power play 2.0

[Viper 55]

I understand that it is being considered to force players into OPEN to partake the Power Play 2.0 features. I hope to god that is NOT going to happen. Myself as well as hundreds of players in my squadron think that is a huge mistake. First and foremost, FDEV would HAVE to get rid of all grievers and gankers to make that remotely viable considering how many new players partake in that for better equipment on their ships. Now we all know that will NEVER happen. So to keep Power Play alive, it will need to be equal across the board in Private Group and Solo. Do not make this a regrettable decision, I think FDEV is heading in the right direction and would hate to see a loss of player base and company revenue due to a poor judgment call. Forcing open play is never a good idea. Too many people like to "Limit" their contact with trolls, grievers, gankers and toxic players. That is the main reason Single player games are taking back off, people are SICK off toxic MMO's. I hope to see better judgement prevail on this.
Great job on the Python MK II by the way, I love this ship.

 

[Rebel Yell]

What power you play for?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Zalwig]

Which squadron is this, that plays PP in solo?

Also asking for a friend.

 

[Viper 55]

Which squadron is this, that plays PP in solo?

Also asking for a friend.

 

[Viper 55]

"PRIVATE GROUP" is what I said. Some individuals play in solo, mostly newbies. But here you go FDEV, a prime example of what I was saying. Take note.
* Answering for a friend*

 

[Rebel Yell]

Which squadron is this, that plays PP in solo?

Also asking for a friend.

Seems you have some friends in common

 

[BigGreenWaterballoon]

I rarely post on the forums but this topic has got me on the soapbox.

I can see this debate from a number of different sides - for example we tell the explorers in our sqdn that it's ok to return to the bubble to sell masses of exploration data in solo or PG. However we stipulate open only BGS once cmdrs are promoted out of our boot camp, and foster postive PvP practises. When I first started I used to play solo until I started joining sqdns / groups. I play open almost exclusively now.

Everyones bought the game and has a right to play it as they wish - RP or otherwise. However when that play overlaps or impinges on the playing of the game by others we get into the wider debate. I've seen small groups of cmdrs with no better intent than harassment push larger groups into lengthy BGS wars, purely because the beligerant fights in PG and solo. This kind of thing ruins the experience for all involved. I've also seen large groups work in PG / solo to press smaller groups into corners and extinguish them.

Both these situations would be wholly unrealistic - there's no way you would be able to RP hiding like ninjas with the volume of traffic and number of players so the "PG is RP-ing sneak attacks" argument is mute for these scenarios. Yes, it would be appropriate for initial sneak attacks of 1-2 cmdrs and that's a realistic scenario... but the only one. It's good to have other players working against you when you attack their systems. I've found it actually creates a level of respect in most groups that end up having a scrap (or afterwards at least!).

We have friendly groups who play only in PG and do some BGS, but go out of their way not to antagonise or cause problems with other player groups so I also believe that this is a valid approach. There's also the situations with the Xeno war where there's so many players (and so many instances) that there are many glitches in the AX scenarios - the only viable solution is PG for these unfortunately (at the moment at least).

The best way to conduct wars for the majority of the community - and being on a hell of a lot of discords I can see this is a widely shared opinion - is to provide a disadvantage for those waging wars from PG / solo in such a way that it is still very possible to enjoy the sandbox BGS from PG / solo but that actions in open have a greater effect.

I don't think that open-only is workable but a balance of BGS action weighting looks much more effective and fair. I also have a great deal of faith in the Elite community (I've played since preview on XB and am regularly amazed by the community output) in that gankers will always be policed, and the gankers will keep the police busy! It's a welcome part of the simulation as it is in any other game.

TL;DR
PP 2.0 and the game in general would massively benefit from a gentle push for cmdrs to play in open more. Defining a weighting ratio for BGS (and PP actions) would be beneficial for example:
Open actions - 1.0
PG actions - 0.5
Solo actions - 0.4

I also think the current bias for the defender in BGS is beneficial. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[Viper 55]

Seems you have some friends in common

Seems you're still trolling, point made.

 

[Viper 55]

I rarely post on the forums but this topic has got me on the soapbox.

I can see this debate from a number of different sides - for example we tell the explorers in our sqdn that it's ok to return to the bubble to sell masses of exploration data in solo or PG. However we stipulate open only BGS once cmdrs are promoted out of our boot camp, and foster postive PvP practises. When I first started I used to play solo until I started joining sqdns / groups. I play open almost exclusively now.

