Polygon and Twinfinite interviews - more Odyssey details, unknowns, and Walking-In-Ships not at launch

[Viajero]

whats the point of bring up a subject then when you are questioned you deiced to troll

Not trolling, your example actually confirms all the previously ones given are also gameplay loops.

As discussed before your personal view simply seems to be a bit too narrow, that is all.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Not trolling, your example actually confirms all the previously ones given are also gameplay loops.

As discussed before your personal view simply seems to be a bit too narrow, that is all.

no you are talking about game design gameloops are basic actions

 

[Boff'in]

I really want walking around on ships.
I've been screaming for it (inside my head) since game release, more so than SRV, planets surfaces.
But the chips fall the way they do because of the path of development.

Anyone who knows a thing or two, or has been a part of developing large software products spread over multiple waning/waxing teams of developers who aren't working for the full cycle, just know things must get developed in a certain sequence, to ensure and guarantee that the assumptions and question marks for future updates are handled by the next 4 quarterly cycles of updated.

Walking around ships is a Kickstarter promise.
It will be delivered now, or later.

It's simple to assume that Frontier could have started at either end of the string.
Planetary tech -> moving inwards towards -> ship internals spaces.
or
ship internals spaces -> moving outwards towards -> Planetary tech.

But where does "stations" and "gameplay" in the later?

And this why "working outwards" was more of a gamble,
imagine having ships to walk around first, and then duct tape on a planetary hanger, then duct tape on SRV, SLF, planets to walk down to, and all the actions inside the ships, and then duct-tape on missions, NPC faces for the stations the wrong path.
As that's a LOT of game to get "right" and that's before we could even "land" on a planet with an atmosphere and stations, to make sure the stellar forge planetary tech could do the job it's supposed to do as well as the background sim.

So when the dev's say, there is A LOT TO GET RIGHT with just thin-atmospheres, it means they A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THINGS WRONG with their assumptions of putting thin atmospheres AND STATIONS into the game as It required a lot more work.

Working outwards, would have given very little to do inside of the ships for years and any Missions would have been shoe-horned into the existing mission board setup.
Working outwards gave to many question marks, assumptions and suppositions that could blow up in their faces, whereas working inwards answered those questions.

So far the single dev-diary we have seen, the visuals of the planets has been the focus (planetary tech).
It´s easy to forget a lot MORE of the development time, has not just been about planetary tech, but getting STATIONS into the game, STATION gameplay loops, STATION missions, STATION internals, STATION NPC's, how STATIONS work with the background sim. That is a MASSIVE chunk of work.
And it's good that stuff is up and running BEFORE we walk around the ships, and not vice-versa.

Working inwards gives the FPS crowd something to do in-game and a solid foundation for ship-2-ship boarding gameplay, with pre-built assets, instead of appropriating current station-mission-board set up to do the converse if Fdev worked from the ship-internals outwards.

And Frontier have not abandoned or ignored Ship internals, as we know they have been parallel prototyped since day one and we saw with the launch of the Krait Mk2 and the trailer, ship-lifts and "some" internal spaces where being folded INTO the live game. With that update, we have had a lingering clipping bug of the landing gear clipping into the cockpit, or planetary hangers clipping outside of the ships external camera so it's not been clear sailing for the best-laid plans.

As I said, I want ship internals sooo badly.
But I want them done "right".
And if stations and planets-atmospheres need to built first, and battle tested in the live build, so ship internals can be rapidly developed afterwards, then I accept that.
I don't like it, but I accept it.

 

[Viajero]

no you are talking about game design gameloops are basic actions

Not at all no. You can observe most of the usual gameplay loop stages in the examples given so far. And I agree with your example too. You just need to broaden your personal view a little to accommodate for sandboxes / open worlds and also for emergent gameplay.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Not at all no. You can observe most of the usual gameplay loop stages in the examples given so far. And I agree with your example too. You just need to broaden your personal view a little to accommodate for sandboxes / open worlds and emergent gameplay.

no its not about personal view it is what it is

 

[Alien]

Forum game loop
Read posts
comment
read post saying you're wrong
comment

 

[Franc Kaos]

I really want walking around on ships.
I've been screaming for it (inside my head) since game release, more so than SRV, planets surfaces.
...
I don't like it, but I accept it.

I've been screaming (internally) for more planet types (how the game should have gone*):
Foundation: Galaxy, BGS, life (economy, missions etc)
Content: Lore and stuff to find, storylines (Thargoid invasion for eg)
Building the universe: Dead planets, tenuous atmos, gas giants, lava / water / ammonia then finally populated worlds
Addins: Getting up from seat, exploring ship, exploring stations, exploring planets
The fact they've gone for the last step proves the game is doomed - DOOMED I TELL'S YA!

* Do not abandon VR - like, ever; I don't like it and I won't accept it...

I'm seriously thinking of reinstalling ED - it's been nearly a year and my HOTAS is winking suggestively at me. Did they ever fix the Mamba?

