Powerplay Player groups are the worst thing to come to Powerplay

[Rubbernuke]

Remember, in the end it's a game

A game I love, however it needs a great deal of work.

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I'm so looking forward to Code getting their NPC minor faction. It'll be interesting to see how long they hold onto it

I guess they'll break their word and start doing pve or they won't hold onto it for very long as I doubt I'm the only one who's going to target code NPCs as soon as they're available to shoot at.

Personally, I'm loving the whole "give player groups a minor faction" thing. It's expanding the game in, for me, the same way PP did. I don't play it but it creates news and drama behind the scenes that makes the ED world feel more "real".

As long as powers can strike back and eliminate them.

Right now a power can survive against the combined might of the Empire, or be as diplomatic as possible, but be brought to collapse by a handful of single systems.

 

[Asphine Nytrix]

I think playergroups are nice. Recently I jumped into a system where I wanted to refuel. And there was a CMD who wrote very nicely like NPC.... Welcome to our system, enjoy you stay but we will keep an eye on you. It was because the system belonged to a different faction and he was on guard duty I guess. It was very refreshing and really cool to see this.

I say more playergroups and if some become a pain in the ass just gang up on them destroy their ships and system and drive them away!!!!

 

[Rubbernuke]

I think playergroups are nice. Recently I jumped into a system where I wanted to refuel. And there was a CMD who wrote very nicely like NPC.... Welcome to our system, enjoy you stay but we will keep an eye on you. It was because the system belonged to a different faction and he was on guard duty I guess. It was very refreshing and really cool to see this.

I say more playergroups and if some become a pain in the ass just gang up on them destroy their ships and system and drive them away!!!!

I agree it adds variety. But again, it relies on numbers. ALD and Hudson could fart and they would die instantly. Small powers have the worst of both worlds- and when things come down to single expansions it is one trudge too far when its so weighted against you.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Neither of you understand the dynamics of the situation.

In Power play, right now all the Powers are fighting to get the best systems as we all have reached the size where overheads mean only the best will do. Fighting between powers is fine, as using the tools you can see who is going where, and you can use the blunt tools to at least mitigate the problem.

Player groups who claim systems (registed player groups) can dictate what they like as they are almost impossible to displace. They can focus on a.single system, while the power has to do prep, expansion, fortification, patrol, making money, system flipping, having fun spanning anywhere between twenty to sixty systems. For small powers this just saps enthusiasm, as quite often you fight hard to get a system from a mammoth power, only to be told by an unknown group that it's off limits, wasting two weeks of work endangering your power.

I still don't get the problem. A non-pp group lives in a system a pp power has claimed. What's the matter? The non-pp group can ofcourse undermine this system if they are pledged to various other pp powers (which is secondary). If 15 players want a system, most likely one has to bring up atleast an equal force to dominate. Now it is a question of of price and reward.

 

[fergal]

Utopia has had three registered player groups do this to us, almost one after the other. I have nothing against the players, it's just the setup.

How do these registered player groups attack you?
Are they temporarily pledging to another Power then opposing your expansions?

Or are you talking about some up coming mechanic where registered player groups will be able to undermine or oppose Powers without being pledged to one?

I thought there was a stickied post (that I haven't bothered reading) about all this, but I can't find it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I still don't get the problem. A non-pp group lives in a system a pp power has claimed. What's the matter? The non-pp group can ofcourse undermine this system if they are pledged to various other pp powers (which is secondary). If 15 players want a system, most likely one has to bring up atleast an equal force to dominate. Now it is a question of of price and reward.

The problem lies in that these groups are invisible until you step on them. If we had known where these groups were, we would never have gone there, wasted hundreds of millions of credits in prep and hundreds of hours in time. My power, Utopia, has 2% of the players of PP, and problems of scale like this where we can't fight back really push things to the limit. We have to plan these things out very carefully, and then out of knowhere group x suddenly drops 100% opposition with no warning.

For small powers its just another load to carry, as more invisible groups pop up claiming everything, and in the process just expect powers to understand. The biggest sticking point is one of neutrality, wanting each system 'virgin', which is impossible unless you are out of the core systems. All of our oppositon wanted this, which puts a great strain on a power that has to find diplomatic solutions.

How do these registered player groups attack you?
Are they temporarily pledging to another Power then opposing your expansions?

Or are you talking about some up coming mechanic where registered player groups will be able to undermine or oppose Powers without being pledged to one?

