They've definitely missed a few threads where myself and others have objected to ideas of making body discovery take longer. Either that, or the folks currently in control of ED's future haven't looked back at those threads. Much the same objections back then are the objections being voiced now.
Player Agency in Exploration - Why the 3.3 Honk needs a buff
- Thread starter Mengy
- Start date
They've definitely missed a few threads where myself and others have objected to ideas of making body discovery take longer. Either that, or the folks currently in control of ED's future haven't looked back at those threads. Much the same objections back then are the objections being voiced now.
ooooo naysayers, fancy
here's another analogy for you.
Sexual relations with jabba the hut, well you know the basics right? and how it functions and where stuff goes?.... but you don't need to "test drive" it to know you wont like it
so much like the proposed changes & in the voice of Andy Pipkin "yeah I know - I don't like it"
You are not doing yourself any favours. The analogy is crap, just like your others.
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You keep saying this Max, that we just don't know, but to be fair, we know quite a bit.
If the time it takes is a concern for you, then you've not been listening. They said repeatedly on the livestream it will be faster. It will be faster to scan a system, because you won't have to fly anywhere to do it. That is absolutely clear IMHO.
But if time is your only issue, then you've also not been listening to some of the concerns raised, which are nothing to do with time spent doing a task (that we are interested in doing). Doing something you are interested in, are motivated to do is never a grind.
However, it doesn't matter how much faster it is to scan a whole system if a player doesn't want to scan it, and if the only way to find out if you did or didn't want to scan a system is by actually scanning it, then a proportion of systems scanned will be wasted time and probably very frustrating, no matter how quick the scanning process is.
Exactly. There needs to be preliminary fast info at the start of the loop so a player can tell if they want to do the full FSS minigame or not. Without this info everyone is forced to fully scan a system just to see if they are interested in scanning it, which would be frustrating game design.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
When your most passionate explorer and the most prodigious explorer are both saying you've got something wrong, maybe you've got something wrong.
It's worth noting also I think, that with an overview that allows a player to decide if they want to explore a system further, then the scanning mechanics to do that exploration can really be as complex, involved and detailed as FD want to make them.
Without it, the end result is likely to be a compromise, something that's quick and easy to do, because they are forcing everyone* to do it...
* Everyone who decides to explore at least.
That "addition of probes" is what I thought we were getting, after seeing the Lavecon video earlier in the year. And I would be, as you say, ecstatic about that! Launching probes, mapping a planet, finding persistent POIs, that would be really engaging.
I've struggled to see people's point on all this for a while, but this thread has helped me understand it, if not join in.
The way I've seen it until now is that people cried out for more depth, then cried when a super fast I win button was removed. I see that's not actually what's happening now.
I have to hope that (and have assumed that) the new system will allow you to make the same quick decision based on looking over the initial frequency waves, as is currently done on the system map, but without opening that clunky thing, and not as directly (as in, you don't instantly get pictures of everything and tonnes of details, which always seemed completely mad to me) but you can scan across the info waves, and do a bit of a matrix... "I just see earth like, high metal content, I don't even see the waves anymore..." Kind of thing.
Then investigate further if you wish.
If they pull that off, it should be great.
The way I've seen it until now is that people cried out for more depth, then cried when a super fast I win button was removed. I see that's not actually what's happening now.
I have to hope that (and have assumed that) the new system will allow you to make the same quick decision based on looking over the initial frequency waves, as is currently done on the system map, but without opening that clunky thing, and not as directly (as in, you don't instantly get pictures of everything and tonnes of details, which always seemed completely mad to me) but you can scan across the info waves, and do a bit of a matrix... "I just see earth like, high metal content, I don't even see the waves anymore..." Kind of thing.
Then investigate further if you wish.
If they pull that off, it should be great.
Its not the problem that the honk is easy, its that its very simple. Exploration is about the discovery of the unexpected and exploration in Elite has always missed that very important factor.
From my point of view I find the whole think ridiculous, 3300 something , that is almost 1300 years and we still have not found a way to detect planets in an instant. We can detect planets nowdays by how they effect the light of its star when they pass in front of it, there is a whole science behind this.
So I think the whole , look mom I found a planet, is kinda lame. I think here is where true sci fi imagination comes in. Look at the Star Trek series, they never actually bother which planet is where and what planet is but they is always some weird phenomenon that defies traditional ways of detection. I mean yes I know if I go in a system I will find planets and moons, this is not what will entertain me, what will entertain me is the unexpected the unpredictable.
An asteroid on collision course to a planet
A start going supernova and taking me with it
A planet with abnormal strong magnetic field that makes my instruments go crazy and almost forces me to crash land
The extremely rare discovery of an unexpected wormhole sending me to wherever (this is actually star trek story from the first movie)
Malfunctioning of equipement for some unexplained reason that will require to play a mini game to detect the nature of the issue and apply the appropriate solution in a life or death scenario
The performance of science experiments to acquire new knowledge and even upgrade my modules (self engineering).
