please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Joe Spivey]

The very fact that people are using the term "PKer" scares me. I didnt realise ED was going to be so carebeary. I like PVE as much as anyone, but realise my ship is at risk whenever I undock in it. Thats why I fit guns and stuff.

Just a reminder then. This quote from DB:

"It is important that players enjoy the experience. We are writing this game for ourselves, and the fun of the game is the most important thing. Player-player encounters should be interesting, and part of this is the ability to hide - whether from other players or AIs. Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."

 

[lardarz]

And doesn't the mugger have a nagging doubt that that the 'muggee' might pick up a brick and make his brains come out of his ear ?

Well thats pretty much the point. If you get shot at, shoot back. There should be risk on both sides.

 

[eeps]

but griefers/pvpers purposely make a point of picking weak or unarmed targets

shooting back is not always an option.

a pirate or griefer will always engage in a situation where he has the upper hand, anything else would be fair, which is by default not the modus operandi of this type of player.

i've been trying my best not to use the real life correlation of 'bully', its such a perfect fit but ive resisted the correlation until now .. so ..

a bully will always choose a weak target for the same reason, they dont wanna get shown up and have their upper hand taken away. and likewise the victim of the bully cant just 'harden up' and 'shoot back', by their very definition they are weaker than the bully, so its just not possible. So like in real life, best thing to do with bullies is lock them all in a room together and let them take each other out until there is no one left = 'online play'

problem solved

 

[lardarz]

but griefers/pvpers purposely make a point of picking weak or unarmed targets

They arent the same thing. What you've described in that post isn't a PVPer, its a "<swearing removed>".

 

[Meraco]

Just a reminder then. This quote from DB:

"It is important that players enjoy the experience. We are writing this game for ourselves, and the fun of the game is the most important thing. Player-player encounters should be interesting, and part of this is the ability to hide - whether from other players or AIs. Most of the ships you encounter will be AIs - and in many cases you will kill them - which is why we want the majority to be AIs. Generally speaking we expect players, even beginners, to be more of a challenge than an AI ship, and something that players will tend not to attack, but more cooperate with, and we are designing the bounty system (and others) to discourage PvP and encourage player cooperation."

Exactly.. and if that was the atmosphere in open play.. I would partake..
But when you have:

don't worry I will kill an extra few tonight to make up for the loss, and unlike him or her i'll show no discretion about who* or what.

&

i'll just have to imagine that i'm causing that kinda damage when i kill people.

I am content with solitude as I marvel at the wondrous vision that is the Milkyway.

 

[obliterator]

You're asking the people happy with pirates but not keen on being shot up for someone's kicks to do just that. Sure, we need improved mechanisms, no argument there, but it's something everyone should be asking for.

How I am asking those players to accommodate anyone? I said that it's not up to pvp players to accomodate pve players. Doesn't have anything to do with pve players accommodating anyone.

 

[Beld]

in a galaxy with 400 billion starts your chances of running into me are incredibly low, probably lower than the chance of being hit by a car in the next year, gunna hide out in the closet for the next year?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Spot on, if it isnt already.

The distribution of players across open and group/solo is a well kept secret ..

Soon enough the community will work it out, 'open play' is an agreement to become involved in pvp at your own peril.
Solo/group mode is where all the other types of playstyle will end up.

Grats to Mobius btw, his group is growing at a mighty rate and will eventually (imho) contain more players online at any moment than the entire 'open play' group.

Everytime i see this, i roll my eyes so hard I'm scared they'll fall out. This statement vastly overestimates 2 things. 1. The amount of pvpers/pirates/bullies/whatever you want to call them, that they can throw off the whole balance of the game is laughable. 2. The cowardliness of the avg player, idk about you but my first reaction when getting killed in a multiplayer game isn't to run to single player forever, that's not how most reasonable people react. Worst case some new players dip into solo mode for a few days and come back with a better understanding of the game.

What people fail to realize is game forums in general only make up a small minority of players. a few dozen or so people crying about pvp isn't anywhere near the experience of the avg player.

