Please Save The Open Play - Doing Pirating Right and Killing Players For No Reason

[Caboose187]

Honestly unless your are in a warzone (this area should be for PvP) there should be hefty penalties for killing a fellow player. We are all part of the pilot's federation, we should not be killing fellow members!
There should be a permanent high bounty removable only by death for killing a clean player.
There should be a way for pirates to get cargo with out killing. Perhaps the limpet should go through the shields when they are 50% or lower and be a bit easier to target the cargo hatch.

We're not all part of the pilots federation. I'm turning into smuggling to make my money now and want nothing to do with the space government.

 

[Tigga]

A possible carrot: remove insurance cost from the player whose ship gets demolished by another player.

Nope. If people don't fear dying, then piracy doesn't work nearly so well.

If you're going to do a carrot, it has to not be a stick for another group of players.

 

[crushdepth]

I agree, it has to be a carrot, not a stick

A smaller stick will do. The thing driving people to closed play is the cost of ship loss. Losing your ship once per day is a significant setback and limits the number of PVP interactions you can get involved in (or put up with).

 

[anikaiful]

Nope. If people don't fear dying, then piracy doesn't work nearly so well.

Hmm... true.

 

[RedWizzard]

I really think that we have an issue because in my opinion more and more commanders are going solo or pve every day (I hope that I am wrong about this).

Do you have any evidence that this is actually happening? Because the whole discussion is pointless if it isn't. I think you need to definitively establish there is a problem before you start working on a solution. A gut feeling that there might be a problem is not sufficient IMO.

 

[Underhook]

OP, congratulations on a well set out post.

I am still playing solo until I get my new joystick. but
I purchased this game so I could destroy other human players ships. Especially other fighters but any ship will do. I'm not to bothered if it has cargo or not. Thats what is fun for me. The only ED activity I enjoy is combat.
So..... KILLING PLAYERS FOR NO REASON is a problem you imagine because you have not been able to put yourself in the shoes of the other player. ie.. they are not killing you for no reason, they are killing you because they enjoy it, its fun.

Making rules for pirates seems pretty funny to me. Err... they are pirates because they dont follow the rules or laws

I think that punishing players for doing what they enjoy is not the right way to go. Maybe we could reward players for helping you to solve your problem instead.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
Bounties can not be paid off. Pirates should have very, very large bounties on their heads. This will reward bounty hunters and they will take care of your problem whilst providing more exciting combat for those who enjoy it. Pretty much what you said.

The 20% punishment is I think a bad idea. To test it try reversing the idea. Trading is too profitable so we should fine all traders 20% of their income and distribute it among non trading players. Does it make you feel good. Probably not.

 

[Quineloe]

Nope. If people don't fear dying, then piracy doesn't work nearly so well.

If you're going to do a carrot, it has to not be a stick for another group of players.

Sticks for everyone has never worked anywhere.

And yes, the rebuy cost of a-geared combat ships is just too prohibitive to PVP until death

 

[Continium]

A reward for participating in open play is most likely the best idea to increase numbers. There are some who simply have NO interest in online play, (for whatever reasons) whilst others may be sitting on the fence (are a bit nervous about open play but can be nudged with a reward)

This would have no detrimental affect upon solo players (as far as I can see) especially those who have no interest in interacting with others via solo play.

Personally there is no amount of money that would get me to play in open mode - not because I am particualy scared, but because my time is limited and I have no interest in dealing with others when I play the game (even if it means waiting for a dock to be cleared.

But a reward would certainly encourage those who are sitting on the fence.

 

[Underhook]

A smaller stick will do. The thing driving people to closed play is the cost of ship loss. Losing your ship once per day is a significant setback and limits the number of PVP interactions you can get involved in (or put up with).

I agree, ship loss and stock loss.
but.... its a game
punishing people for doing what they enjoy stops it from being a game.
Just make it so bounties cant be paid off and let the bounty hunters take care of them.

 

[Slick500]

Killing for no good reason

Hey, it happened to me, I am just trying to get enough credits to build something better and this guy in a viper interdicts me and blows me into space dust, no hello no demands just opened fired with full turrets, gimbals and other weapons, I was flying in my lowly sidewinder.

 

[Underhook]

A reward for participating in open play is most likely the best idea to increase numbers. There are some who simply have NO interest in online play, (for whatever reasons) whilst others may be sitting on the fence (are a bit nervous about open play but can be nudged with a reward)

This would have no detrimental affect upon solo players (as far as I can see) especially those who have no interest in interacting with others via solo play.

Personally there is no amount of money that would get me to play in open mode - not because I am particualy scared, but because my time is limited and I have no interest in dealing with others when I play the game (even if it means waiting for a dock to be cleared.

But a reward would certainly encourage those who are sitting on the fence.

Yes, yes. We must move away from the PUNISH EVERYBODY WHO DOES NOT PLAY THE WAY I WANT mentality.