 

[Viajero]

View attachment 185574

Indeed, with the distinction that Elite is not really an RPG and there are no levels (unless you count Elite ranks or more credits or advanced gear as such) all those basic loops exist in the examples given. You would also need to add additional diagrams for sandboxes and emergent gameplay where objectives and goals (and sometimes even rewards) are often set by the players themselves.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Indeed, with the distinction that Elite is not really an RPG and there are no levels (unless you count Elite levels or more advanced gear as such) all those basic loops exist in the examples given. You would also need to add additional diagrams for and boxes and emergent gameplay where objectives and goals (and sometimes even rewards) are often set by the players themselves.

no the loop is the loop
"emergent gameplay where objectives and goals (and sometimes even rewards) are often set by the players "
this dose not change the loop no matter how you try to dress it up

 

[Viajero]

no the loop is the loop
"emergent gameplay where objectives and goals (and sometimes even rewards) are often set by the players "
this dose not change the loop no matter how you try to dress it up

I didn’t say emergent gameplay or sandboxes change the basic principles in the game loops, just that players can create their own goals and often even the rewards in the loop too.

 

[Sysmon]

Find Raxxla: The One Loop to Rule Them All, and in the Darkness Bind Them.

S

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

I didn’t say emergent gameplay changes the basic principles in the game loops, just that players create their own goals and often even the rewards in the loop too.

no ... the loop dose not change . i cannot shoot henchmen in candy crush . if the player removes them selfs from the loop "create their own goals and often even the rewards "
then the loop is broken and is not achieving its goal

 

[Viajero]

if the player removes them selfs from the loop "create their own goals and often even the rewards "
then the loop is broken and is not achieving its goal

Sorry that does not make much sense. In emergent gameplay and sandbox gameplay players often develop their own goals. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail. In most cases there is also rewards of many different kinds for it. Loops.

Also remember emergent gameplay is just one of many different exploration gameplay variants, as shown above.

 

[Stigbob]

no its not about personal view it is what it is View attachment 185574

ED's loops are not quite so restrictive and they overlap.

ED res site combat loop, take mission, defeat targets of opportunity, defeat counter attack, reward bounty, reward mats, reward mission, bonus objective offered with sub loop, level up via engineering with mats, reward faction/superpower/pilots federation, move to next level harder res sites or CZ's with better ship and more rebuy in the bank.

Multiple loops all operating at the same time.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

Sorry that does not make much sense. In emergent gameplay and sandbox gameplay players often develop their own goals. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail. In most cases there is also rewards of many different kinds for it. Loops.

and that has nothing to do with gameplay loops ,can i publish a thesis of all the planets ive explored on a current exploration trip.... yes ... but not in game, the gameplay loop still dose not change

 

[Sysmon]

Exploration game play loop used to be:
Venture forth > scan systems > Return for profit.

Now that the return bit has been seriously shortened for many, the loop has been diminished to near insignificance. In the process, however, other opportunities for game play loops have arisen.

S

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

ED's loops are not quite so restrictive and they overlap.

ED res site combat loop, take mission, defeat targets of opportunity, defeat counter attack, reward bounty, reward mats, reward mission, bonus objective offered with sub loop, level up via engineering with mats, reward faction/superpower/pilots federation, move to next level harder res sites or CZ's with better ship and more rebuy in the bank.

Multiple loops all operating at the same time.

no.. taking combat missions ,and defeating counter attacks are part of the design and not the loop they come under the design of fight in the loop.

Leave station
go to combat zone
fight
leave combat zone
return to station

 

[Stigbob]

no.. taking combat missions ,and defeating counter attacks are part of the design and not the loop they come under the design of fight in the loop.

Leave station
go to combat zone
fight
leave combat zone
return to station

You missed out all the reward stages.

Exploration game play loop used to be:
Venture forth > scan systems > Return for profit.

Now that the return bit has been seriously shortened for many, the loop has been diminished to near insignificance. In the process, however, other opportunities for game play loops have arisen.

S

My version is venture forth to bag triple elite>explore systems>find geysers>SRV jumping>wreck them>return for new SRV's>get distracted by something else in the bubble>repeat.

 

[Viajero]

and that has nothing to do with gameplay loops ,can i publish a thesis of all the planets ive explored on a current exploration trip.... yes ... but not in game, the gameplay loop still dose not change

In Elite you can find all the loops you mentioned and then some. Same of those offered directly by the game, others set by players directly thanks to its sandbox nature and emergent gameplay possibilities.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

You missed out all the reward stages.



My version is venture forth to bag triple elite>explore systems>find geysers>SRV jumping>wreck them>return for new SRV's>get distracted by something else in the bubble>repeat.

no... taking missions come under leave station and reward come under either leave combat zone or return to station

" elite>explore systems>find geysers>SRV jumping>wreck them>return for new SRV's>get distracted by something else in the bubble>repeat "
that is not a loop that is you playing the game