 

[antonygoldrick]

I got indicted last night by some idiot in a eagle. I'm quiet good at avoiding them bit this time I submitted. He came at me all lasers blazing. But souped up shields on my Cobra and some gimbled weapons soon taught him a lesson. He lasted about 30 seconds... I smiled. Whipped the eagle off my guns and carried on. It felt very pleasant

 

[Lanatir]

Cant believe this is still going on. you will never get on even grounds. pvp players dont understand pve players and vice versa. Completely different mindset. The pvp players dont understand how the so called 'Carebears' can not enjoy fighting other players, the PVE players dont understand how one can get enjoyment out of it. No discussion whatsoever will change that. Its like the discussion between star trek and star wars fans what is better (star trek), there is just no meeting point.
To the PVP players: For a true PVE player it is already griefing when you kill him ONCE without his consent. Period.
To the PVE players: For the PVP player it is some form of competition. They dont see the person behind the ship, and they cant adapt to thinking that their actions might actually hurt feelings cause it doesnt work that way for them.

So you can argue back and forth all the way you want, the problem is you dont even speak the same language cause both parties use completely different definitions for their words and actions.

Try to get along, especially on christmas.

Trust me. I'm the Doctor.


P.S.: Oh, and Avariel: You give me negative rep for THIS post? Seriously? What are you even doing here, didnt you say you wanted to uninstall the game? Why are you still posting? Is this some form of Forum Crusade?

 

[Bnethor]

It's nothing personal. If I see bounty on you, you're a flying bag of cash.

Practice what you preach then

I think you let a wanted cobra ravage your fellow german viper at a certain nav beacon the other day without lifting a finger..

 

[Araviel]

To the PVE players: For the PVP player it is some form of competition. They dont see the person behind the ship, and they cant adapt to thinking that their actions might actually hurt feelings cause it doesnt work that way for them.

that is basically the definition of a sociopath, thanks for that diagnose Doctor.

P.S.: Oh, and Avariel: You give me negative rep for THIS post? Seriously? What are you even doing here, didnt you say you wanted to uninstall the game? Why are you still posting? Is this some form of Forum Crusade?

yes i deleted the game, but i can't figure out how to unregister from the forum, so i might aswell post a bit more out of spite.

 

[Cell]

I suck at this game, I love it but I suck. Hoping to get better in solo so I can survive in open. I know better then to stick my head out of the safety of solo until I understand this game. Better to call myself a noob then to call a more skilled player a griefer on an open server.

 

[Glenn Coco]

that is basically the definition of a sociopath, thanks for that diagnose Doctor.

...if the shoe fits

 

[Thani]

Cant believe this is still going on. you will never get on even grounds. pvp players dont understand pve players and vice versa. Completely different mindset. The pvp players dont understand how the so called 'Carebears' can not enjoy fighting other players, the PVE players dont understand how one can get enjoyment out of it. No discussion whatsoever will change that. Its like the discussion between star trek and star wars fans what is better (star trek), there is just no meeting point.
To the PVP players: For a true PVE player it is already griefing when you kill him ONCE without his consent. Period.
To the PVE players: For the PVP player it is some form of competition. They dont see the person behind the ship, and they cant adapt to thinking that their actions might actually hurt feelings cause it doesnt work that way for them.

So you can argue back and forth all the way you want, the problem is you dont even speak the same language cause both parties use completely different definitions for their words and actions.

Try to get along, especially on christmas.

Trust me. I'm the Doctor.


P.S.: Oh, and Avariel: You give me negative rep for THIS post? Seriously? What are you even doing here, didnt you say you wanted to uninstall the game? Why are you still posting? Is this some form of Forum Crusade?

That's why there are 2 playgrounds, Open Play for people who eventually wants to take part in PvP interaction and solo/group play for people who only want cooperation or solo play.
Playing to open and whining cause you encounter other people is kind of meh...
"*PvE Player cliking on Open play* - I want to play with people... but I don't want them to play with me..."

 

[zorianarki]

that is basically the definition of a sociopath, thanks for that diagnose Doctor.