Simply reward people for doing what you do like. Why, because its a game.

I suggested in another post that to encourage open play we could double all income. commodities = double, black market = double bounties = double etc.
Also free cargo insurance up to 80%

Only available to open players and maybe you have to lock in for a month at a time

 

[Remiel]

I know, I know. We have enough threads about open vs. solo but I just have to share my thoughts on this issue. I really think that we have an issue because in my opinion more and more commanders are going solo or pve every day (I hope that I am wrong about this).

PROBLEM No.1 - DOING PIRATING RIGHT.
1. The victims.
If they are interdicted by a human player there are probability that the player is not interested in their cargo, just want to blow them up for fun. Even if it is a pirate who wants some cargo, and you drop some, there is a chance you will be killed anyway. What the victim could lose? He could lose everything, his ship and his cargo. There are not that kind of NPC behavior in the game (thank you FD for this). So that is why most of the (clever) traders and Non-A-Class-Warrior-Ship-Owner commanders are going solo. If they want some “thrill” of pvp, they would jump in their viper/cobra and look for some fight. There is no thrill in fight between harmless loaded with gold hauler trader vs. military grade viper pirate.

2. The pirates.
The clever ones will always pick up weaker than them. What they could lose? They could get some (calculated) bounty and almost no other risk.

THE CONSEQUENCE.
We got pirating broken. The traders are going solo for less risk, and the pirates don’t have rich ‘victims’. All they could get are no experienced ones who go to solo after the first attack on them.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
If we want the traders back in open we should deal with ‘unethical’ pirates.
So maybe there should be a code for “doing pirating right”. I would try to explain my idea thru 3 simple scenarios?
The pre-requirements for this solution is that the victims has some cargo onboard.

Scenario a)
1. The pirate communicate to the victim and ask for cargo
2. The victim don’t want to give cargo
3. They have a fight
4. The consequences for both stays as they are now.

Scenario b)
1. The pirate communicate to the victim and ask for cargo
2. The victim drop the cargo of the quantity the attacker could take or it is at least 1/3 of the victims cargo value.
3. Both goes their ways, no consequences to the pirate.

Scenario c)
1. The pirate communicate to the victim and ask for cargo
2. The victim drop the cargo of the quantity the attacker could take or it is at least 1/3 of the victims cargo value.
3. The attacker still kills the victim.
4. The consequences for the attacker are huge. 10x current bounty and if the authorities got him, he should additionally pay to the victim all the damage he has done, (plus 20%?).




PROBLEM No.2 - KILLING PLAYERS FOR NO REASON.

I will share what I had experienced a week ago.
I wanted to test some weapon load outs, so I went to the anarchy nav point. There was another human player doing some bounty hunting. After some time the wanted npc anaconda came and we both get on her. Unfortunately I had the final shot. Even that I am pretty sure I was the first to engage, the another player was not happy that I got the prize. He immediately, without warning started shooting at me. I instantly knew that my current weapons are no match to his. I run away, he followed me and tried to interdict me, but he did not succeed on that. I came back to the nav point and had few npcs down, but obviously he was on to me so he keep going on me over and over. I was not in the mood for pvp, (I still wish I have had my usual weapons onboard). After a 3 or 4 times I got bored and went to solo.
It is important that I had no bounty on me and also no cargo at all. He just wanted to kill me for ‘stilling his kill’. And he was very persistent to do that.
I could jump to another system or I could block him. But it was most convenient at that time just to switch to solo.
Few hours before that, at the same location I experienced similar situation, where 3 commanders were continuously attacking me as soon they spotted me. I got killed and had to pay 300k of insurance. There were few other npcs, not wanted just as myself, but they wanted to take me, just because I was human.
Apparently ED community have a lot of ... I would say ‘not mature’ players (by mind, not by age). I love the open and I always play that way, but this time I have chosen to go solo and I am happy about that.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
If we want more people come back to open, we should deal with this ‘psycho-kill-all-humans-just-for-fun’ commanders.
The pre-requirements for this solution is that the victims has no cargo onboard.

So if the human kills another not wanted human, even if they are at anarchy system, he should get enormous bounty and if the authorities got him, he should additionally pay to the victim all the damage he has done, (plus 20%?). Maybe that should be only for killing, not for shooting at.



Sorry my fellow commanders, I did a lot of talking. I would like to hear some other points of few.



CMDR Dark Jedi

NPCs will do both. Why can't players? And what makes someone psycho just because they attack you for reasons that are their own? Just because you can't conceive of a reason, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

The correct way to deal with players making trouble in game, of course, is to shoot them. Pay all damage +20%, even in a lawless anarchy system? No, I don't think they'll be doing that.

