren't doing that.
They are only going to buy a DLC if a mod requires it.
So basically at this point, we don't know for sure

It was discontinued by the modder when the SA came out, to respect Frontier

I thought it was discontinued because well, there was no point of updating a modded animal anymore when Frontier adds an official one. I think it just stopped working properly.
Most/all animals needed to be updated with every official update and with a lot of mods, people aren't interested into doing that every single time.

 

[Tobs]

Only a few on this forum, tbh.
But I've heard a lot of people talk about keeping buying DLC in the future as well but there's an equally large group that they aren't doing that.
They are only going to buy a DLC if a mod requires it.
So basically at this point, we don't know for sure


I thought it was discontinued because well, there was no point of updating a modded animal anymore when Frontier adds an official one. I think it just stopped working properly.
Most/all animals needed to be updated with every official update and with a lot of mods, people aren't interested into doing that every single time.

The mod creator stated from the beginning that they would remove the jaguar mod once Frontier releases its version. That mod is not available to download, even for previous versions (1.1.).

Anyway, you can be anti-modding, and I respect that.

Can't wait for big content creators sharing their speed-builds with modded animals. Also, can't wait to see a massive pool with swimming orcas, and or dolphins. The first one of the big content creator who does it, I predict it's going to be one of the most viewed Planet Zoo videos. Gonna be epic.

First though, let's get the ball rolling...

 

[Tobs]

As far as updates making mods break, it has been said by someone who understands how this new modding method works that they believe updates will not break them. But I suppose we’ll know soon enough.

That's only about one type of mods. There are many types of mods - so don't place them all in the same bag (to avoid confusion to any non-mod-educated users).

Just to be transparent, I will always encourage anyone to read, inform, educate, learn,... when using mods.

 

[PeppyPepp]

FYI, games cannot be "broken" permanently in Steam - it takes literally a couple of seconds and a few clicks to set the game files back to "factory files". It´s a fully reversible process: if you see that a mod did "break" something, it´s just temporary. Again, it takes a couple of seconds and a few clicks to restore your game files. Thank you Steam.

Yes, thank you. It's a neat little thing if anything breaks. All you have to do is verify files and Steam will replace the foreign, unofficial files. I advise anyone to make a backup when dealing with mods, but this is definitely a useful tip. I do this with other games as well. GOG and Origin also have this feature.

I also just want to point out that modding isn't some "scary" thing. Yes, you are changing/adding the game files, but thankfully, adding mods to PZ is very, very easy. And like I said, reverting to the original state is only one click away.

I will create/use the tools I want, not the one Frontier provides. If modders want to mod a gibbon, fantastic, I will support it. Does Frontier create one as well? I will support it as well... but I will not wait until "Frontier finishes PlanZoo development to see what can, or not, be modded" - life is just too short for that. In fact, Frontier will never say: "alright folks, it´s over for Plan Zoo - have fun!"

I agree completely. I support mods and I will support official content as well.

I quoted you twice, but you make so many great points and I agree with all of them!

 

[NL_Mutso]

Anyway, you can be anti-modding, and I respect that.

Always love the wrong assumptions on this forum.

But I'm only anti-modding when it comes to the online part (Franchise), which I haven't mentioned yet in this thread. I think modding is great when support ends.
Modding ruins the online experience for a lot of people. Always seen people claim that mods will remain singeplayer but eventually always finds a way to the online parts as well.

Personally I think the "official content is always preferred" is not true. With Skyrim SE there's a creator club which allow you to buy supported mods, people always go for the free unofficial version.

I am critical because people tend to only look at the success stories but don't look at negative parts:
Like no/less free content and put in paid DLC or abandoning certain DLC because modding made it less interesting. For some that's a dream come true (they want a modders vision) but for some it's not.

 

[Tobs]

Always love the wrong assumptions on this forum.

But I'm only anti-modding when it comes to the online part (Franchise), which I haven't mentioned yet in this thread. I think modding is great when support ends.
Modding ruins the online experience for a lot of people. Always seen people claim that mods will remain singeplayer but eventually always finds a way to the online parts as well.

