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Post 2.4 Core Gameplay Improvements : Exploration
- Thread starter ChrisT
- Start date
my 0.02$ about danger in exploration :
1) Exploration should have no "bang, you're dead" dangers. Only stuff you can get away from while suffering damage if the ship is in good shape.
2) Losing the ship in exploration should be a serious risk, but one that creeps on you little by little. A bit of damage here, a bit of damage there, I'll fix this latter,
Why not try that, and ... death. Death should be the consequence of cumulative damage and/or careless piloting.
3) Most dangerous places should have some invectives to push the player to go there, despite the danger. Either : special materials, temporary boosts, valuables or ability to repair/remove/prevent a problem.
And yes, BH should provide some form of boost. E.g. FSD boost proportional to the BH rotation speed*
*IMO the neutron star boost should be dependant on the neutron star properties and span a range from +200% to +1000% with a median at +300%. That would make finding the best neutron stars / BH
an interesting exploration goal, and building highways a nice cartography/mapping "gameplay".
As for SC, we'll see when it'll get there. But with 100 solar systems not at scale, I fail to see how it will be able to truly support epic exploration.
1) Exploration should have no "bang, you're dead" dangers. Only stuff you can get away from while suffering damage if the ship is in good shape.
2) Losing the ship in exploration should be a serious risk, but one that creeps on you little by little. A bit of damage here, a bit of damage there, I'll fix this latter,
Why not try that, and ... death. Death should be the consequence of cumulative damage and/or careless piloting.
3) Most dangerous places should have some invectives to push the player to go there, despite the danger. Either : special materials, temporary boosts, valuables or ability to repair/remove/prevent a problem.
And yes, BH should provide some form of boost. E.g. FSD boost proportional to the BH rotation speed*
*IMO the neutron star boost should be dependant on the neutron star properties and span a range from +200% to +1000% with a median at +300%. That would make finding the best neutron stars / BH
an interesting exploration goal, and building highways a nice cartography/mapping "gameplay".
As for SC, we'll see when it'll get there. But with 100 solar systems not at scale, I fail to see how it will be able to truly support epic exploration.
I like the Idea but ....these are all limited by Light Speed ....I would suggest a tunable Tachyon based pulse scanner to give similar results.
Caves can happen for more reasons than just erosion. Think about pockets of frozen mater, that turn to liquid / gas and flow away, leaving a void. Another scenario is where lava flows through underground tubes, and then flows out, leaving sometimes very long tunnels. This has been observed on the Moon. No weather there to speak of.
These cave forming events could be on-going, or have happened millions of years ago. Again, more variety.
Well yeah, no danger in the game should be "one shot kill". All dangers in the game should also be avoidable by skill, but there should be an added benefit if you are prepared to take the added risk (like the Neutron & White Dwarf stars I mentioned).
A game I have loved over the years is Civilisation. The aspect I like the most in it, is the early game, where you explore a totally black map, with a small ring of know territory around you. As you move your units outwards from your cities, you discover more natural features, resources and other cities.
Now, for that mechanic to work, you a few things.
* Known regions.
* Unknown regions.
* A fixed set of things to find.
This means, finding a station whilst exploring, and then going back later, and finding its gone, is IMHO just not acceptable. This mechanic needs to be removed from the game.
Instead, when we arrive near a planet / moon, it should be totally blank in terms of possible POI. Only after a scan, or high level orbit, should ANY POI be indicated on the map. And these should be fixed locations that can be seen by all players and persist between sessions.
POI themselves of course can be split into a few categories of discoverability.
A. Man made structures that broadcast their type and location. Think cities and other settlements.
B. Man made structures that do not broadcast their type / location. Think mining facilities, science bases.
C. Man made structures that actively shield themselves from discovery. Think secret military or science facility.
D. Natural sites that are easily spotted due to their size or emissions. Think Mountains, Volcanoes, Lakes
E. Natural sites that are relatively hard to spot dues to size or type.
So, when we scan from space, or in orbit, our scanners should find ALL locations that WANT to be found, or are easy to find. But, the quality of these POI will vary depending on their discoverability. Some, will show very detailed information. Sites that broadcast their type / location will be fully fleshed out. Whilst a small lake my show as say "A natural feature, a body of liquid, probably water @ 90% certainty".
