Please stop mission timers when solo players log out

[Corwyn]

If the devs decide not to change the way game timers work by penalising you for having to log off, then I am certain they will lose a lot of players at some point in their playing career of this game.

I haven't met an MMO that doesn't have a penalty for failure to complete a mission/quest. I also haven't met one that doesn't have a timer on missions/quests. On those that are persistent world, of which there are a few, the timers keep going even after you log out.

This is just an argument to gain some aspect of a saved game, so there's far less risk in the game. It's the argument of the "I want my cake and eat it too" crowd.

This group of players are a minority, a vocal one, but a minority all the same.

FD is not going to change this core function of the game, for a minority. If this minority does leave, that's fine with everyone else, FD has your money, you have no grounds to gripe, because it's a choice, play as is, or leave.

No one is forcing you to do anything particular in game, you have choices, do missions, trade commodities, bounty hunt, pirate, explore, it's open to the player's imaginations.

If these player's leave, I certainly hope they find what they're looking for in life, but I suspect they won't, if they can't balance the various aspects of their lives, then they're going to find every single game out there, frustrating. They have no right to expect the game company's to give in to their demand's, because they are the minority, and that would hurt the majority.

I know there's going to be an argument that they aren't the minority, your argument on this too is invalid, you have no proof, so don't bother raising it, polls on forums are not going to work, because more players tend to play the game and read the forums, but fewer still actually take the time to post, or post regularly.

 

[bitstorm]

This seems to me to be a decent compromise, or something similar :-

eg Supply 4 units of coffee to Station X
Reward 500 cr

Penalty for completing in 8+ hours -500 (so you get nothing at all if you are very late, but no fines. If you don't deliver for free you need to abandon the mission, thus get a faction hit, fine and stolen cargo)
Penalty for completing in 4+ hours -250 (late delivery means less pay)
Bonus for completing in 3 hours 0cr
Bonus for completing in 2 hours 250 cr
Bonus for completing in 1 hour 500 cr

I think this should be included alongside the current system, adding variation is it itself is positive. Not one way or the other but both. In additional also have timerless missions but with a much lower profit margin.

So the game has :

1. Timed missions (I'd argue these are the norm) (higher profit as you've agreed and are guaranteeing terms up front)
2. Tiered timed missions (as outlined in the quoted post above, slightly less profit)
3. Timerless mission (lesser profit, aye it's fine as long as it gets there eventually)

The last one may be a touch controversial as it implies by choosing timerless you are in some way worth less, but again it comes right back to the argument that the galaxy and all it's npcs, along with THEIR wants and desires do not disappear once a single person logs off. In essence you are providing a service to these npcs (may be players going forward) therefore, for a given mission, more profit should be made for terms that more benefit the mission provider.

 

[timbow]

Once again posting this from a few pages back as neither camp actually addresses it, and simply continues the pointless circular arguments. Much easier to stay entrenched in your argument than actually try and figure out a way for it to work for everyone, after all.

This seems to me to be a decent compromise, or something similar :-

eg Supply 4 units of coffee to Station X
Reward 500 cr

Penalty for completing in 8+ hours -500 (so you get nothing at all if you are very late, but no fines. If you don't deliver for free you need to abandon the mission, thus get a faction hit, fine and stolen cargo)
Penalty for completing in 4+ hours -250 (late delivery means less pay)
Bonus for completing in 3 hours 0cr
Bonus for completing in 2 hours 250 cr
Bonus for completing in 1 hour 500 cr

This is brilliant - pizza delivery rules for missions . I had had similar thoughts. Another thought I had was if the "cargo" you are asked to carry is not necessarily what it says on the tin, so you get scanned by the cops on the way out of the station, and have to fight your way to SC or hyperspace to deliver your cargo - all very Millenium Falcon, but I'm sure that'd go down like a lead balloon with the vocal minority as well - can't be seen to be damaging the paint work with those awful lasers can we?

 

[harag]

1st world problems.. I find a good response for the girlfriend is to explain that she knows where you are and what you are doing. Rather than boozing at a bar and being seduced by hot temptresses.

... Until the next two expansions come out, then you will be down on the planet at the virtual bar, chatting up another virtual player.

 

[Thorne]

This is just an argument to gain some aspect of a saved game, so there's far less risk in the game. It's the argument of the "I want my cake and eat it too" crowd..

Uh, I want a saved game, of course. And I got one, on the server.

If I log off, one of the buttons to do so is actually labeled "Save and Exit", and my position, my craft, the number of credits, and the contents of my cargo hold, in fact ARE saved, and actually SAFE.