Personally I think the "official content is always preferred" is not true. With Skyrim SE there's a creator club which allow you to buy supported mods, people always go for the free unofficial version.

I am critical because people tend to only look at the success stories but don't look at negative parts:
Like no/less free content and put in paid DLC or abandoning certain DLC because modding made it less interesting. For some that's a dream come true (they want a modders vision) but for some it's not.

In a forum, users are obviously only responsible for the words they write. Not necessarily for the interpretation any potential reader might have.

You don't transmit a clear message though. You write user get a wrong assumption you. But then, you go with...

"I'm only anti-modding when it comes to the online part (Franchise), which I haven't mentioned yet in this thread."
"I think modding is great when support ends."
"I am critical because people tend to only look at the success stories but don't look at negative parts"

Collectively if I place your pro and anti modding arguments on a balance, you are anti-modding biased. And that's fine. I respect that. I'm not expecting you to convert or change your opinion either. Each to their own.

I know and acknowledge that modding is not the nirvana - neither I expect it to be. For me, however, modding adds a new plethora of experiences and joy. It's a personal choice. I am selfish. Yes. It's my game. I paid for it. Frontier (as a corporation) doesn't give a toss about its users either (not the case of CM or any specific employees) - they only care about sales and profits. They are being selfish as well. But I'm the consumer. So I choose.

 

[LN]

I am selfish. Yes. It's my game. I paid for it.

Truth to be told. Nothing of the game is yours.

they only care about sales and profits.

This sounds like every other company that is not a charity organization.
I don't see them anything doing wrong in that regard.

 

[Harlequinz Eg0]

But I'm only anti-modding when it comes to the online part (Franchise), which I haven't mentioned yet in this thread. I think modding is great when support ends.
Modding ruins the online experience for a lot of people. Always seen people claim that mods will remain singeplayer but eventually always finds a way to the online parts as well.

Mods cannot effect franchise mode.

 

[Tobs]

Nothing of the game is yours.

That's a whole different topic - and it has consequences on modding.

Are digital downloadable content goods or service? That's the BIG question. If it's a good, then yes, I'm a the owner of the game if I paid for it. If it's a service (spoiler - that's the answer you will get if you ask Frontier), then you are totally right.

Issue is, there's no real consensus nor agreement about it. However, there are some precedents in the European Court of Justice that say digital downloadable software are goods, despite being intangible. Same with electricity (yes, in the EU, electricity is considered a good, not a service - it was in fact the first intangible good). And consumers have rights / consumer protection when they acquire a "good".

Nevertheless, it's not clear water. At the end of this year there might be some more clarity in this regard in the European Union, when the (new) Directive of digital content and digital services comes into action.

Yes, I live in the EU.

If you are interested... some good reads.

Legal protection of computer programs — Marketing of used licences for computer programs downloaded from the internet — Directive 2009/24/EC — Articles 4(2) and 5(1) — Exhaustion of the distribution right — Concept of lawful acquirer

Technology neutral EU law: digital goods within the traditional goods/services distinction

Directive (EU) 2019/770 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 2019 on certain aspects concerning contracts for the supply of digital content and digital services

 

[NL_Mutso]

You don't transmit a clear message though. You write user get a wrong assumption you. But then, you go with..

Collectively if I place your pro and anti modding arguments on a balance, you are anti-modding biased

Usually the issue when you have the middle-road/in-between opinion. I got different opinions on certain aspects of modding.
Not everything is just pro- or anti-. I always wonder, why do some people feel the need of placing people in specific categories?

Oh well, seen some comments from people who hate/despise modding in general. That motivation is mostly fueled by 1 thought: intellectual property.
Those people mostly speak from their personal experiences with their own intellectual property and disagree with the idea of someone else taking over or changing your property.
I know people will disagree with that POV but personally can't disagree with that. It's a POV that I also take into consideration.
And I know that some people have something against the "corporate attitude/mindset", so they'll support free stuff or someone else taking over.

