Plasma Accelarator's upcoming "kame hame ha buff" - Is it appropriate or a no go ?

[Alexander the Grape]

Well it will be fun running from every ship I encounter now since I don't have engineered mods or anything to counter these jedi lasers.
(No Horizons DLC)

Hopefully they will reward us NO Horizons DLC players whom successfully earned credits/survived/adapted with better 'somethings'.
(Like 60% off Horizons purchase... Heheh)
Like they rewarded them cannon/plasma users beacuse of their skill.

As had been said numerous times, plasmas are now almsot exclusively for use against engineered vessels. You have more to fear from MCs

- - - Updated - - -

The new PvP meta, PAs only. Oh goody.... more brilliant ideas from the FDev team.

In a plasma only meta, everyone would run heavy duty boosters instead of resistant. So MCs and lasers become better than plasma. So people run resistant augmented... etc etc

The meta will self-correct and never be monolithic

 

[Mohrgan]

The meta will self-correct and never be monolithic

Because of the never ending calls for the taming of one or another Meta. We do it to our selves, by insisting on having the best fit. By letting PvP drive the combat mechanic you necessitate the forum wars for, or against a given Meta. Even in his even handed, and well presented posts, TrueSilver is promoting a Meta. The way he feels is the best form that PvP combat should take.

It is a real shame that combat, a major part of the game, and one I do a lot of, and have a wide interest in, gets represented by only one faction of game play, as indicated by the OP. PvP'ers will spout myths about the superiority of human controlled over computer controlled avatars but, we know the truth about that. It's just different, and has different builds, and a different Meta. Which I would like to see represented.

 

[CMDR Goro]

Considering how hard it is to hit "mad dodging mode NPCs", PA needs damage buff badly.

 

[noa12390]

didn't use them before this will not be using them after you ether get Really close to target or miss the only thing i have ever seen use these things are npc cops/pirates never have seen a player use them

 

[JohnCarter]

My Favorite weapon is making a HUGE comeback.. geddit?? huge?? class 4?? groans.. ok.. yeah that was bad..

I cant wait to test this out. Now I have to head over to Bill Turner and level up.

I'm so going to do this. I wonder if I can go back to my three PA's. Heat will be the limiting factor. I can't wait to start tinkering!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The new PvP meta, PAs only. Oh goody.... more brilliant ideas from the FDev team.

Seems unlikely - there's an obvious counter of going primarily for high-MJ rather than high-MJ shields, for which weapons with good DPE (or possibly phasing sequence) are a much better approach to.

(Also, you have to hit someone with the PAs, which is not straightforward if they're dodging outside point-blank range, and constant PA fire will melt your own ship before it takes them out)

I've seen several highly confident (and different...) predictions of what the "new meta" will be in the last 16 hours, which suggests that it might be a while before one is actually settled on.

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

Hello commanders, hello FDEV...

So with this changes to plasma accelerators, it seems that my latest effort has been a well invested time...

Now I have 4x C2 PA with L5 efficient weapon mod and various special effects, 1 C4 PA with L5 efficient weapon mod and thermal conduit mod...

I tried FDL with PAs in all hardpoints... It is very challenging to use agains small NPC fighters, but when you manage to hit them, often its a one shot death... With these buffs to PAs, its gonna be awesome!

Later I modded 2x C2 G burst lasers with efficient weapon mod too, because having a gimballed weapon still means a big advantage (i am not too great fighter pilot and I have a crappy joystick).

I am having a lot of fun with this build...

Karlos

 

[Ian Doncaster]

It's just different, and has different builds, and a different Meta. Which I would like to see represented.

Well, except that post-engineers, because NPCs are not allowed to be too dangerous, the PvE meta is a lot simpler:
- is your ship quite large?
- does your ship have shields?
- does your ship have guns in all the hardpoints?
- have you put a few engineer mods on them?
Great, you can now win all the PvE.

My armed exploration Python - non-optimised weapons (including at the time one turret...), grade 5 mods but not heavily re-rolled ones throughout (and lightweight mounts rather than anything damage boosting on all the weapons) - was perfectly capable of taking on Haz RES or High-Intensity CZs, without even needing to swap SCBs in.

(I'm much more an explorer than a combat pilot)

 

[EDCez]

As had been said numerous times, plasmas are now almsot exclusively for use against engineered vessels. You have more to fear from MCs

Plasma Accelerators:
Reload time for all plasma accelerators has been reduced to 6 seconds from 8. Which is about an 11% increase to sustained DPS.
All Plasma Accelerator damage increased by 35%.

So the 35% damage and the faster load times will NOT make an NPC any better at destroying my ship?

I have more to fear from MC/ PA"S and if Fdev continues on, RG's / Torp's...

I can not mod my ship to counter it, like more thrust, more speed, or better weapons.. etc..

I'm pointing out that those that only have E(vanilla), although the minority (like cannon/PA users) are the silent victims of these rebalancing. We are not part of the 'consideration'.

Don't forget the wee lil ppl Fdev's, we still play yer product.
And I'd be happy with a sale.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Eh, I don't know. I think what will happen is that the meta will shift away from resistances and to raw hit points - we'll see ships with modded armor and HRPs that add up to a few thousand hull points.

I think you are right. It will probably direct more people to use heavy duty shield boosters or a mix too.

 

[Truesilver]

The way they describe it in the notes, it sounds like the Absolute damage is a bit of a nerf. Perhaps the Abs dmg is calculated differently from thermal/kinetic/explosive ? Idk, but according to my understanding having Abs dmg vs 50/50 thermal/kinetic would be a damage buff in most cases. They are saying it's a roughly 20% nerf at the base end with unmodded shields, so apparently it is calculated differently from my understanding of resistance modifiers.