Everyones bought the game and has a right to play it as they wish - RP or otherwise. However when that play overlaps or impinges on the playing of the game by others we get into the wider debate. I've seen small groups of cmdrs with no better intent than harassment push larger groups into lengthy BGS wars, purely because the beligerant fights in PG and solo. This kind of thing ruins the experience for all involved. I've also seen large groups work in PG / solo to press smaller groups into corners and extinguish them.

Both these situations would be wholly unrealistic - there's no way you would be able to RP hiding like ninjas with the volume of traffic and number of players so the "PG is RP-ing sneak attacks" argument is mute for these scenarios. Yes, it would be appropriate for initial sneak attacks of 1-2 cmdrs and that's a realistic scenario... but the only one. It's good to have other players working against you when you attack their systems. I've found it actually creates a level of respect in most groups that end up having a scrap (or afterwards at least!).

We have friendly groups who play only in PG and do some BGS, but go out of their way not to antagonise or cause problems with other player groups so I also believe that this is a valid approach. There's also the situations with the Xeno war where there's so many players (and so many instances) that there are many glitches in the AX scenarios - the only viable solution is PG for these unfortunately (at the moment at least).

The best way to conduct wars for the majority of the community - and being on a hell of a lot of discords I can see this is a widely shared opinion - is to provide a disadvantage for those waging wars from PG / solo in such a way that it is still very possible to enjoy the sandbox BGS from PG / solo but that actions in open have a greater effect.

I don't think that open-only is workable but a balance of BGS action weighting looks much more effective and fair. I also have a great deal of faith in the Elite community (I've played since preview on XB and am regularly amazed by the community output) in that gankers will always be policed, and the gankers will keep the police busy! It's a welcome part of the simulation as it is in any other game.

TL;DR
PP 2.0 and the game in general would massively benefit from a gentle push for cmdrs to play in open more. Defining a weighting ratio for BGS (and PP actions) would be beneficial for example:
Open actions - 1.0
PG actions - 0.5
Solo actions - 0.4

I also think the current bias for the defender in BGS is beneficial. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am not referring to the faction wars specifically, and I agree they should be "Tiered". I am referring to NEW PLAYERS grinding for say Prismatic Shields should not be subjected to some POS with a G5 engineered FDL and get 1 tapped. There needs to be a BALANCE in all of it. Which means OPEN ONLY is out of the question if newer players are going to have any chance to partake in "EQUIPMENT' grind upgrades {i.e.- Prismatic shields, Packhounds, etc.}. If they do 1500 Merits, it should count as such and not be halved and penalized because they are in Solo or PG.

 

[Zalwig]

Seems you have some friends in common

But it's an independent squadron and I hope he's only module shopping

 

[Rebel Yell]

Seems you're still trolling, point made.

It's powerplay humour

I am not referring to the faction wars specifically, and I agree they should be "Tiered". I am referring to NEW PLAYERS grinding for say Prismatic Shields should not be subjected to some POS with a G5 engineered FDL and get 1 tapped. There needs to be a BALANCE in all of it. Which means OPEN ONLY is out of the question if newer players are going to have any chance to partake in "EQUIPMENT' grind upgrades {i.e.- Prismatic shields, Packhounds, etc.}. If they do 1500 Merits, it should count as such and not be halved and penalized because they are in Solo or PG.

No one knows what's going to happen, at the moment new players can still have their modules picking the game mode they like.

Some of the powerplay groups asked here to find a solution for the modules OUTSIDE the powerplay.

At same time, some of powerplay groups asked here to make powerplay OPEN ONLY.

Then a lot of opinions and alternative proposals have been presented and discussed... anyway, if the case will be that powerplay becomes OPEN ONLY, and module unlocks remain tied to powerplay rank progression (as shown in the Unlocked), who wants the module will have to run the risk, amen.

 

[BigGreenWaterballoon]

I am not referring to the faction wars specifically, and I agree they should be "Tiered". I am referring to NEW PLAYERS grinding for say Prismatic Shields should not be subjected to some POS with a G5 engineered FDL and get 1 tapped. There needs to be a BALANCE in all of it. Which means OPEN ONLY is out of the question if newer players are going to have any chance to partake in "EQUIPMENT' grind upgrades {i.e.- Prismatic shields, Packhounds, etc.}. If they do 1500 Merits, it should count as such and not be halved and penalized because they are in Solo or PG.