I thought there was a stickied post (that I haven't bothered reading) about all this, but I can't find it.

The issue right now is they don't have to attack us, just exist. They oppose us but we cannot fight back by destroying their systems as they have none- its like fighting a ghost. We cannot really negotiate as they can threaten us and our only option is to win, which is difficult without numbers. With fortification it comes down to money and time, but expansion is brute force and what can a small power do?

 

[Andromalius]

if you can't handle that people are working together in a multiplayer game then you should not be playing multiplayer games.
deal it whit

Elite isn't a multiplayer game. There is a solo mode where I gather most people are actually playing.
This the forced grouping issue again, which is weid since elite is one pilot and his ship, has been since its first opus and was advertised as such.
I also quoàted the "deal with it" to show why people don't actually like grouping in online games: because that enforces the presence of undesirable people on you and removes an element of choice from the game.

 

[Araviel]

Elite isn't a multiplayer game. There is a solo mode where I gather most people are actually playing.
This the forced grouping issue again, which is weid since elite is one pilot and his ship, has been since its first opus and was advertised as such.
I also quoàted the "deal with it" to show why people don't actually like grouping in online games: because that enforces the presence of undesirable people on you and removes an element of choice from the game.

I am sorry but Powerplay is a multiplayer game no matter if you play in solo or not, other players will be involved in it.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Look, someone SAYING its their system doesn't makes it their system. The system belongs to whoevers subfaction owns it.

it is actualyl, very much like in reallife. small groups don't have much power but may be able to hold a small system due to focussing on it. largeer groups ca spread out.

However, what I don't get is why smaller groups seek our conflict with bigger,s because the big ones could if they want just rub over them. Which they should probably do to make the smaller ones shut up.

If i had a small one I woudl go somewhere at a uninhabitaed peaceful part in the universe.
Bt I guess some of the smaller ones causing those troubles just try to be "rebels"

 

[Vasious]

If i had a small one I woudl go somewhere at a uninhabitaed peaceful part in the universe.

Makes docking quite hard

 

[Rubbernuke]

if you can't handle that people are working together in a multiplayer game then you should not be playing multiplayer games.
deal it whit and gather together your own group and kick them out if you don't like their presence there, if you can't do that then you need to accept that they played the game better than you.

(and sorry if i sound blunt, but i don't think i can say it in any better way)

The problem is a) all of the player groups encountered have been invisible and only contacted us after we 'trespass' b) smaller powers do not have the manpower to fight in this manner, because PP is set up in such a way attacking is always brute force. You have a situation where Powers play by one set of rules, and the group another.

I will look for what is coming in CQC 1.4, maybe it will have improvements that allow for these situations. What is needed is more tools for Powers to fight back in ways that do not boil down to who is the biggest.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Well, what would help the PP is an indicator shwoing which subfactions are playermade and which are not.

Makes docking quite hard

just player uninhabitat. also, why docking a fuelscoop is all you need to happily live in space

The problem is a) all of the player groups encountered have been invisible and only contacted us after we 'trespass' b) smaller powers do not have the manpower to fight in this manner, because PP is set up in such a way attacking is always brute force. You have a situation where Powers play by one set of rules, and the group another.

I will look for what is coming in CQC 1.4, maybe it will have improvements that allow for these situations. What is needed is more tools for Powers to fight back in ways that do not boil down to who is the biggest.

but thats how any RVR always will work: manpower. Thats not wrong at all.

What however small PP factions need is an "exiling" chance. so that once a small faction is overrun can exile itself to another system and start fresh in better location suited for their size.

 

[Vasious]

Well, what would help the PP is an indicator shwoing which subfactions are playermade and which are not.
.

So far it seems the systems that will have a Player Sponsored Minor Faction will have an entry in the system description

 

[Rubbernuke]

What however small PP factions need is an "exiling" chance. so that once a small faction is overrun can exile itself to another system and start fresh in better location suited for their size.

No, what is needed is missions, or some other mechanic where we can fight back. We are not overrun, we are doing as well as we can given our position, its just the mechanics of trying to find, dislodge or fight player groups does not exist. So, if we want to expand to a system where a group is, it is always settled by force. Why not have missions too? Or attacking trade in the system? Or flooding the black market and causing social unrest, causing collapse from within?

 

[Vasious]

How do these registered player groups attack you?
Are they temporarily pledging to another Power then opposing your expansions?