When I log back in, I still have my craft, my credits, and the contents of my cargo hold, and I will respawn at (or at least close to) the position I was when I logged off.

Do you want a game, where on relog you'll find out that a pirate shot you down while you were not logged in?
Or your credits reduced due to taxes?
Or your craft ran out of fuel?
Or a planet is now at the position you logged out and you find yourself respaning inside that planet?

Just the missions are different.
Those are missions that ME (the player) has received, yet when I DON'T PLAY and so CAN'T fullfill those missions (as I'm not actually present in the galaxy) those timers of the missions will run out on me, and I'll end up with stolen cargo, fines, and eroded rep.
That's just stupid game design and punishing the players who can't play for long periods.

This group of players are a minority, a vocal one, but a minority all the same.

How do you know?
Did you do a poll on the subject?

FD is not going to change this core function of the game, for a minority.

Why are timers that run out for players, while the players are not actively playing, a CORE FUNCTION of this game?

If this minority does leave, that's fine with everyone else, FD has your money, you have no grounds to gripe, because it's a choice, play as is, or leave.

Yawn, the old "this game is not for you, just leave" argument.
Never gets old.

No one is forcing you to do anything particular in game, you have choices, do missions, trade commodities, bounty hunt, pirate, explore, it's open to the player's imaginations.

If I accept a mission, the game actually does force me to not log off for longer periods, or it will punish me when the mission timers run out on me.

If these player's leave, I certainly hope they find what they're looking for in life, but I suspect they won't, if they can't balance the various aspects of their lives, then they're going to find every single game out there, frustrating.

There are tons of offline games, and also online ones, that I can play for some time, leave, and get back to them, without gettting punished for leaving (just other players may progress faster than me).

They have no right to expect the game company's to give in to their demand's, because they are the minority, and that would hurt the majority.

I claim, YOU are the minority here, defending this specific design choice.
A very vocal minority, but still the minority.
We (the players not liking this specific design decision, are the majority.

I know there's going to be an argument that they aren't the minority, your argument on this too is invalid, you have no proof, so don't bother raising it, polls on forums are not going to work, because more players tend to play the game and read the forums, but fewer still actually take the time to post, or post regularly.

You have no proof, too.
Still you claim to belong to the majority, regarding this specific design decision.

 

[TexasPete]

I haven't met an MMO that doesn't have a penalty for failure to complete a mission/quest.

Then you haven't played most MMOs.

This group of players are a minority, a vocal one, but a minority all the same.

Where is the proof that its a minority? I see one poll that ended straight down the middle 50/50 and then another poll that is pretty much headed in the same direction (about 58/42 at the moment). Both polls had very, very small population samples - almost insignificant statistically speaking. If you're going to make outlandish statements about statistics, please back it up with good data.

If this minority does leave, that's fine with everyone else, FD has your money, you have no grounds to gripe, because it's a choice, play as is, or leave.

Somehow I doubt Frontier will share your cavalier attitude towards their potential profit margins. You're assuming that people who are against the mission timers have already paid - this might not be the case, in which case they are potential customers. In sales terms (speaking as a sales professional), potential sales are far more important than completed sales. What I mean by that is that the importance lies in converting potential sales into completed sales. Once a sale has been completed, I no longer care about it at all - its someone else's problem after that. It sounds like you have already paid and played the game, so you are a 'completed sale'.

I know there's going to be an argument that they aren't the minority, your argument on this too is invalid, you have no proof, so don't bother raising it, polls on forums are not going to work, because more players tend to play the game and read the forums, but fewer still actually take the time to post, or post regularly.

I am not saying that one side or the other is in the minority or majority. I'm simply pointing out that YOU have stated this with absolutely no evidence to back it up. This throws a major spanner in the works of your argument - don't you see that? You have just done the very thing you're telling everyone else not to do - thats absurd! It really is like you're arguing with yourself.

 

[Vulcan24v]

I haven't met an MMO that doesn't have a penalty for failure to complete a mission/quest. I also haven't met one that doesn't have a timer on missions/quests. On those that are persistent world, of which there are a few, the timers keep going even after you log out.

This is just an argument to gain some aspect of a saved game, so there's far less risk in the game. It's the argument of the "I want my cake and eat it too" crowd.

This group of players are a minority, a vocal one, but a minority all the same.

FD is not going to change this core function of the game, for a minority. If this minority does leave, that's fine with everyone else, FD has your money, you have no grounds to gripe, because it's a choice, play as is, or leave.