For total mysteries, icons would show a generic symbol. For more certain sites, icons such as settlements, mines, lakes, mountains, volcanoes etc, would be shown.
As we visit sites, we would discover more about them as we approached. A possible cave entrance might resolve out to be nothing more than a land-slide or fumarole. Again, this level of discovery would be personal to us. Whilst the site would be universal. All other players could fly to the same planet and discover the same site, to a greater or lesser degree as we can.
Hidden sites would only be discoverable after installing special equipment that could be gained from certain navies of scientific bodies. If we were members of a Navy, we might be given a device for our ship, showing certain sites. As we rank up, higher level, covert sites would be revealed to us.
Now, for that mechanic to work, you a few things.
* Known regions.
* Unknown regions.
* A fixed set of things to find.
This means, finding a station whilst exploring, and then going back later, and finding its gone, is IMHO just not acceptable. This mechanic needs to be removed from the game.
Instead, when we arrive near a planet / moon, it should be totally blank in terms of possible POI. Only after a scan, or high level orbit, should ANY POI be indicated on the map. And these should be fixed locations that can be seen by all players and persist between sessions.
POI themselves of course can be split into a few categories of discoverability.
A. Man made structures that broadcast their type and location. Think cities and other settlements.
B. Man made structures that do not broadcast their type / location. Think mining facilities, science bases.
C. Man made structures that actively shield themselves from discovery. Think secret military or science facility.
D. Natural sites that are easily spotted due to their size or emissions. Think Mountains, Volcanoes, Lakes
E. Natural sites that are relatively hard to spot dues to size or type.
So, when we scan from space, or in orbit, our scanners should find ALL locations that WANT to be found, or are easy to find. But, the quality of these POI will vary depending on their discoverability. Some, will show very detailed information. Sites that broadcast their type / location will be fully fleshed out. Whilst a small lake my show as say "A natural feature, a body of liquid, probably water @ 90% certainty".
For total mysteries, icons would show a generic symbol. For more certain sites, icons such as settlements, mines, lakes, mountains, volcanoes etc, would be shown.
As we visit sites, we would discover more about them as we approached. A possible cave entrance might resolve out to be nothing more than a land-slide or fumarole. Again, this level of discovery would be personal to us. Whilst the site would be universal. All other players could fly to the same planet and discover the same site, to a greater or lesser degree as we can.
Hidden sites would only be discoverable after installing special equipment that could be gained from certain navies of scientific bodies. If we were members of a Navy, we might be given a device for our ship, showing certain sites. As we rank up, higher level, covert sites would be revealed to us.
Having had a few long range journeys that have resulted in un-scheduled endings... Cough.. Crash into planet, cough crash into sun, whistle.. ripped apart by neutron star jets...
I would love a way to mitigate the loss of time and effort up to those untimely endings. This idea might also add some interesting game play and strategy to exploring
The idea might allow pilots to drop exploration data caches on planets. Essentially snapshots of discoveries that have already been made. These data caches could persist after an unfortunate case of death for a period of time, maybe up to a few months in which they might be retrieved? Or maybe the length of time would be dependant on the level of hostility of the environment that the data cache was left in?
However, in dropping the data cache that data would be lost until retrieved. To retrieve a data cache pilots would need to visit the exact LAT/LONG on the planet they dropped the cache.
Maybe these data caches could be retrieved by any pilot? Upon handing in the data cache the credits (cash) would go to the pilot handing in the data cache. But the discovery tag goes to the original scanner, or maybe the systems are left un-tagged if the pilot handing in the cache was not the original discoverer?
If a data cache is not retrieved then all records are lost from that cache.
This might mitigate some of the risk of exploring and the severe time/effort loss when out in the black, while introducing new strategy, challenges, game play and cooperative play for explorers?
