I think it's partially a result of other issues folks have brought up (in other threads). There's not really a good way of finding other players without outside tools, so it makes sense to hang around high-traffic areas if you want to interact with others
Player-created solutions to player-created problems
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I think it's partially a result of other issues folks have brought up (in other threads). There's not really a good way of finding other players without outside tools, so it makes sense to hang around high-traffic areas if you want to interact with others
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The logical effect of blocking is a simple thing to understand, so it doesn't need much extra info - rigorous quantitative evidence is hard to come by I agree. To clarify, my analogy to mass blocking was comparing it to saying that it is okay to steal (=interfere with free instancing) from poor people (=people dealing with instancing being already flaky) because they are used to having no money anyway. Sorry for anything unclear. And yes I admit I was triggered! Sorry to OP for that.
There are "lawful" organisations of anti-gankers yes. There are also less formal efforts by CMDRs to confront gankers, based on stuff I've read in system chat. As a player-generated solution, these CMDRs announcing their activities in system chat arguably improves the morale of randomly attacked players in itself - knowing there's someone holding their attackers to account where they can, that not everyone is out to get them and some are compelled to action in their behalf. But it would take huge round the clock effort to try to suppress attacks completely. Mistakes would be made, instances would split and some killers would get through.
So perfection is not the object for me, but mitigation to make the level of attacks more plausible in a realistic game, and tolerable so that players aren't "driven" so much to closed modes/block lists by their aversion to what they experience otherwise. Taking the gankers with you too is ideal if possible, as they are players too and many argue the level of griefing in the game only emerges from the lack of opportunity for more rewarding organic PvP. Players exist on a spectrum and treating them like distinct camps isn't helpful, to me.
Never use EDR as I heard some negative stuff about it regarding information security - I don't think it's egregious but I know little about it and can live without it anyway.
The 2 solutions here wouldn't really work. The first- player created bounties would be so open to exploits it would just be a get rich quick scheme. PvP bounty hunting just doesn't work unless you're willing to live with massive credit making exploits.
The second- self destructing. If you can self destruct and this is what actually kills you in the time it takes, you could have escaped. If not, you'll be blown up by the ganker first.
The other thing to remember about players being in Deciat and not CGs or places like San Tu- they actually are. Those that aren't- well I'm sure you can guess what happens to them when the others turn up.
If everyone put armour and shields on their ship or thought "I'm doing something and I don't want to be affected by other players while I'm doing it, so I'll go into solo for a bit", it wouldn't be a problem. Ganking happens because it is so easy and players out there like watching ships go boom. It's a cut-throat galaxy out there commander.
The second- self destructing. If you can self destruct and this is what actually kills you in the time it takes, you could have escaped. If not, you'll be blown up by the ganker first.
The other thing to remember about players being in Deciat and not CGs or places like San Tu- they actually are. Those that aren't- well I'm sure you can guess what happens to them when the others turn up.
If everyone put armour and shields on their ship or thought "I'm doing something and I don't want to be affected by other players while I'm doing it, so I'll go into solo for a bit", it wouldn't be a problem. Ganking happens because it is so easy and players out there like watching ships go boom. It's a cut-throat galaxy out there commander.
So you are telling people can grief others by intentionally blocking people for others and i have no way of seeing that?
So if someone wants to hunt pirates, he can get blocked by someone in his instance of accomplishing his goal?
Seems stupid to me.
What pirates are you talking about? there are so many IFs here... I think you need to read up ALOT MORE on how this game works with its instances... there are quite alot more to be upset about than the blocking...
So.. Can you influence my instance or not?
Yes, either it's a very strange coincidence with "astronomical" odds against, or "PvP" isn't actually what those players are looking for.
Yeah, the first one would also need to be needlessly convoluted. And I did say the second one was the dumbest solution, so...
I disagree that ganking is in the spirit of the game (cut-throat galaxy). If we were talking about piracy that would be one thing. But we're essentially talking about a bunch of folks at a busy intersection with machine guns waiting for people without body armor or weapons to come by, in full view of the police. Deciat was "high security" last time I checked. The game always shows "Anarchy" systems in bright red when you're jumping to them, but in the grand scope of things these are usually the safest ones to be in.
So, that's why I don't feel bad about folks seeking non-PVP solutions to solve problems painted as "PVP." The intent of the ganker is NOT to have a fight, their intent is to kill.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
A PvP solution to the problem would require players to spend time waiting for the call to action - and, given travel times both interstellar and in-system, they would very likely arrive well after the fact (if the instance in which the targeted ship still existed that long after its destruction).
Those seeking gankers need to identify them, find them and travel to them. Gankers don't need to be so selective about their targets.
I was referring more to the idea that the victims should improve their ships/shields/skills/etc. as a solution. The intent of this advice is that it makes it easier for the player to fight off getting ganked, but I feel like it just decreases the chance of a ganker targeting them over someone weaker (As you say, they can pick and choose). Though I agree, this is one of the main flaws in a system where you rely on player police response. Unless you're already in a wing with them, they won't be any help until after the fact.
It also means the player is less effective at their preferred playstyle. This is unique, because nothing I do in exploration will negatively impact PVP players, and force them to change their ship to account for it. Outside of powerplay, nothing I do in trading will negatively impact PVP players, and force them to change their ship to account for it.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The trick would be how the game would differentiate between ganking and someone attacking someone else because of player faction wars or similar. FDev do need an overhaul of the whole C&P mechanisms and system security are hopelessly weak
The problem with lawful players coming to the defence of a player being ganked, the time it takes to gank someone means it's simply not possible for anyone to stop it happening. It takes 15 seconds following the interdiction for either the ganked player to be blown up or escape. The player(s) doing the ganking will be in a combat ship capable of lasting for 15 minutes in a 1v1. As a result, it can't really be prevented. If it can't be prevented and there's nothing to say that it's wrong (i.e. against the terms of service) it's going to happen, like it or not. It's like saying the triple hotspot in Borann wasn't in the spirit of the game and players shouldn't have gone there
I've no problems with players using intended game mechanics either. It's just that being ganked is avoidable.