No one is forcing you to do anything particular in game, you have choices, do missions, trade commodities, bounty hunt, pirate, explore, it's open to the player's imaginations.

If these player's leave, I certainly hope they find what they're looking for in life, but I suspect they won't, if they can't balance the various aspects of their lives, then they're going to find every single game out there, frustrating. They have no right to expect the game company's to give in to their demand's, because they are the minority, and that would hurt the majority.

I know there's going to be an argument that they aren't the minority, your argument on this too is invalid, you have no proof, so don't bother raising it, polls on forums are not going to work, because more players tend to play the game and read the forums, but fewer still actually take the time to post, or post regularly.

Since you quoted me initially I feel obliged to reply....

1.Please give examples of ANY MMO that has a persistant world and/or mission timers with penalties?
I have played many many MMOs and I am struggling to think of one so corroberate your statement please?

2.I have no need for a "saved game" I just want the ability to play ALL aspects of this game without having to worry about a time restriction carrying over into RL

3. You keep saying that the argument of minority/majority is invalid and we provide no proof but you in turn can provide no real proof to back your statements, please now provide some proof of this...

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

FD want to add missions and events that have context to what is happening as it's happening.
So a war kicks off in so-and-so system and missions crop up urgently requesting supplies for that area. It wouldn't make sense to be able to accept these missions, log off for a month and then turn up after the war has finished expecting your reward.
-
ED is a real-time game with real-time missions, I just don't see that changing anytime soon as it goes against the core vision for the game. Whilst this may create some clashes between play-time and real-life I also think it's one of the most interesting aspects of the game going forward.

 

[Half Giant]

Technically how could it work?

While I am logged out I am in neither single or multiplayer mode. So is the suggestion that it stops if my last played mode was single player or if I was in single player when I accepted it?

So if I was in multiplayer what would happen if I had a mission with a timer then logged out. Then logged into single player, accepted another mission with a timer, then logged out again. Which timers are running while I am not logged in?

The only clear solution is the current solution, in my opinion. It is fair and consistent. Everyone, regardless of mode, knows the terms of the contract when they accept it. If you think real life might interrupt it or you don't have enough play time then don't accept it. That is true regardless of what mode you play in. I should also consider if I can actually get to the destination in 12 minutes or if my basic Sidey can really bring down someone with a 150,000cr bounty.

 

[JosefEk]

Without reading the rest of the thread: please do not stop the timers. The game has persistent world so the time does not stop after you log out.

 

[Half Giant]

FD want to add missions and events that have context to what is happening as it's happening.
So a war kicks off in so-and-so system and missions crop up urgently requesting supplies for that area. It wouldn't make sense to be able to accept these missions, log off for a month and then turn up after the war has finished expecting your reward.
-
ED is a real-time game with real-time missions, I just don't see that changing anytime soon as it goes against the core vision for the game. Whilst this may create some clashes between play-time and real-life I also think it's one of the most interesting aspects of the game going forward.

FD want to add missions and events that have context to what is happening as it's happening.
So a war kicks off in so-and-so system and missions crop up urgently requesting supplies for that area. It wouldn't make sense to be able to accept these missions, log off for a month and then turn up after the war has finished expecting your reward.
-
ED is a real-time game with real-time missions, I just don't see that changing anytime soon as it goes against the core vision for the game. Whilst this may create some clashes between play-time and real-life I also think it's one of the most interesting aspects of the game going forward.

This is a very good point. It would also involve adding a lot of different error checking since the environment might change considerably. So paused mission clocks are a potential bug source and certainly more work for the devs.

 

[Vulcan24v]

FD want to add missions and events that have context to what is happening as it's happening.
So a war kicks off in so-and-so system and missions crop up urgently requesting supplies for that area. It wouldn't make sense to be able to accept these missions, log off for a month and then turn up after the war has finished expecting your reward.
-
ED is a real-time game with real-time missions, I just don't see that changing anytime soon as it goes against the core vision for the game. Whilst this may create some clashes between play-time and real-life I also think it's one of the most interesting aspects of the game going forward.

I am hoping that the present idea with every mission having a random timer to be completed is just a placeholder. I would be perfectly happy with a scenario such as you describe with a war as an event and there being a timer for supplies etc as this would make sense and I could decide whether to partake a mission.
Having a timer, but not only that but after it times out a swift kick in the goolies for not being able to stay online because real life intervenes, is what irritates me. It also leaves a bad taste for part of the game and I really don't want to have parts of this game I hate and avoid.