It means that the thermal:kinetic ratio in plasma is more thermal than previously thought.

I have previously tested rails at 2:1 and my all weapons damage tables set that out and then said that pending testing of plasma I would assume 2:1 also. 2:1 is the tipping point at which absolute damage and damage against an unmodded shield are equal, see my tables at:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/246086-Official-FDev-Damage-Stats-for-Every-Weapon

As Mark has said that absolute damage will do less damage to a shield than application of the existing split, we now know that plasma must have a higher thermal component than 66.6%.

Indeed, the 20% damage reduction mentioned is consistent with being all thermal - odd but consistent also with something else FDev have said about an error concerning plasma split.

[EDIT:- Since posting above just noted that actually Mark didn't say 'against shields' ... which complicates matters further!]

Anyway, about the rest of the thread: I don't think that a big ship or FdL loaded with heavy duty boosters providing preposterous Mj undreamt of before 2.1 needs to be too worried about being fired at by the most distributor wep-cap demanding weapon in the game.

Remember that the rail meta depended on DPE, which plasma lacks.

TTK by full plasma FdL on shield hack Cutter or Corvette will still be like waiting for Christmas 1v1 and in wings still far slower than in 2.0.

The original reasons for my Beta 2.2 proposals concerning beams and/or plasma being given a special that enabled them to de-buff, ignore or directly attack resistant shield boosters was so as to:-

1. Give PvP-ers a rational reason to use these wep-cap hungry weapons in the post-2.1 Galaxy, which is all about DPE;

2. Reduce TTK and the titanic base shield meta, whereby DPS has gone up 70% yet hit points up 400%.

 

[Mephane]

Wow. Very poll. Much unbias.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, about the rest of the thread: I don't think that a big ship or FdL loaded with heavy duty boosters providing preposterous Mj undreamt of before 2.1 needs to be too worried about being fired at by the most distributor wep-cap demanding weapon in the game.

Absolute damage negates vulnerabilities but also resistances. A resistance-focussed loadout doesn't have raw MJ, but a positive value in all resistances. These will be ignored. If you mod your shield boosters and generator with resistances, against plasma they will be as if unmodded (plus the 35% overall damage buff to plasma). The winner here is the raw MJ stacking builds, because for them nothing changes, and plasma buff and absolute damage might even cancel each other out for them.

 

[Shintai]

Protip:
See a NPC? Run for your live!!

^^ This.

 

[goemon]

Now, would you get overcharged or focused? Oh yeah and it's true damage, because lolwhatisdamageresistance

actually i will go longrange, for the speed projectile increase. my current focussed PAs have the speed of MC bullets... they loose that, i'll get rid of them and get longrange PAs.

if i overcome my frustration that the weekend i have spent to mod those 4 PAs was "wasted".

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Some others and myself suggested this buff for PAs. Ignoring resistances is a good way to make the most difficult and expensive weapon viable.

I am 100% behind this change (hence I suggested it, lol). Finally, mega shields and mega hulls have a weak spot. Being hit by plasmas. But to be honest, being hit by a plasma is not really a good job from the attacker but a bad job from the defender. It is quite easy to dodge PAs unless you want to go point blank or use frags only.

 

[Hannibal07]

Some others and myself suggested this buff for PAs. Ignoring resistances is a good way to make the most difficult and expensive weapon viable.

I am 100% behind this change (hence I suggested it, lol). Finally, mega shields and mega hulls have a weak spot. Being hit by plasmas. But to be honest, being hit by a plasma is not really a good job from the attacker but a bad job from the defender. It is quite easy to dodge PAs unless you want to go point blank or use frags only.

If anyone has ever trouble hitting with PA's successfully -> current focused wep mod/upcoming long range mod, problem solved. But in essence it is very easy to hit big vessels with it sooo yea.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

If anyone has trouble hitting successfully with PA's -> long range mod, problem solved. But in essence it is very easy to hit big vessels with it sooo yea.

Against a Corvette/Cutter I usually do 80% hit rate. Against an ASPE I usually do around 50% and against some agile Couriers or FDLs I usually do around 15%. This assumes they all have G5 DD, ofcourse.

Now I can choose between long range and/or overcharged/efficiency.

Ultimately if I feel I am too bad for PAs I go for long range and if I feel I can finally hit with those I get myself some efficiency or overcharged ones.



It punishes those who are not good enough and this is good. As well as it rewards those who can actually use them.

 

[Shintai]

actually i will go longrange, for the speed projectile increase. my current focussed PAs have the speed of MC bullets... they loose that, i'll get rid of them and get longrange PAs.

if i overcome my frustration that the weekend i have spent to mod those 4 PAs was "wasted".

That's an interesting side effect. Seems like a bug on the math behind the range mod.

 

[Marshall...]

It punishes those who are not good enough and this is good. As well as it rewards those who can actually use them.

Exactly my thoughts. Folks seem to be missing the point that they are probably the most challenging weapon to use in the game. Dodging is pretty easy, hitting with them is a challenge.

 

[KR4K40]

actually i will go longrange, for the speed projectile increase. my current focussed PAs have the speed of MC bullets... they loose that, i'll get rid of them and get longrange PAs.

if i overcome my frustration that the weekend i have spent to mod those 4 PAs was "wasted".

With the buff to long range blueprints, that is indeed an interesting idea: less raw DPS, more utility. What grade did you go for to get such awesome projectile speeds?