PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

[Hanerib]

I do it solely for modules. Three weeks waiting and then 750 merits. Other than that, currently I don't really see any point to it.

 

[dxm55]

The way I see it, PP is just another grind for some special weapons or modules.
Much like Engineering is just a grind to make ordinary modules.... special.
Ditto CGs.... you get either this special module/weap, or that special module/weap
And yet again, ditto the Guardian thingamabob grind that's on going..... just for you to get special modules/weaps/fighters

You trade, explore, kill, in exchange for Credits you get for selling your goods or data, or collecting your bounties.
And these credits are mainly used to buy ships and stuff for your ships.

Everything tangible in this game is about doing something to bling out your ship.
Operative word here is TANGIBLE.

Because despite what ppl say about exploration and all, this is ultimately still a spaceship trading simulator.

The other aspects of the game, like exploring and appreciating the beauty of a procedurally generated universe?
Those are intangibles.
They are merely the incidental aspects of the game.
They just happened to be there because an environment was needed for you to fly your ships around in.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If Powerplay was "Endgame Content", why does it become available immediately the CMDR has gained a single rank in any of the three paths to Elite?

Powerplay does offer opportunities for consensual PvP - it does not, however, force any player who engages in the feature to engage in PvP. Power vs. Power conflict need not be driven by PvP....

Endgame as in:

You need to have money, big ships well kitted out, know how to fly them, know how PP works, know combat etc. Powerplay was supposed to be the part of the game where you fought for a cause and applied what you knew.

Powerplay does offer opportunities for consensual PvP - it does not, however, force any player who engages in the feature to engage in PvP. Power vs. Power conflict need not be driven by PvP....

In my opinion at least this is where PP has failed- PP has tried to be all things to all players and simply fallen short. FD see that, and want to fix it for the least amount of input.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Not for starter players does not necessarily equate to "endgame" content - there's quite some time between starting and reaching "endgame" (whatever that is defined as).

But looking at the functionality, it's pretty obvious that PowrerPlay not for the beginner. When you looked at what Powerplay consisted of, didn't you think that kind of game play mode is for when you run out of other things to do? That was my impression of what 'Endgame' content is.

A political feature for all players that is bigger in scope than Factions but less than Superpowers.

On the one hand we have Sandro and DBOBE talking of Powerplay as a feature, not for beginners, that offers consensual PvP.

On the other hand we have the implementation, available in all game modes after gaining a single rank.

Both can be perfectly accurate - when one accepts that the timing of a player engaging in Powerplay is up to the player and that engaging in PvP within Powerplay is up to the player.

But it goes back to the main problem that the mode is it's current form is not attracting people to play it because the players in the modes outside of the open have a a lot more power than players who are in open. Heck, in solo/pvt, if they upped the AI and NPC interdictions up a few knotches to be able to take out the bots and the ones that Min/Max their cargo ships, then that would probably be enough to reinvigorate the game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Endgame as in:

You need to have money, big ships well kitted out, know how to fly them, know how PP works, know combat etc. Powerplay was supposed to be the part of the game where you fought for a cause and applied what you knew.

Money is easier than ever to earn.
Several big ships aren't locked behind Superpower rank.
How long does it take to learn how to fly a ship?
Is knowing how Powerplay works a necessity or just desirable (from the perspective of other players)?
Combat or combat avoidance?

Powerplay can be part of the game "where you fought for a cause and applied what you knew" - it just does not require a penchant for PvP or any particular skills.

In my opinion at least this is where PP has failed- PP has tried to be all things to all players and simply fallen short. FD see that, and want to fix it for the least amount of input.

