Possible solution to the great Open PvE vs Open Only debate - a district for both?

So yeah, I hear the collective groans of everyone reading the thread title - "the horse is dead, leave it alone". I know, I've been around this game long enough to know that this debate has been raging since the Alpha days, with FDEV maintaining their frustratingly fence-sitting stance on the matter. However I think I may have a potential compromise that could keep everyone happy and enable all of us see what an open-only version of the game would potentially look like. And also, before you PvE maxis start sharpening your pitch-forks, hear me out as I've got you covered too.

So we have three different interest groups here that we need to account for:
  • Those who want to play in open, but don't want to deal with hostile players
  • Those who want all players to play in open so they can't use modes to evade player opposition (thus generating emergent gameplay)
  • Those who wish the game to remain as it is
Quite hard to keep everyone happy there right? Not impossible though... There is only one real solution, and it has a precedent - we have the newbie or Pilots Federation district. An area where special rules apply, you cannot return to once you have passed a certain point in your progression and you cannot in engage in PvP within the district without getting removed. Therefor it is not outside of the scope of the game lore to have special zones with special rules. This could help us solve the Open PvE vs PvP issue with the following:​

A Two-Sided Open-Only District of Systems

This would be a special zone of somewhere between 20 and 50 systems that would be split half and half between ones that have consensual PvP rules and ones with normal PvP rules. Say for example we had 50 star systems in the district - 25 of these would have the PvP restrictions, and the other 25 would allow PvP like would be normal anywhere. This split of the district would be like two halves of a sphere to make it easy to navigate around and see the extents of the zones.

The rules and traits of the open only district would be as follows:

The Consensual PvP Systems (50%)

  • All systems in the district would only be accessible in open play via a navigation permit that only appears while in open (greying out the solo and private group login options on the main menu if the players location was within the district when they logged out last).
  • All weapons fire from one player on another would be treated as 'Smart Rounds' unless the player getting attacked returns fire, then both parties weapons reset to normal
  • All experimental weapon effects are disabled against players within consensual PvP systems unless they return fire
  • Players would not be able to interdict or wake drop on other players in supercruise within a consensual PvP system (wake, manifest or kill-warrant scanners would be usable however)
  • Hatch-breakers cannot be used on other players within these systems
  • Ramming-damage is disabled unless weapons fire is exchanged
Incentives
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
  • Higher mission rewards (credits and materials)
  • Lower commodity purchase prices
  • A large selection of exotic rare commodities (with high supply caps)
  • Material traders offer all materials from one vendor (data, raw and manufactured cross-swaps available)
  • Better mining yields from asteroids
  • Remote engineering allows module-based experimental effects to be applied
  • Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 50% higher than normal

The Unrestricted PvP Systems (50%)

  • Again, these systems are only accessible in open play (same as above)
  • Weapons fire is all normal rules
  • Interdictors, ramming and other features such as hatch-breakers all work as normal
  • Although PvP rules are normal within these systems, they would still have varying security levels
  • Blocking does not affect instancing within these systems (it would defeat the purpose of the district)
Incentives
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
  • Higher commodity sell prices across the board (especially rares)
  • Higher grade material drops from signal sources, mining and combat (grade 4 or 5 only)
  • Material traders offer better swap rates
  • Interstellar factors are cheaper
  • Remote engineering allows weapons-based experimental effects to be applied
  • Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 100% higher than normal
  • The logout timer would be increased to 30 seconds, and all players in an interdiction instance would be notified if a player has activated a logout timer

What about neutral players?

So the proposed change would not negatively impact anyone who enjoys the current game setup, this district would have to be created out of an uninhabited area of space close to the bubble (much like how the pilots federation district was created). This would prevent changes happening with the BGS or Powerplay to groups already engaged in these playstyles.

I must be getting soft suggesting a consensual PvP zone :LOL:... but this is the only way I see this debate ever being settled in a fair way. And a change like this may give the game the shot in the arm it desperately needs after such a bad year PR-wise.

Doing nothing is always an option too for FDEV, but I fear the game will continue to haemorrhage players this way..
 
Non consensual PVP is just one issue when playing with others.
You also have to deal with trolls. People who block ports. People who ram you in a shieldless sidewinder to get you killed by the station.
There are any number of ways a jack ass can be a jack ass for nothing but knowing that they messed up someone else's day.
 
So a solution is to block players from going to systems without being in open? Good luck convincing FDev to even contemplate that.
 
Non consensual PVP is just one issue when playing with others.
You also have to deal with trolls. People who block ports. People who ram you in a shieldless sidewinder to get you killed by the station.
There are any number of ways a jack can be a jack for nothing but knowing that they messed up someone else's day.

I guess that's why blocking exists right?
 
So how does having 50 systems PVE help explorers who don't want to be ganked?



Except it's solution that's already been suggested...multiple times I might add!
This exact thing has been suggested? I've been on these forums for years and never read this suggestion... only various forms of PvP flagging and what not.
 
There is no debate around the subject of open-only, just some loud open-only voices who haven’t been able to accept, for seven years, that open-only is not the way the game has ever been or ever will be, in any way, shape or form, ever, period.

Should throw a little emphasis on the period.... something like PERIOD.
 
Has anyone contacted Robert?
Noooo..
There is no debate around the subject of open-only, just some loud open-only voices who haven’t been able to accept, for seven years, that open-only is not the way the game has ever been or ever will be, in any way, shape or form, ever, period.
The longest threads that have ever been made on this forum were always about this subject... clearly there is a debate lol
 
This exact thing has been suggested? I've been on these forums for years and never read this suggestion... only various forms of PvP flagging and what not.

