General PMF Application Process - Out of Date Info - Lack of Communication -- Stonewalling. "Not My Department" - Help/Discussion

Archangel2153

Archangel2153
Ian Doncaster said:
The general faction cap, no - the number of systems which are full to the limit with only NPC factions is tiny, and the other side effects it would have on the BGS might be significant.

Allowing PMFs to be added to systems which already contained other PMFs (but not the home system of another PMF) would free up thousands of systems on paper and reduce the rate of filling-up massively afterwards ... but of course almost all of those newly-available places would be extremely hostile for the incoming PMF, and only really suitable for those whose ambitions were "second place influence in one system, maybe own a minor station or two"

The only workable solutions I can think of are:
1) Massive and unprecedented expansion of the bubble itself - adding another 2-3000 inhabited systems a year would be sufficient to keep ahead of PMFs taking them up. Problem with that is that it would worsen everything else by spreading out the player base even further.
2) Change influence from per-system to per-asset, adjust BGS incentives to make ownership of Odyssey settlements, Horizons settlements and space installations less of a negative. Every few years add a new asset class (as each of Horizons, Beyond and Odyssey did) to keep things moving without spreading the player base too thin. The obvious problem is that it would require a near-complete rewrite of the entire political BGS and its interfaces with the rest of the game (especially of how the expansion, conflict and retreat mechanisms work), and there's probably not time to do that, nor any guarantee that the result would be fun.
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Other option would be for us to simply adopt a Minor Faction already present.
We've worked extensively pushing an alliance faction into our desired system.

in order to be alliance aligned with our desired PMF in our desired system.

Provided the whole PMF process is nothing more than a naming activity these days, there would be no point in creating another Faction to add to the pile.

and we can simply adopt a minor faction.

Seeing as how theres a 99% chance representation won't occur anyways

and representation is not the purpose of PMFs
 

Fake Newts

F
Unsolicited advice, given in earnest: join an existing group or adopt an existing faction.

Speaking from experience on both sides of the equation, the sense of ownership and satisfaction will come even if you didn't name the faction yourself, and be more sustainable if you don't have a bunch of larger factions stepping on your neck right out the gate. Even with the best will in the world new factions can only last as long as their players don't burn out, while more established ones usually have a rotating cast.

Just ditching the overt Mass Effect references should be enough to get you a PMF still, but be aware you may be disappointed with the result and sustainability. Pay close attention to Powerplay interests as well, it's often overlooked. There are systems with no PMFs in that will still resist you if you're the wrong government type for the controlling power.
 

Archangel2153

Archangel2153
Fake Newts said:
Unsolicited advice, given in earnest: join an existing group or adopt an existing faction.

Speaking from experience on both sides of the equation, the sense of ownership and satisfaction will come even if you didn't name the faction yourself, and be more sustainable if you don't have a bunch of larger factions stepping on your neck right out the gate. Even with the best will in the world new factions can only last as long as their players don't burn out, while more established ones usually have a rotating cast.

Just ditching the overt Mass Effect references should be enough to get you a PMF still, but be aware you may be disappointed with the result and sustainability. Pay close attention to Powerplay interests as well, it's often overlooked. There are systems with no PMFs in that will still resist you if you're the wrong government type for the controlling power.
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That's really good advice.

and already a contingency discussed among the leaders within my group (myself included)

We have a Minor Faction we can simply adopt that is already present in several systems and is alliance aligned.

as for PMFs of our own submission

We are still looking for potential names that would still work with our original vision for the PMF

Tatil __ ___

or Tatil Hierarchal Meritocracy --- which to the most extreme degree is still a turian reference. and as others have pointed out is "beggars" But I would still argue we need a finer point on how far something can be considered a reference.

or Tatil Allied Defense Force

etc.

or if we are not allowed system names in our PMF names.

then something along the lines of

T____

H_____

S_____

Tatil currently makes sense since that's the system we were originally interested in.

I would imagine now anything along those lines would be denied anyways.
 

varonica

varonica
Fake Newts said:
This is pure conjecture. Many squads have to submit multiple times before getting accepted, it's fairly standard these days.
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It certainly is, except this is a situation where they deliberately ignored the directions supplied by FDEV and continued to try and use IP that FDEV said they can't use, in a sneaky way to try and get past the restrictions in place to stop players using IP from other games, I doubt many squads try that.
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
Archangel2153 said:
Hello,

IF any CMDRS or F-DEVS could provide more insight into my issue, it would be greatly appreciated.

I am looking to get more insight into the current process regarding PMF applications as in the past few weeks I've had a significant amount of difficulty getting sufficient information from a member of the customer support team.