 

[LN]

That's a whole different topic - and it has consequences on modding.

Are digital downloadable content goods or service? That's the BIG question. If it's a good, then yes, I'm a the owner of the game if I paid for it. If it's a service (spoiler - that's the answer you will get if you ask Frontier), then you are totally right.

Issue is, there's no real consensus nor agreement about it. However, there are some precedents in the European Court of Justice that say digital downloadable software are goods, despite being intangible. Same with electricity (yes, in the EU, electricity is considered a good, not a service - it was in fact the first intangible good). And consumers have rights / consumer protection when they acquire a "good".

Nevertheless, it's not clear water. At the end of this year there might be some more clarity in this regard in the European Union, when the (new) Directive of digital content and digital services comes into action.

Yes, I live in the EU.

If you are interested... some good reads.

Legal protection of computer programs — Marketing of used licences for computer programs downloaded from the internet — Directive 2009/24/EC — Articles 4(2) and 5(1) — Exhaustion of the distribution right — Concept of lawful acquirer

Technology neutral EU law: digital goods within the traditional goods/services distinction

Directive (EU) 2019/770 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 2019 on certain aspects concerning contracts for the supply of digital content and digital services

Once you buy the game, you agree to the EULA, and in no way own any part of the game.

2. Grant and Scope of Licence
2.1 Subject to your compliance with the terms of this EULA, we grant you a non-transferable, non-exclusive, non-sub licensable, revocable, limited licence to use the Game.

Source: https://www.frontierstore.net/pz-eula/

I do read terms and conditions prior to purchase, it appears not everybody does...

I'm sure legal terms got this covered, as well as the links you provided.

The EULA is described in the links you provided (from EU) as a reference for terms and conditions.

 

[Bearcat9948]

I do read terms and conditions prior to purchase, it appears not everybody does...

Standing ovation!

 

[NL_Mutso]

I do read terms and conditions prior to purchase, it appears not everybody does...

When it comes to games, basically no.
When I download an app, yes - i want to know what kind of info my phone will provide to them.
When it comes to expensive purchases at home, always.

Btw, same goes with music/e-books on Itunes - you only buy the license to use them.
I've read that discussion when someone tried to put that in their will and wanted to transfer those purchases to another account. It's interesting material..

 

[Tobs]

Once you buy the game, you agree to the EULA, and in no way own any part of the game.


Source: https://www.frontierstore.net/pz-eula/

I do read terms and conditions prior to purchase, it appears not everybody does...

I'm sure legal terms got this covered, as well as the links you provided.

The EULA is described in the links you provided (from EU) as a reference for terms and conditions.

Congratulations! Makes me feel so proud of you.

Anyway, these EULA's challenged in court would quickly become wastepaper IMHO. That's why Frontier has zero interested in legally challenging other companies/cooperations and/or users that don't follow their EULA's, including but not limited to, game re-selling platforms, content creators monetising their YT videos with Planet Zoo content (exploit for profit or gain), content creator streaming (broadcasting) Planet Zoo,...

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with eternal status-quo.

 

[Bearcat9948]

FWIW I made a poll on the PZ subreddit last night asking if people would pay for mods if Frontier decided to make a Bethesda-style Creation Club. It would mean the animals would be roughly the same quality as Frontier dlc pack animals, it would take the burden off of Frontier from having to make 100s of animals, and it would generate a little revenue for both the company and modders will giving us more high quality animals to use. It’s about a 2:1 ratio of people saying they’d willingly pay a reasonable amount for that.

 

[Firestar97]

FWIW I made a poll on the PZ subreddit last night asking if people would pay for mods if Frontier decided to make a Bethesda-style Creation Club. It would mean the animals would be roughly the same quality as Frontier dlc pack animals, it would take the burden off of Frontier from having to make 100s of animals, and it would generate a little revenue for both the company and modders will giving us more high quality animals to use. It’s about a 2:1 ratio of people saying they’d willingly pay a reasonable amount for that.

I would really like something like this if this would mean that those Animals would also be usable in the Franchise Mode