Well player created bounties would not be get rich quick scheme as exploit, but could be exploited as credit transferr scheme. Would need three willing participicants. First player setting bounty and providing cash, second one who would be target of bounty, and third one the recipient getting the bounty money.
Problem: Fuel
Solution: Fuel Rats
Problem: Hull
Soultion: Hull Seals
Problem: Ganking
Solution: Education
All three of those are certainly player-driven solutions to player-created problems. There are discord servers for each. If you are looking to organize or get help with anything in this game, discord seems to be the place to do so.
To touch on that last one specifically, giving someone the knowledge to survive, or at least pointing them in the right direction, will do more good for someone in-game than any lawful wing likely could.
For the good guys to help you, you must first learn to help yourself. What I’m saying is, you need to be able to stay alive long enough for them to reach your wake, or escape. Otherwise, they’re just going to be dropping on your wreckage and a hostile ship that’s already on its way out.
Intercepting bad guys before they pull someone is the most effective method they have, but sometimes they slip through the cracks. When that happens, you need to be prepared.
Edit to add: You can make money much faster in traditional ways instead of slowly grinding up a bounty with an alt account and collecting it.
That’s a silly, ineffective way of getting rich.
Remove the 2 million cap already so hunting players is worth the risk.
Solution: Fuel Rats
Problem: Hull
Soultion: Hull Seals
Problem: Ganking
Solution: Education
All three of those are certainly player-driven solutions to player-created problems. There are discord servers for each. If you are looking to organize or get help with anything in this game, discord seems to be the place to do so.
To touch on that last one specifically, giving someone the knowledge to survive, or at least pointing them in the right direction, will do more good for someone in-game than any lawful wing likely could.
For the good guys to help you, you must first learn to help yourself. What I’m saying is, you need to be able to stay alive long enough for them to reach your wake, or escape. Otherwise, they’re just going to be dropping on your wreckage and a hostile ship that’s already on its way out.
Intercepting bad guys before they pull someone is the most effective method they have, but sometimes they slip through the cracks. When that happens, you need to be prepared.
Edit to add: You can make money much faster in traditional ways instead of slowly grinding up a bounty with an alt account and collecting it.
That’s a silly, ineffective way of getting rich.
Remove the 2 million cap already so hunting players is worth the risk.
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The only problem is that you missed a perfectly good opportunity to use "Gank Goats" to keep theme...
Fuel rats do tend to give folks information on how to use fuel scoops/KGBFOAM/etc. Perhaps if more experienced players were interested, they could provide a "Got Ganked? Git gud" hotline in a similar way to assist players after the fact? But as you say, there are already resources out there
Everything I’ve managed to learn over the years was either by hands-on experience, or simply by asking questions. Chances are, if you reach out to the guy who just blew you up, they will have advice to share
By this point in the game, virtually every possible combination of well, anything has been tested. Weapons, defenses, ships, etc. For anyone looking to give gitting gud an honest attempt, you should look into the Galactic Combat Initiative. Lotta folks there are known to gank from time to time, but they know their stuff. They may be blunt— if your ship or strategy is awful, they will certainly let you know— but they have good intentions.
Alternatively, our dear friend @Sir Ganksalot runs a server called the Gank Evasion Academy. I don’t have a link, but it’s geared more toward general survival in open play instead of flat-out PvP.
Might seem strange that the very people who gank would like to show people how to avoid being ganked, but at the end of the day, a stronger, more informed playerbase is good for us all.
By this point in the game, virtually every possible combination of well, anything has been tested. Weapons, defenses, ships, etc. For anyone looking to give gitting gud an honest attempt, you should look into the Galactic Combat Initiative. Lotta folks there are known to gank from time to time, but they know their stuff. They may be blunt— if your ship or strategy is awful, they will certainly let you know— but they have good intentions.
Alternatively, our dear friend @Sir Ganksalot runs a server called the Gank Evasion Academy. I don’t have a link, but it’s geared more toward general survival in open play instead of flat-out PvP.
Might seem strange that the very people who gank would like to show people how to avoid being ganked, but at the end of the day, a stronger, more informed playerbase is good for us all.
The only reason you notice this is that NPC pirates are not doing their job. I can spend the whole evening hauling elite wing missions in a paper T9 and not be much more than inconvenienced by the stream of "deadly" anacondas bearing down on me.
It's odd that in this supposed cutthroat galaxy, I can fly whatever I like while pirates starve (and who could have kitted their ship out for trading and got on with feeding their families, instead of giving me content).
Someone will say something about skill requirements needing to satisfy the lowest common denominator of skill, "skill gating" or something - but I'm talking about 50mil elite wing missions that I chose (not forced) to do and can complete alone in minutes. That should mean something in terms of the difficulties I face. You know, make me fit a proper shield and reinforcements and carry 650 instead of 750 tons, or get an escort, because it's possible I fail the interdiction (currently it's my choice if I fail).
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the free money train at this point, but it does seem wrong.
That may be it- NPC pirates ignore me after scanning my cargo-free exploration ship, so perhaps it isn't fair to say that trading shouldn't be affected by NPC pirates, or even that exploration shouldn't be affected by thargoids (Or other threats in the unknown).
My point is that NPC pirates should be forcing loadout decisions (as long as they're not game-breaking), not just players (be they gankers, or players that have a legitimate interest in threatening/attacking you). Equipping a ship to survive attack shouldn't feel like an imposition, but just "common sense in a galaxy like this".