Powerplay follows the philosophy of all game features, i.e. nothing requires hostile PvP. It would seem that there are problems with the implementation that could improve the feature for all players. Fixing Powerplay does not necessarily include gating it to Open.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

The way I see it, PP is just another grind for some special weapons or modules.
Much like Engineering is just a grind to make ordinary modules.... special.
Ditto CGs.... you get either this special module/weap, or that special module/weap
And yet again, ditto the Guardian thingamabob grind that's on going..... just for you to get special modules/weaps/fighters

Actually, I don't think that's supposed to be the thing. The rewards are an incentive for people to join powerplay but it's an attempt to foster a sense of community for players that pledge for the same power. I've seen in amongst the Mahon players, where they're hauling for the prime minister and not bothered about the reward (Mostly because it's a bit rubbish).

 

[Robert Maynard]

But looking at the functionality, it's pretty obvious that PowrerPlay not for the beginner. When you looked at what Powerplay consisted of, didn't you think that kind of game play mode is for when you run out of other things to do? That was my impression of what 'Endgame' content is.

Given that all it takes to get access to each Power's toys is three weeks pledged plus 750 merits, that's hardly challenging for a beginner.

The same can be said for engaging with the BGS, exploring, etc. - each player finds purpose in a particular game feature, or not as the case may be.

But it goes back to the main problem that the mode is it's current form is not attracting people to play it because the players in the modes outside of the open have a a lot more power than players who are in open. Heck, in solo/pvt, if they upped the AI and NPC interdictions up a few knotches to be able to take out the bots and the ones that Min/Max their cargo ships, then that would probably be enough to reinvigorate the game.

Players in Solo and Private Groups have access to the same toolset as players in Open - that players in Open can be impeded by other players is, ultimately, their chosen play-style.

Frontier set the challenge posed by NPCs - for all players in all modes. It has been proposed several times that the challenge posed by NPCs be significantly increased (up to the level of challenge posed by PvP players in some cases) - Frontier haven't acted on that proposal and, given the fallout from the bugged weaponry and enhanced AI in 2.1, it would seem that they are not prepared to make the game unplayable for a significant number of players to satisfy the desires of a subset of the playerbase.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Money is easier than ever to earn.
Several big ships aren't locked behind Superpower rank.
How long does it take to learn how to fly a ship?
Is knowing how Powerplay works a necessity or just desirable (from the perspective of other players)?
Combat or combat avoidance?

When Powerplay was introduced money was not easy to get as it is now (weekly R5 at the time paid an astronomic 50 million)- rank locks were onerous. And you need to know how PP works to actually play it beyond module unlocks.

How long to learn to fly a ship? If you are in combat a fair amount since PP CZs are harsh on beginners who don't know how combat works- and combat avoidance (i.e. Git Gud, which only really applies in Open).

Powerplay can be part of the game "where you fought for a cause and applied what you knew" - it just does not require a penchant for PvP or any particular skills.

However stretching what we have over modes has made it unpopular.

Powerplay follows the philosophy of all game features, i.e. nothing requires hostile PvP. It would seem that there are problems with the implementation that could improve the feature for all players. Fixing Powerplay does not necessarily include gating it to Open.

Unless FD start from scratch thats not possible. The cleanest way is for current haul / shoot as Open, and solo pg for missions and bgs. Your weighted merits idea is good, but that does not solve the underpinning problems.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Given that all it takes to get access to each Power's toys is three weeks pledged plus 750 merits, that's hardly challenging for a beginner.

The same can be said for engaging with the BGS, exploring, etc. - each player finds purpose in a particular game feature, or not as the case may be.

Players in Solo and Private Groups have access to the same toolset as players in Open - that players in Open can be impeded by other players is, ultimately, their chosen play-style.

The rewards are an incentive for people to join powerplay but it's an attempt to foster a sense of community for players that pledge for the same power. I've seen in amongst the Mahon players, where they're hauling for the prime minister and not bothered about the reward (Mostly because it's a bit rubbish).

Frontier set the challenge posed by NPCs - for all players in all modes. It has been proposed several times that the challenge posed by NPCs be significantly increased (up to the level of challenge posed by PvP players in some cases) - Frontier haven't acted on that proposal and, given the fallout from the bugged weaponry and enhanced AI in 2.1, it would seem that they are not prepared to make the game unplayable for a significant number of players to satisfy the desires of a subset of the playerbase.