Or are you talking about some up coming mechanic where registered player groups will be able to undermine or oppose Powers without being pledged to one?

I thought there was a stickied post (that I haven't bothered reading) about all this, but I can't find it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169489

This has the Freedom Fighters discussion, however as always "nothing in this thread is guaranteed or promised."

So besides pledging to a different power just to keep you out Minor Factions, regalrdsss of if player or not, have no confirmed means to do so

 

[Araviel]

The problem is a) all of the player groups encountered have been invisible and only contacted us after we 'trespass' b) smaller powers do not have the manpower to fight in this manner, because PP is set up in such a way attacking is always brute force. You have a situation where Powers play by one set of rules, and the group another.

I will look for what is coming in CQC 1.4, maybe it will have improvements that allow for these situations. What is needed is more tools for Powers to fight back in ways that do not boil down to who is the biggest.

hm really don't understand why you lack the manpower?
don't you have any other player group in Utopia that can go and fight them in the same manner?

i think its important that we maintain the natural order, it may be rough, but the natural order is also one of the most fair.
the big should trump the small, the strong should eat the weak, and the many should rule the few.
it does worry me what would happen if we suddenly would break away from that order.

but you do make it sound like its already broken, i just have trouble seeing it. so is it?

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

No, what is needed is missions, or some other mechanic where we can fight back. We are not overrun, we are doing as well as we can given our position, its just the mechanics of trying to find, dislodge or fight player groups does not exist. So, if we want to expand to a system where a group is, it is always settled by force. Why not have missions too? Or attacking trade in the system? Or flooding the black market and causing social unrest, causing collapse from within?

It would be interetsing if said playergroups could set up specific missions that everyone passingby can accept like it is for NPC groups.
But the game also lacks some real economy. One wher eimporting and exporting helps to influence power and possibilities a group has. That way smaller groups constantly caring about their system can establish something solid, while bigger groups would have to do this for multiple systems when they expand making this harder and harder when their systems grow bigger than their number can handle.

 

[Rubbernuke]

hm really don't understand why you lack the manpower?
don't you have any other player group in Utopia that can go and fight them in the same manner?

i think its important that we maintain the natural order, it may be rough, but the natural order is also one of the most fair.
the big should trump the small, the strong should eat the weak, and the many should rule the few.
it does worry me what would happen if we suddenly would break away from that order.

but you do make it sound like its already broken, i just have trouble seeing it. so is it?

A quick example:

I logged on a day after Cycle 18 started. One AD expansion was at 50% already, and high values for the rest. Fortification well underway, with players to spare. Easy street.

In Utopia, with 2% of those playing, Utopian expansions were at 2% and 0%. Unlike all other Powers, we are it. No other player groups, nothing. We live or die with what we have to play with.

The problem is that expansions are forced on us, so we have to go somewhere. Unfortunately these are where the invisible groups are. By your own post ''the big should trump the small, the strong should eat the weak, and the many should rule the few'' should apply to systems too, where its far too easy to compete with a power many more times as big.

The reason why I ranted a bit on this post is how easy it is to have weeks of work ruined by a silent group. Utopia spent about 240,000,000 in prep to avoid a system Archon was interested in, because we have a good working relationship. This had the knock on effect of us not being able to fortify 5 extra systems, so this turn we have little CC to play with. Our high CC expansion this turn has been blocked, so our CC levels will get worse next turn in 20. Its all ripples that are hard to navigate when you are small. I want to have meaningful RP too, but the underlying mechanics make it very hard to compete when its so easy for a few players to just focus on one task and make weeks of work pointless.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

I lerned tha many dedictaed gamers are willing to do, "strange things". I would not wonder if some extreme players have like 3 accounts of ships sitting with like 200 cargo in the stations just to macro take those fortification letters every 30minutes and then deliver them all once a day or twice.

I have seen too many weird things done by games to believe in this not happening.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I lerned tha many dedictaed gamers are willing to do, "strange things". I would not wonder if some extreme players have like 3 accounts of ships sitting with like 200 cargo in the stations just to macro take those fortification letters every 30minutes and then deliver them all once a day or twice.

I have seen too many weird things done by games to believe in this not happening.

Then you have never gazed at the quite fantastic numbers ALD and Hudson produce because they have nearly all the players. ALD for example commands.50% of the PP base. She can steamroller all day long as that power has everything, no funny business needed. Expansions can roll on for 1000+% on a normal cycle.