That is so wrong on so many levels I hardly know where to begin. Claiming that someone playing a game, in which part of the game mechanics and intended gameplay is player-vs-planer combat, is a sociopath because they play the game in a way that involves pvp, and because they don't do a deeply empathic analysis of every other player they interact with, is just silly.

Do traders agonize deeply for hours over the possibility that they might ruin someone elses traderoute when they trade, or are they also sociopaths?

Do people running missions for one faction agonize deeply over that they might be ruining another players dreams of watching the other faction win, or are they also sociopaths?

Do you, araviel, agonize over the fact that you calling people sociopaths might actually cause real psychological harm to some super insecure person sitting on the other end of the internet with a massive amount of self-doubt and insecurity who was just having fun shooting internet spaceships?

No, probably not, and that doesn't make any of those people, nor you, a sociopath.

On a side-note if you want to actually do really awsum intarnetz psychologi you might to start using either the term antisocial personality disorder or psycopath since sociopath isn't really a diagnosis of any kind, or clearly defined. Then you'd probably have to use either the DSM-IV-TR or the ICD-10 to diagnose someone, the problem is that just reading the list doesn't qualify you to do that since your interpretation of what say "impulsivity or failure to plan ahead" is probably very different from what a psychiatrist's. colloquially that sentence could describe approximately everyone who isn't suffering from OCD or an eating disorder, at some point in their life, only that isn't really how you use it in a diagnosis so...

perhaps you should just stop calling people sociopaths and using it as a way of dismissing other people's opinion, and instead start explaining how and why you disagree with people and arguing the point, instead of attacking the person, which is a really awful debate tactic.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

...if the shoe fits

And people using proverbs as arguments should not be allowed to partake in debates.

 

[Crimson Fury]

...if the shoe fits

I play FPS all the time, and shoot other players in the head. That doesn't mean I want to go around shoot, hack and slash actual people. I smuggle drugs while playing Grand Theft Auto, but I certainly don't have anything to do with illegal drug trade in real life. I extort miners in EVE Online all the time, although you won't see me mugging people on the street ever.People play video games partly to break out of their own character. Whenever you have interaction with other players, the experience is not guaranteed to be pleasant.

 

[Cell]

pvp players dont understand pve players and vice versa. Completely different mindset. The pvp players dont understand how the so called 'Carebears' can not enjoy fighting other players, the PVE players dont understand how one can get enjoyment out of it. No discussion whatsoever will change that. Its like the discussion between star trek and star wars fans what is better (star trek), there is just no meeting point.
To the PVP players: For a true PVE player it is already griefing when you kill him ONCE without his consent. Period.
To the PVE players: For the PVP player it is some form of competition. They dont see the person behind the ship, and they cant adapt to thinking that their actions might actually hurt feelings cause it doesn't work that way for them.

Not sure where you got info, most of us understand both "Mindsets". Some people just don't care and love to torment (forum trolls) other players but in an open game like this these people would just be pirates, not griefers. If the PvEers just looked at "grifers" as "PC Pirates" (some of which kill for sport) then they might understand that pirates are just nasty low down scumbags and they need to be hunted and killed with extreme prejudiced. See that is roll playing...dang this is harder than I thought...

 

[TaoZero5]

That's why there are 2 playgrounds, Open Play for people who eventually wants to take part in PvP interaction and solo/group play for people who only want cooperation or solo play.
Playing to open and whining cause you encounter other people is kind of meh...
"*PvE Player cliking on Open play* - I want to play with people... but I don't want them to play with me..."

No - surely you misunderstand. Group play is for PvP. Open play is for everyone.
I play open. If I have no bounty and you shoot me then you are a criminal (the Cmdr) and I will hunt you (the player). If I have a bounty then I am fair game.

P.S. I restarted my game, today. So Tao Zee is running around in a Sidewinder with 4T of Fruit 'n' Veg being not Dangerous at all.

 

[zorianarki]

An entirely different point one could argue in this debate is that as it stands there is really no in game mechanic separating NPC ships from PC ships (no, in this sence the hollow / full triangle doesn't count), hence the game is pretty much priming you to have the same consideration for PC ships as NPC ships. And everyone expects pirates to kill lots of random NPC ships no?