I was referring to PowerPlay only for the AI increase. Heck, even an increase in solo/pvt interdiction would get rid of the Bots.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Frontier set the challenge posed by NPCs - for all players in all modes. It has been proposed several times that the challenge posed by NPCs be significantly increased (up to the level of challenge posed by PvP players in some cases) - Frontier haven't acted on that proposal and, given the fallout from the bugged weaponry and enhanced AI in 2.1, it would seem that they are not prepared to make the game unplayable for a significant number of players to satisfy the desires of a subset of the playerbase.

Which is illogical nonsense in a mode about conflict and opposition...one mode gives you that, while the other two don't? If NPCs cannot oppose you, what is the point of them?

 

[Robert Maynard]

How long to learn to fly a ship? If you are in combat a fair amount since PP CZs are harsh on beginners who don't know how combat works- and combat avoidance (i.e. Git Gud, which only really applies in Open).

Requiring some combat skill is not limited to engaging in Powerplay combat.

I'd expect that combat avoidance is one of the earliest skills that a player develops.

However stretching what we have over modes has made it unpopular.

Unpopular with those who want it to require PvP. I doubt that the pan-modal implementation is the reason why it is unpopular with those who don't engage in PvP.

Unless FD start from scratch thats not possible. The cleanest way is for current haul / shoot as Open, and solo pg for missions and bgs. Your weighted merits idea is good, but that does not solve the underpinning problems.

Whether the lack of required PvP in the feature is a problem or not remains a matter of opinion.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is illogical nonsense in a mode about conflict and opposition...one mode gives you that, while the other two don't? If NPCs cannot oppose you, what is the point of them?

PvP players only set the difficulty level when players encounter each other in Open - and playing in Open is not a requirement which means that hostile PvP is entirely optional.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The rewards are an incentive for people to join powerplay but it's an attempt to foster a sense of community for players that pledge for the same power. I've seen in amongst the Mahon players, where they're hauling for the prime minister and not bothered about the reward (Mostly because it's a bit rubbish).

The rewards end up being an incentive to engage in Powerplay for three weeks and defect once the shiny is unlocked; rinse; repeat.

I was referring to PowerPlay only for the AI increase. Heck, even an increase in solo/pvt interdiction would get rid of the Bots.

Ah. In which case it could be scaled, in any mode, with respect to the Powerplay rank of the player (and possibly with respect to the capability of the ship the CMDR is flying, to an extent).

 

[Rubbernuke]

Requiring some combat skill is not limited to engaging in Powerplay combat.

But current PP CZs are old school and without the niceties of the new style. When I ran Utopias reddit one of the main questions was 'how do I live beyond one minute?'.

I'd expect that combat avoidance is one of the earliest skills that a player develops.

Unless you fly using no hands, its incredibly hard to lose to an NPC interdiction. Players are another matter- and then you need to be well drilled and not panic, something that takes time and practice.

Unpopular with those who want it to require PvP. I doubt that the pan-modal implementation is the reason why it is unpopular with those who don't engage in PvP.

Really? Have you sen the numbers? PPs current design has failed. FD will not rewrite the NPC behaviors for PP, hence why Open fills in the gaps cheaply.

Whether the lack of required PvP in the feature is a problem or not remains a matter of opinion.

The next time a wing of NPCs disables my drives with ion mines and tears my shields apart with reverb torps I'll let you know. Until then NPCs will be the non-entities that provide no challenge or dynamism in a feature that cries out for them.

 

[Rubbernuke]

PvP players only set the difficulty level when players encounter each other in Open - and playing in Open is not a requirement which means that hostile PvP is entirely optional.

But it has the potential for more difficulty- more weapons, more tactics and better ships. NPCs have none of that. This is why Powerplay has failed, because one mode has no opposition while another has potentially lethal players. Its inconsistent to the point of stupidity. If PP was split with jobs in Open only then at least the potential challenge is fair.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The rewards end up being an incentive to engage in Powerplay for three weeks and defect once the shiny is unlocked; rinse; repeat.