New players grinding for prizzies? I mean... 750t of <insert powers merit commidity here> shipped to a control system from exploited or some combat to shoot enemy power ships. If the latter you should absolutely expect the power under attack to take exception to that surely? I know the commodity route is a painful click routine but it doesn't take long. There's a lot of potential expoited-control system combos to choose from and opposition cmdrs can't be everywhere. Inara has a security report which is a great litmus test of where there may be some action.

From extensive personal experience the amount of time gankers are about (or just enemy / hostile power players) vs. the amount of time you're in system doing PP work is a miniscule ratio. But even then.... it's a risk vs. reward balance throughout Elite... the greater the risk the greater the reward! When we fly in open and expect it to get sporty we team up with circle shooters in our group for cover.

Maybe personal merits would potentially be reduced or perhaps the effect of those merits on the PP sliders would be reduced i.e. you could adjust your rep freely but have less actual PP effect in PG / solo? Again a weighting here could benefit everyone and potentially be the compromise between open only vs. open / PG / solo

 

[BigGreenWaterballoon]

I am not referring to the faction wars specifically, and I agree they should be "Tiered". I am referring to NEW PLAYERS grinding for say Prismatic Shields should not be subjected to some POS with a G5 engineered FDL and get 1 tapped. There needs to be a BALANCE in all of it. Which means OPEN ONLY is out of the question if newer players are going to have any chance to partake in "EQUIPMENT' grind upgrades {i.e.- Prismatic shields, Packhounds, etc.}. If they do 1500 Merits, it should count as such and not be halved and penalized because they are in Solo or PG.

I forgot to add, slighty diff topic but one you've rightly raised:

One of our cmdrs had a great point - PP modules are generally a bad idea as it encourages negative consequences just for the sake of another pointless grind. This cmdr notes that there's no allegiance to the power, it's just another grind for shiny things. People should do PP because they want to do PP.

Example: Why not tie them to engineers instead of PP? I don't know if there's a wider enthusiasm for this decision to tie them to powerplay but I think Elite and it's amazing community have evolved.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I understand that it is being considered to force players into OPEN to partake the Power Play 2.0 features. I hope to god that is NOT going to happen. Myself as well as hundreds of players in my squadron think that is a huge mistake. First and foremost, FDEV would HAVE to get rid of all grievers and gankers to make that remotely viable considering how many new players partake in that for better equipment on their ships. Now we all know that will NEVER happen. So to keep Power Play alive, it will need to be equal across the board in Private Group and Solo. Do not make this a regrettable decision, I think FDEV is heading in the right direction and would hate to see a loss of player base and company revenue due to a poor judgment call. Forcing open play is never a good idea. Too many people like to "Limit" their contact with trolls, grievers, gankers and toxic players. That is the main reason Single player games are taking back off, people are SICK off toxic MMO's. I hope to see better judgement prevail on this.
Great job on the Python MK II by the way, I love this ship.

FDEV would HAVE to get rid of all grievers and gankers

You do get that Powerplay is a feature about direct action against others, right? The very worst they can do is blow you up- which is a valid aim in PP V2:

I'm all for blocking messages and grown up words and phrases though.

So would you prefer stronger NPCs given how puny PP NPCs currently are, to make solo more difficult?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I am not referring to the faction wars specifically, and I agree they should be "Tiered". I am referring to NEW PLAYERS grinding for say Prismatic Shields should not be subjected to some POS with a G5 engineered FDL and get 1 tapped. There needs to be a BALANCE in all of it. Which means OPEN ONLY is out of the question if newer players are going to have any chance to partake in "EQUIPMENT' grind upgrades {i.e.- Prismatic shields, Packhounds, etc.}. If they do 1500 Merits, it should count as such and not be halved and penalized because they are in Solo or PG.

Us module shoppers can (and I believe have) make our position clear elsewhere previously.
If you wish to discuss the relationship between BGS and PP that would be more productive for you and the hundreds of friends (of Bazmeson?)