The discovery of new materials on the surface of planets , see above
etc
Many of those things do not require new mechanics for the game , because existing mechanics can be used, or complete overhauls. They are mere tricks to capture the attention of the explorer and keep him on his toes. Mini games that are very simple yet fun, like pac man, or tetris.
So there are easy ways to improve exploration however they require also a level of imagination because exploration is all about the story.
From my point of view I find the whole think ridiculous, 3300 something , that is almost 1300 years and we still have not found a way to detect planets in an instant. We can detect planets nowdays by how they effect the light of its star when they pass in front of it, there is a whole science behind this.
So I think the whole , look mom I found a planet, is kinda lame. I think here is where true sci fi imagination comes in. Look at the Star Trek series, they never actually bother which planet is where and what planet is but they is always some weird phenomenon that defies traditional ways of detection. I mean yes I know if I go in a system I will find planets and moons, this is not what will entertain me, what will entertain me is the unexpected the unpredictable.
An asteroid on collision course to a planet
A start going supernova and taking me with it
A planet with abnormal strong magnetic field that makes my instruments go crazy and almost forces me to crash land
The extremely rare discovery of an unexpected wormhole sending me to wherever (this is actually star trek story from the first movie)
Malfunctioning of equipement for some unexplained reason that will require to play a mini game to detect the nature of the issue and apply the appropriate solution in a life or death scenario
The performance of science experiments to acquire new knowledge and even upgrade my modules (self engineering).
The discovery of new materials on the surface of planets , see above
etc
Many of those things do not require new mechanics for the game , because existing mechanics can be used, or complete overhauls. They are mere tricks to capture the attention of the explorer and keep him on his toes. Mini games that are very simple yet fun, like pac man, or tetris.
So there are easy ways to improve exploration however they require also a level of imagination because exploration is all about the story.
Another big concern I have that is a bit more personal, but I know will affect others is the addition of another screen in the nature of the gal map and system map. I use a 34" 1440p 21:9 ultrawide monitor, and Frontier has had numerous bug reports for alignment issues on those since pre 1.0 Beta, and they STILL have not fixed it. I am not looking forward to having to use another screen with this issue.
This is essentially saying you want the systems to be scanned before you scan it. That is illogical. What you mean to say is that you want a system to be prescanned with a single button press before you collect already known planets. Once the system is honked, you basically know everything you need to know about whether you want to collect an item, so the act of "surface scanning" it is just a formality.
This is only one step removed from saying "I'm not undocking until I can see the all the system maps from the galmap. Why should I have to travel 1000 LY if I don't know it's worth traveling 1000 LY?"
I disagree,
Since people are suporting changes on another aspects of the game that WILL interfer (And ruin) another people gameplay (Mission board comunity fix) im now full in to make every gameplay more boring and dificult has possible.
Since people are suporting changes on another aspects of the game that WILL interfer (And ruin) another people gameplay (Mission board comunity fix) im now full in to make every gameplay more boring and dificult has possible.
I vote ... no change to ADS ... still
I posted earlier saying I did not want the ADS nerfing.
I'm not saying I'm against having other tools for people to use to explore, but
Meddling with the ADS would add to "the grind"
Bring on new gadgets for exploring, but leave the others alone.
I posted earlier saying I did not want the ADS nerfing.
I'm not saying I'm against having other tools for people to use to explore, but
Meddling with the ADS would add to "the grind"
Bring on new gadgets for exploring, but leave the others alone.
Ever consider for a second that the reason why more people aren't exploring is because the current system is viewed as trash by a large part of the player base. And only a few people enjoy the point and scan, and thus, are the only ones doing it so of course they defend it?
The biggest complains are that there is little to find, and the things that are out there are exceedingly time consuming and tedious to find. Case in point are volcanics. Great that they are out there, but having to manually search an entire planet with the Mk I eyeball?
Leave everything as it is now, but give players more, new natural phenomena to find, and tools to find them with in addition to what we have now, I think would make a lot of people very happy.
Oh we all want more stuff to find and a better way of finding them. Keeping honk, point and scan though? Nope! Not in a million years, send it to the grave.
I have considered it, certainly, and it's entirely possible that it is the case.
Which is why I'm in favor of adding the new mechanics whilst retaining the existing 'point and scan' option.
That way we can get an influx of new explorers and retain those who enjoy the current system.
Surely that's a win-win?
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No, I don't agree. I wanted to explore when I got Elite, that's WHY I got it. Then I saw what exploring was in this game, so I didn't do it. Point and scan needs to die in a fire.