This is true for some powers, LYR and AD primarily. Thats why Sandro stated they would be tech broker unlocks which is a good idea.

Ah. In which case it could be scaled, in any mode, with respect to the Powerplay rank of the player (and possibly with respect to the capability of the ship the CMDR is flying, to an extent).

No- because it can be exploited due to alts (especially on consoles) having low ranks. And since PP activities don't increase rep you can have an inconsistency introduced.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But current PP CZs are old school and without the niceties of the new style. When I ran Utopias reddit one of the main questions was 'how do I live beyond one minute?'.

Players managed with old-style CZs in all aspects of the game prior to the introduction of the new ones.

Unless you fly using no hands, its incredibly hard to lose to an NPC interdiction. Players are another matter- and then you need to be well drilled and not panic, something that takes time and practice.

Which comes back to the optional nature of hostile PvP and that Frontier set the difficulty level of NPCs for all players, not just those who prefer PvP.

Really? Have you sen the numbers? PPs current design has failed. FD will not rewrite the NPC behaviors for PP, hence why Open fills in the gaps cheaply.

One does not need numbers to suggest that PvP being optional is unlikely to be a reason for players who don't engage in PvP to dislike a game feature. Whether Open only would be "cheap" in all aspects remains an unknown - it might be cheap in terms of development time but costly in terms of consequences among the player-base.

The next time a wing of NPCs disables my drives with ion mines and tears my shields apart with reverb torps I'll let you know. Until then NPCs will be the non-entities that provide no challenge or dynamism in a feature that cries out for them.

Less than half of base game copies sold have a corresponding copy of Horizons - so it's unlikely, in my opinion, that Frontier will discourage those who only own the base game from playing by increasing the scope of Engineered modifications applied to NPC ships. Frontier also know how much Engineering has been done by players who do own Horizons - and I expect that that also figures in their decision making regarding NPC difficulty.

 

[Hanerib]

But current PP CZs are old school and without the niceties of the new style.

I love those old conflict zones, when I need my 750 merits for new lazers and stuff I always visit those. NPC's there actually explode before having their thrusters broken and silently floating away.

hence why Open fills in the gaps cheaply.

I think it might be the opposite.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is true for some powers, LYR and AD primarily. Thats why Sandro stated they would be tech broker unlocks which is a good idea.

It's probably why those modules are retained after defection - if they were lost then players might gravitate to the Power(s) with the "must have" module to the detriment of the rest.

No- because it can be exploited due to alts (especially on consoles) having low ranks. And since PP activities don't increase rep you can have an inconsistency introduced.

Possibly. However players in highly Engineered ships complain of no credible NPC threat.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Players managed with old-style CZs in all aspects of the game prior to the introduction of the new ones.

While on the Reddit the new players always struggled while they learnt.

Which comes back to the optional nature of hostile PvP and that Frontier set the difficulty level of NPCs for all players, not just those who prefer PvP.

But if no-one is opposing you at all, NPC or player, then PP becomes a blind grind race.

One does not need numbers to suggest that PvP being optional is unlikely to be a reason for players who don't engage in PvP to dislike a game feature.

Its because PP is flat and lifeless, and that NPCs are flat and lifeless stuck in disconnected and abstracted layers. Players want surprise and dynamism.

Less than half of base game copies sold have a corresponding copy of Horizons - so it's unlikely, in my opinion, that Frontier will discourage those who only own the base game from playing by increasing the scope of Engineered modifications applied to NPC ships. Frontier also know how much Engineering has been done by players who do own Horizons - and I expect that that also figures in their decision making regarding NPC difficulty.

Which just condemns PP even more. They provide no opposition, and are simply toothless farm animals that occasionally shout at you- so it just becomes who can grind the most rather than actually push back intelligently.