 

[Viper 55]

It seems the main problem is that FDEV tied the really good stuff (Prismatics, Packhounds, etc.) behind a PP wall. Which. I think is wrong as well. But to actually EXPECT a NEW player to take his unarmed, un-engineered shiny T7 into open to continually beat his head against a wall and loose everything while trying to "GRIND" his shiny prizzies just to be relevant in this game, you are out of your minds. There is a lesson in "Futility" here. Be realistic about the fact that at the end of the day, this is a VIDEO GAME. People play games, "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY". Some of you are also hiding behind the excuse of a couple noobs affecting the BGS to grind their shiny new whatever. 1 tapping a unarmed T7 just because he/she may or may not swing the needle is B.S. FDEV is the one to talk to about tying them to PP, not me. So if increasing the NPC AI to be a smidge tougher, then so be it. But remember that the AI is tougher as your Combat Rank increases. So again, is it fair to put ELITE level NPC's against a "Defenseless" noob? I think not. At the end of the day, it's about having "FUN", not being ganked by someone taking a game too damn seriously. There needs to be a "BALANCE", and none of the arguments so far have contributed to a BALANCED idea to put forward to FDEV for possible review. Try being constructive and remember the grind as a noob. You all have either forgotten or just take sadistic pleasure in ganking noobs. Either way, it's still a game to be played as the person choses too. They should NOT BE PENALIZED for not having the capability to partake in open with G5 FDL clowns who breed/spread misery for fun. Again the "Toxicity" would need to be cleaned up. And that's the bottom line.

 

[Viper 55]

New players grinding for prizzies? I mean... 750t of <insert powers merit commidity here> shipped to a control system from exploited or some combat to shoot enemy power ships. If the latter you should absolutely expect the power under attack to take exception to that surely? I know the commodity route is a painful click routine but it doesn't take long. There's a lot of potential expoited-control system combos to choose from and opposition cmdrs can't be everywhere. Inara has a security report which is a great litmus test of where there may be some action.

From extensive personal experience the amount of time gankers are about (or just enemy / hostile power players) vs. the amount of time you're in system doing PP work is a miniscule ratio. But even then.... it's a risk vs. reward balance throughout Elite... the greater the risk the greater the reward! When we fly in open and expect it to get sporty we team up with circle shooters in our group for cover.

Maybe personal merits would potentially be reduced or perhaps the effect of those merits on the PP sliders would be reduced i.e. you could adjust your rep freely but have less actual PP effect in PG / solo? Again a weighting here could benefit everyone and potentially be the compromise between open only vs. open / PG / solo

Thank you for a constructive input post.

 

[Viper 55]

You do get that Powerplay is a feature about direct action against others, right? The very worst they can do is blow you up- which is a valid aim in PP V2:

View attachment 392705

I'm all for blocking messages and grown up words and phrases though.

So would you prefer stronger NPCs given how puny PP NPCs currently are, to make solo more difficult?

Yes, within reason.

 

[Viper 55]

I forgot to add, slighty diff topic but one you've rightly raised:

One of our cmdrs had a great point - PP modules are generally a bad idea as it encourages negative consequences just for the sake of another pointless grind. This cmdr notes that there's no allegiance to the power, it's just another grind for shiny things. People should do PP because they want to do PP.

Example: Why not tie them to engineers instead of PP? I don't know if there's a wider enthusiasm for this decision to tie them to powerplay but I think Elite and it's amazing community have evolved.

I agree

 

[Rebel Yell]

It seems the main problem is that FDEV tied the really good stuff (Prismatics, Packhounds, etc.) behind a PP wall. Which. I think is wrong as well. But to actually EXPECT a NEW player to take his unarmed, un-engineered shiny T7 into open to continually beat his head against a wall and loose everything while trying to "GRIND" his shiny prizzies just to be relevant in this game, you are out of your minds.

PP wall?

It's 3 trips (+ few millions for the fast track) using a T7 to earn 750 merits.

You're still talking about something which is going to change in a few (may be a couple) of months.

We do agree that modules tied to PP are a bad idea, but that's it.

PP should be considered as a sort of "end game" (or advanced) activity in the game...

There is a lesson in "Futility" here. Be realistic about the fact that at the end of the day, this is a VIDEO GAME. People play games, "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY".

I don't get the "futility" part, anyway it's a lof of ENTERTAINMENT to destroy players aligned to other powers! Who said the contrary?

Some of you... [RANT] ...that's the bottom line.

Are you complaining about NPCs being too strong for noob powerplayers?

Or for the risk that noobs pledged to some power for modules are being shot by some one else in a murder boat pledged to an enemy power?