I submitted a PMF application within the Posted Guidelines for PMF applications.

as seen here
View attachment 282488View attachment 282490

Only to be told by the Agent on the support team who is in charge of denying or accepting PMF applications that the rules regarding PMFs have changed. They say the rules have changed two years ago; and are restrictive to a high degree.

When I question why the rules haven't been updated to reflect the admission changes they only said



which is pretty much saying "sorry that's not my department."
View attachment 282502


The agent also tried telling me that PMFs within Elite Dangerous are not designed to represent any player groups. PMF applications are merely meant to be a fun extra naming activity for CMDRS and the names must strictly be within ELITE lore, subject to further scrutiny, must not be made to be of much importance within elite, and can't in any way reference other IPS.

For the first part there about PMFs not being meant to represent player groups --- of which I represent over 100 CMDRS and on their behalf I have been trying to get actual communication out of this FDEV agent to little or no success.---

I am having difficulties getting a clear picture of what the actual truth is, as it seems to be the Agents words completely contradict the posted guidelines, how fellow CMDRs view the purpose of PMFs, and what is already in the game. I also do not understand how if these "NEW RULES" are of such strict importance, why FDEV hasn't quickly updated their FAQS page despite the rules being over two years old.

The Agent argues that PMFs are not designed to represent player groups.

View attachment 282488View attachment 282487View attachment 282501

The agent also argues that Naming rules are STRICTLY elite related.
View attachment 282490

Despite the posted rules seemingly being much more lenient.

After some discussion with other CMDRS across various discord servers I understand the possibility that referencing other IP could land FDEV in legal issues.

But if that is the case why are old PMFs and New ones treated differently if old PMFs are often verbatim copies of other IP <- Imgur Link.

also if that is the case why would similar names also be rejected, by referencing other material without directly copying the name. Much in the way comedy or satire references IP without attracting any defamation lawsuits.

Regrettably, my Player Group is a reference in itself - a rather direct one-- to another Devs IP. I also still am with the majority of CMDRS I've spoken with who view PMFs as an extension of their squadrons and player groups through which they can represent themselves within the ELITE BGS system and expand their agenda throughout the bubble.

View attachment 282511
The agent pretty much told me to give up the entire process. But I still have my fellow CMDRS to represent, who have been looking forward to their own PMF for months now.

I struggle to agree with the agents view as to the purpose of PMFs. I also struggle to accept that the posted rules are not even the rules.

Out of Respect to the agent who I was in contact with, I cropped out their names out of the attached images and will not directly name them.

My goal with this post is to at the very least have an in depth understanding as to:

    • Why the FAQS don't reflect the "rules".
    • also why the FAQS would not have been updated in over two years to reflect the changes.
    • Why the rules changed.
    • Why the new rules Don't affect in game PMFs.
    • Why Admission requirements come across as so inconsistent.
    • Whether FDEV agrees (as well as fellow CMDRS) with the agent regarding the purpose of PMFs.
    • Legal ramifications of IP references for player created Factions/Groups Which prohibit FDEV from accepting IP refs.
    • Why the current system for PMF applications doesn't follow posted rules, but rather FDEV agent opinion, knowledge of IP refs - in which I would imagine some subtle refs would get through.
    • What Actual guidelines are beyond "No Refs to anything".
    • Regarding my player groups Theme, what name I could have that would still reference my group, while also retaining some of our identity to the PMF.
    • If PMFs are not meant to represent Player Groups, despite the FAQs page, CMDR understanding on PMFs, and the fact they are called PLAYER MINOR FACTIONS.
    • What would even be the point of a PMF????

I represent over 100 CMDRS, and I would like our PMF to represent us. Or at least to better understand why that isn't what they are for.

I would also like to understand the rule changes in more depth.

If other CMDRs could offer their input or experience with the PMF application Process.

and if Any F-DEVS could provide insight the agent was either unable or unwilling to provide.

It would be much appreciated.

I love Elite Dangerous. I love the community I was able to build around it. I also would love for us to have our fair representation within the game. I know it would conflict with Elite Lore but so do many current PMFs already in Elite. I want to believe that player satisfaction is more important than protecting an already flawed lore system within the game.

It would mean the absolute world to all of us to succeed in this PMF process; and I fear now any further applications would be subject to unfair bias, or an overreach of the unposted rules.

If the posted rules are not even the rules, how can I still navigate to a successful PMF for my group?
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Crumbs, I had to skim most of the wall of text before OP admitted that he knew what the problem was himself all along. And as far as I noticed, he still didn't say what his proposed PMF name actually was to give us a good laugh.
 
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