I would love a way to mitigate the loss of time and effort up to those untimely endings. This idea might also add some interesting game play and strategy to exploring
The idea might allow pilots to drop exploration data caches on planets. Essentially snapshots of discoveries that have already been made. These data caches could persist after an unfortunate case of death for a period of time, maybe up to a few months in which they might be retrieved? Or maybe the length of time would be dependant on the level of hostility of the environment that the data cache was left in?
However, in dropping the data cache that data would be lost until retrieved. To retrieve a data cache pilots would need to visit the exact LAT/LONG on the planet they dropped the cache.
Maybe these data caches could be retrieved by any pilot? Upon handing in the data cache the credits (cash) would go to the pilot handing in the data cache. But the discovery tag goes to the original scanner, or maybe the systems are left un-tagged if the pilot handing in the cache was not the original discoverer?
If a data cache is not retrieved then all records are lost from that cache.
This might mitigate some of the risk of exploring and the severe time/effort loss when out in the black, while introducing new strategy, challenges, game play and cooperative play for explorers?
+1 [up]
The data caches could be in signal sources floating nearby if it was death by star, or down on a planet if you pancaked on that high-G world.
Though I'm not sure about needing the exact lat/long to retrieve. What are the odds of remembering that? Normally when you're crashing, you're panicking and trying to survive, not calmly writing down coordinates.
Not saying it should be super easy, but you should get a rough area or something like they do with planetary salvage missions.
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I was thinking pilot might explicitly decide to drop the data caches, rather than make them an automatic event on death.
So on a 20LY journey a Pilot may choose to drop a cache at 10kly point. THen if they happened to turn into a fireball at a 6g landing they would still loose the dat from the 10kly point to the crash, but could travel out and recover the dropped data at 10kly and try and recover it.
So on a 20LY journey a Pilot may choose to drop a cache at 10kly point. THen if they happened to turn into a fireball at a 6g landing they would still loose the dat from the 10kly point to the crash, but could travel out and recover the dropped data at 10kly and try and recover it.
Ah, I see. Well that's definitely an interesting take on it.
How about both? You can preemptively drop a cache at specific coordinates, or if you go splat, the 'black box' gets left behind for you (or someone else) to retrieve. Though because it was the result of a crash, there's a percentage of data loss from the crash event.
Both of these would have timers before they expire (say due to radiation exposure). This way FD doesn't have to keep track of the resources indefinitely.
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It would be great if we made a compilation of all the exploration suggestions threads...
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/339418-Exploration-missions
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/339418-Exploration-missions
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Everything Mengy said was on point. I wanted to add a few things to his "New content" list that I think would go well with his overall concepts.
1- Exploration small vessels. Just like we have combat fighters an explorer could equip their ship hangars with exploration drone vessels. Although these ships dont have firepower on them, they have some scanning abilities and can fly pretty quick in the planet. These exploration drones can be used to help the explorer locate stuff planet side instead of using the SRV. The SRV still holds the role of mining and lifting cargo. This exploration vessel is meant to take you into dangerous zones where if you lose it you could buy another. Instead of risking your life or the life of your ship, the exploration vessel drone can be used in its place.
Some other thoughts. I think that a ship that is meant for exploration should have much further jump range. I would say a buff would be something that should be considered for exploration type vessels. A buff of about 25% jump distance.
I think that you could also give a commander lots of money for discovering metallic pristine rings that have not been found yet. A lot of money should be given to a commander for discovering earth like worlds as well. These are essential to the human race and should reward a commander that finds them first with a lot and I mean a lot of money. I just discovered a planet that supports human life I mean I should be rich and famous basically.
That is about all I got to add to this and that I really think more thought should be given to Persistence when it comes to POI on planets rather than generating random noise around the player.
I really hope these next few patches come and work on Exploration, mining and trading as well as pirating. All of these things lack balance and depth.
1- Exploration small vessels. Just like we have combat fighters an explorer could equip their ship hangars with exploration drone vessels. Although these ships dont have firepower on them, they have some scanning abilities and can fly pretty quick in the planet. These exploration drones can be used to help the explorer locate stuff planet side instead of using the SRV. The SRV still holds the role of mining and lifting cargo. This exploration vessel is meant to take you into dangerous zones where if you lose it you could buy another. Instead of risking your life or the life of your ship, the exploration vessel drone can be used in its place.