 

[Themadcow]

As a veteran of many MMO's I'm also struggling to think of many examples where you're actively penalised for not completing something in a set time frame. You might not get rewarded (obviously) but that's not the same as being penalised. That goes for everything from in-game money, to items to reputation.

As a parent and family man I'm also in the boat where timers are a massive pain in the ass for me. Typically this might be because it's 11pm and my wife says "I'm knackered, lets go to bed" and my choice is either to force her to stay up while I complete the mission or do the decent thing, but get penalised for it.

I fully accept that there are some missions where the circumstances (server event or the like) force a sitution where the mission becomes redundant outside of the 'window' for it's relevance - but for normal missions this should not be the case.

I'm frankly amazed at some people's attitude in this thread.

 

[Scrubfire]

I haven't met an MMO that doesn't have a penalty for failure to complete a mission/quest. I also haven't met one that doesn't have a timer on missions/quests. On those that are persistent world, of which there are a few, the timers keep going even after you log out.

There's this small game called World of Warcraft, you might have heard of it. I think it fits in the MMO category. You can drop a quest at any time without penalty. You can drop a timed quest at anytime and just pick it up again. One of the recognized ways in-game to fix a buggy quest is to drop it and pick it up again. But then maybe you haven't played WoW.

 

[SuBSynk]

There's this small game called World of Warcraft, you might have heard of it. I think it fits in the MMO category. You can drop a quest at any time without penalty. You can drop a timed quest at anytime and just pick it up again. One of the recognized ways in-game to fix a buggy quest is to drop it and pick it up again. But then maybe you haven't played WoW.

I'm pretty shocked you are using WoW to make your point..Seriously?

The most dumbed-down, casual and simplistic MMO out there. Most people i know hate what blizzard did to WoW and all to appeal to the most casual gamers & children.

 

[Scrubfire]

I'm pretty shocked you are using WoW to make your point..Seriously?

The most dumbed-down, casual and simplistic MMO out there. Most people i know hate what blizzard did to WoW and all to appeal to the most casual gamers & children.

Doesn't matter how care-bear WoW is. Just pointing out one of MANY different MMO's that do NOT penalize for dropping quests.

 

[TexasPete]

I'm pretty shocked you are using WoW to make your point..Seriously?

The most dumbed-down, casual and simplistic MMO out there. Most people i know hate what blizzard did to WoW and all to appeal to the most casual gamers & children.

I'm pretty shocked that you're raggin' on WoW to make your point. Do you imagine that its become unsuccessful or something? Because I can assure you that it hasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

Quote: "With over 10 million subscribers as of November 2014,^{[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft#cite_note-November_2014-12"][12][/URL]} World of Warcraft is currently the world's most-subscribed MMORPG,^{[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft#cite_note-Wrath_Release_Date-8"][8][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft#cite_note-13"][13][/URL]} and holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG by subscribers."

It would seem that a hell of a lot of people disagree with you. Frontier can only dream of numbers like this.

 

[Vulcan24v]

The whole idea of mission timers running outside of gametime and using other MMOs as evidence is valid whatever MMO you put up.
I have played...
WoW
SWTOR
LOTRO
Star Trek Online
Warhammer Online AOR

...just to pull a few off the top of my head and in NONE of these were you penalized for logging out with a mission/quest still pending. Even if you took a timed quest there was no penalty (aside from no reward) for a log off in the middle.

This is totally new to me and I want anyone to give me the name of a game where it has actually happened before..seriously... I don't know of one and I am immensely curious as to where this has been done.

 

[Watcher]

But the game times ARE real-time timers.... that's why it's called a LIVE universe.

There is only a need for them to be 'real time' while you are on-line in the game. That way a player with copious free time and a player without copious free time have exactly the same amount of actual on-line play time to complete the mission. There can still be a timer, I'm not saying get rid of them, but the time on the mission only applies to your time in the game.

For occasions when the universe can't wait then fair enough, the universe can't wait and a mission timer (if there was one) would have to tick down regardless. These cases are likely to be pretty rare though. I don't advocate holding up the universe where it impacts other players, but in most cases this just won't be the case...
What it comes down to is that the universe is not likely maintained at such fidelity that an individual players mission completion or otherwise is having any noticeable effect on the game much less on any other player. In that case, where missions are essentially personal to the player, there is no reason not to pause them while the player is off-line.

The live universe isn't that alive but it is there for us to have fun, why stop people from enjoying themselves without an actual reason for doing that..

 

[Corwyn]

Without reading the rest of the thread: please do not stop the timers. The game has persistent world so the time does not stop after you log out.

Agreed 100%