Yes, various times having restricted areas for PvP and PvE has been suggested, mind you the threads in which they are suggested sometimes get to hundreds of pages with tens of thousands of comments, so if you just browse the thread titles and only read the first few posts it's easy to miss them. The fact you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist, and if I wasn't so tired and bedraggled from all the hundreds of "solutions" to this problem I would go and look for them, but you will have to do that yourself I am afraid!
 
Noooo..

The longest threads that have ever been made on this forum were always about this subject... clearly there is a debate lol

You misunderstand the meaning of "debate";

a formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote.

We don't get a vote, this isn't a debate, it's an argument, with one side always wrong!
 
So yeah, I hear the collective groans of everyone reading the thread title - "the horse is dead, leave it alone". I know, I've been around this game long enough to know that this debate has been raging since the Alpha days, with FDEV maintaining their frustratingly fence-sitting stance on the matter. However I think I may have a potential compromise that could keep everyone happy and enable all of us see what an open-only version of the game would potentially look like. And also, before you PvE maxis start sharpening your pitch-forks, hear me out as I've got you covered too.

So we have three different interest groups here that we need to account for:
  • Those who want to play in open, but don't want to deal with hostile players
  • Those who want all players to play in open so they can't use modes to evade player opposition (thus generating emergent gameplay)
  • Those who wish the game to remain as it is
Quite hard to keep everyone happy there right? Not impossible though... There is only one real solution, and it has a precedent - we have the newbie or Pilots Federation district. An area where special rules apply, you cannot return to once you have passed a certain point in your progression and you cannot in engage in PvP within the district without getting removed. Therefor it is not outside of the scope of the game lore to have special zones with special rules. This could help us solve the Open PvE vs PvP issue with the following:​

A Two-Sided Open-Only District of Systems

This would be a special zone of somewhere between 20 and 50 systems that would be split half and half between ones that have consensual PvP rules and ones with normal PvP rules. Say for example we had 50 star systems in the district - 25 of these would have the PvP restrictions, and the other 25 would allow PvP like would be normal anywhere. This split of the district would be like two halves of a sphere to make it easy to navigate around and see the extents of the zones.

The rules and traits of the open only district would be as follows:

The Consensual PvP Systems (50%)

  • All systems in the district would only be accessible in open play via a navigation permit that only appears while in open (greying out the solo and private group login options on the main menu if the players location was within the district when they logged out last).
  • All weapons fire from one player on another would be treated as 'Smart Rounds' unless the player getting attacked returns fire, then both parties weapons reset to normal
  • All experimental weapon effects are disabled against players within consensual PvP systems unless they return fire
  • Players would not be able to interdict or wake drop on other players in supercruise within a consensual PvP system (wake, manifest or kill-warrant scanners would be usable however)
  • Hatch-breakers cannot be used on other players within these systems
  • Ramming-damage is disabled unless weapons fire is exchanged
Incentives
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
  • Higher mission rewards (credits and materials)
  • Lower commodity purchase prices
  • A large selection of exotic rare commodities (with high supply caps)
  • Material traders offer all materials from one vendor (data, raw and manufactured cross-swaps available)
  • Better mining yields from asteroids
  • Remote engineering allows module-based experimental effects to be applied
  • Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 50% higher than normal

The Unrestricted PvP Systems (50%)

  • Again, these systems are only accessible in open play (same as above)
  • Weapons fire is all normal rules
  • Interdictors, ramming and other features such as hatch-breakers all work as normal
  • Although PvP rules are normal within these systems, they would still have varying security levels
  • Blocking does not affect instancing within these systems (it would defeat the purpose of the district)
Incentives
These systems could offer incentives within the following areas:
  • Higher commodity sell prices across the board (especially rares)
  • Higher grade material drops from signal sources, mining and combat (grade 4 or 5 only)
  • Material traders offer better swap rates
  • Interstellar factors are cheaper
  • Remote engineering allows weapons-based experimental effects to be applied
  • Bounty, Combat bond and exploration data rewards are 100% higher than normal
  • The logout timer would be increased to 30 seconds, and all players in an interdiction instance would be notified if a player has activated a logout timer

What about neutral players?

So the proposed change would not negatively impact anyone who enjoys the current game setup, this district would have to be created out of an uninhabited area of space close to the bubble (much like how the pilots federation district was created). This would prevent changes happening with the BGS or Powerplay to groups already engaged in these playstyles.

I must be getting soft suggesting a consensual PvP zone :LOL:... but this is the only way I see this debate ever being settled in a fair way. And a change like this may give the game the shot in the arm it desperately needs after such a bad year PR-wise.

Doing nothing is always an option too for FDEV, but I fear the game will continue to haemorrhage players this way..
hardlaughing.gif
 
Haha, these forums have got even saltier than I remember... no wonder this game is circling the toilet with an echo chamber like this.

It's not an echo chamber though is it? If you keep suggesting the same thing over and over again we eventually run out of new replies, so it's either repeat the same counter points over and over again, which would be an echo chamber, you understand that's what an echo is, the same thing repeated, or get annoyed and tell you what we actually think about people who keep bringing up the same thing over an over again. <- you see that there is your echo chamber, the people who keep repeating the same thing over and over again!
 
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