Some other thoughts. I think that a ship that is meant for exploration should have much further jump range. I would say a buff would be something that should be considered for exploration type vessels. A buff of about 25% jump distance.
I think that you could also give a commander lots of money for discovering metallic pristine rings that have not been found yet. A lot of money should be given to a commander for discovering earth like worlds as well. These are essential to the human race and should reward a commander that finds them first with a lot and I mean a lot of money. I just discovered a planet that supports human life I mean I should be rich and famous basically.
That is about all I got to add to this and that I really think more thought should be given to Persistence when it comes to POI on planets rather than generating random noise around the player.
I really hope these next few patches come and work on Exploration, mining and trading as well as pirating. All of these things lack balance and depth.
Awesome ideas, all around. Personally, I'd like the ability to shave just a little bit time off of repetitive exploration tasks. For example, quicker 'steroid/planet/star scan time for better sensors. And non/limited FSD capable drones that can be launched to map multi-moon systems and retrieved later (unless they transmit the data when done, this is purely a game balance issue that needs to be tested and tuned), so that I can drop by a Jovian, launch probe and continue on to scan solitary planets while the probe handles scanning the Jovian and its moons.
One thing that really annoys me is, that even out there in the black in completely uninhabited systems I've been attacked by pirates. Makes absolutely no sense.
Also completely agree with everyone pointing out the need for more content, variation, risks. Volcanism, electrical or solar storms and such could add flavor and risk. Currently, I don't find enough reasons to land on planets, which is a shame. Surface samples would be awesome - perhaps requiring single-use equipment taking up cargo space and deployed using the SRV at promising sites. Could be different equipment for geological samples (for example mineral rich and volcanic samples would be more valuable) and biological samples (mostly worlds with water or ice). Or perhaps geo samples could be taken with any science-fitted SRV (no expended equipment), or alternatively with single-use space-launched probes that transmit their data when done.
Although I don't play wing/co-op, I'd imagine some group exploration options would be much welcomed, too. Shared bookmarks? Maybe ability to leave "data stashes" that show up in wing/friend galaxy map, and which when retrieved and returned to Universal Cartography split the bounty 50:50 with first discoveries going to the one who left the stash? It's quite boring to make painstakingly long trips into the black, back to civilization and back again. Of course, strangers can find them and return them (perhaps smuggle them in should they be tagged illegal salvage - again a game balance consideration), claiming 50% of the profit. Or, if evil enough, sell them via the black market to have them "cracked", in which case the dealer and cracker take their share, the original explorer gets none, and the data thief gets slightly less than half, plus possible first discovery props?
One thing that really annoys me is, that even out there in the black in completely uninhabited systems I've been attacked by pirates. Makes absolutely no sense.
Also completely agree with everyone pointing out the need for more content, variation, risks. Volcanism, electrical or solar storms and such could add flavor and risk. Currently, I don't find enough reasons to land on planets, which is a shame. Surface samples would be awesome - perhaps requiring single-use equipment taking up cargo space and deployed using the SRV at promising sites. Could be different equipment for geological samples (for example mineral rich and volcanic samples would be more valuable) and biological samples (mostly worlds with water or ice). Or perhaps geo samples could be taken with any science-fitted SRV (no expended equipment), or alternatively with single-use space-launched probes that transmit their data when done.
Although I don't play wing/co-op, I'd imagine some group exploration options would be much welcomed, too. Shared bookmarks? Maybe ability to leave "data stashes" that show up in wing/friend galaxy map, and which when retrieved and returned to Universal Cartography split the bounty 50:50 with first discoveries going to the one who left the stash? It's quite boring to make painstakingly long trips into the black, back to civilization and back again. Of course, strangers can find them and return them (perhaps smuggle them in should they be tagged illegal salvage - again a game balance consideration), claiming 50% of the profit. Or, if evil enough, sell them via the black market to have them "cracked", in which case the dealer and cracker take their share, the original explorer gets none, and the data thief gets slightly less than half, plus possible first discovery props?