 

[Tigga]

NPCs will do both. Why can't players? And what makes someone psycho just because they attack you for reasons that are their own? Just because you can't conceive of a reason, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

I think part of the issue is that NPCs aren't nearly dangerous enough. You look at that, and it may fix a lot of the problems people have with Elite. Suddenly solo mode isn't safe mode, it's "not quite so dangerous" mode. Similarily, pirates would have to get tougher as police would no longer be just there to tickle you and occasionally fail to interdict you. They may have to increase black market incomes as well to compesante for this... but I think stronger NPCs would be good for the game overall.

 

[mninik]

Do you have any evidence that this is actually happening? Because the whole discussion is pointless if it isn't. I think you need to definitively establish there is a problem before you start working on a solution. A gut feeling that there might be a problem is not sufficient IMO.

No I don't have any evidence. I am just reading the forum comments, and I don't recall to meet any lakon9 full of gold trading in open.

But I would appreciate if FD share some numbers on this.

 

[Trashberg]

OP, congratulations on a well set out post.

I am still playing solo until I get my new joystick. but
I purchased this game so I could destroy other human players ships. Especially other fighters but any ship will do. I'm not to bothered if it has cargo or not. Thats what is fun for me. The only ED activity I enjoy is combat.
So..... KILLING PLAYERS FOR NO REASON is a problem you imagine because you have not been able to put yourself in the shoes of the other player. ie.. they are not killing you for no reason, they are killing you because they enjoy it, its fun.

Making rules for pirates seems pretty funny to me. Err... they are pirates because they dont follow the rules or laws

I think that punishing players for doing what they enjoy is not the right way to go. Maybe we could reward players for helping you to solve your problem instead.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
Bounties can not be paid off. Pirates should have very, very large bounties on their heads. This will reward bounty hunters and they will take care of your problem whilst providing more exciting combat for those who enjoy it. Pretty much what you said.

The 20% punishment is I think a bad idea. To test it try reversing the idea. Trading is too profitable so we should fine all traders 20% of their income and distribute it among non trading players. Does it make you feel good. Probably not.

Bounties can not be payed off??? Great idea. One stray bullet in a dogfight and you're a pirate for life. In two weeks, we'll all have 500 000 cr bounties and everyone will have 40 billion cr to spend because everyone just kills everyone everywhere. ED ruined.

I honestly can't see the fun in "killing players for no reason". In other games, maybe yes... But in ED, to enjoy destroying hours of work for another player, that's just bad, and you should feel bad

That said. Piracy has very important role in ED, but a pirates life must be hard. I think FD need to work on this a bit to get it just right.

 

[mninik]

NPCs will do both. Why can't players? And what makes someone psycho just because they attack you for reasons that are their own? Just because you can't conceive of a reason, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

The correct way to deal with players making trouble in game, of course, is to shoot them. Pay all damage +20%, even in a lawless anarchy system? No, I don't think they'll be doing that.

Never heard of npc pirate telling you to drop your cargo, and after you do that he kill you.

 

[figola]

Agreed. And the signature says it all

 

[Remiel]

Never heard of npc pirate telling you to drop your cargo, and after you do that he kill you.

Never heard of Kepler-438b until yesterday either, but apparently that exists despite our previous lack of knowledge of it. That, and I've had pleny of NPC encounters where they will interdict and attack for no other reason than to make me dead, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. So I would ask again, why can't players do what NPCs can?

 

[DieScream]

Nice thought OP, but PvPers are not going to think long term beyond some yuks for pking.

Yes, PvPers are driving people to solo play, the first time people get ganked and have hours of play set back, many will realize there is absolutely zero advantage to open play risk and bail to solo/group play.

The Pvpers are driving away their own entertainment because they are too immature to do anything but CoD in space.

"Pirates" what a crock, lol.

 

[CloneWarrior85]

PROBLEM No.1 - DOING PIRATING RIGHT.

Before you start with "doing it right", learn what Piracy is:

Piracy: An act of criminal violence, not only based on robbery, but can also lead into loot, murder, hijack and ransom. The term can include acts committed on land, air or sea.

So murder too huh? Pirates CAN kill their victims before, during or after they secure their loot, or they can let them go to tell the tale. It's up to each pirate, on how ever they work.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
If we want more people come back to open, we should deal with this ‘psycho-kill-all-humans-just-for-fun’ commanders.
The pre-requirements for this solution is that the victims has no cargo onboard.

So if the human kills another not wanted human, even if they are at anarchy system, he should get enormous bounty and if the authorities got him, he should additionally pay to the victim all the damage he has done, (plus 20%?). Maybe that should be only for killing, not for shooting at.

Those aren't pirates, those are murderes.


Pirates want profit.
Murderers want fun (or whatever ticks on their head ).

Now those are 2 types of players you might encounter, that's 2 things you learned so far.



And.... so, your solution is to destroy players who have fun in PVP in order for a PVE player like you to have fun?

How about for each trade item you sell, 60% of YOUR profits are splitted between every PVP player, since we're shooting crazy ideas?