Powerplay 2 balance: murder rewards far too low (committing crimes task)

[Rubbernuke]

In the past murdering NPCs has been nerfed several times, and this has leaked into Powerplay 2 where it is a stated goal for some powers (and I assume a general one for others).

This frankly is a bit silly, because murder should be the best way to undermine and yet the rewards are not balanced with its downsides.

Its most pronounced at the low end with unpledged NPCs. Playing just now I can scan an NPC for 5 merits, and be 'rewarded' with 11 for blowing it up. However the former is 'free' while the latter will land you with notoriety, a bounty (based on C+P levels that can be millions per NPC) and have security on you. For example I did some tests and from a wing of three mid rank / one dangerous wing I got 33 merits total, 10 million in bounties against me and 3 points of notoriety. If I had scanned them I'd have 15 merits with no downsides. Frankly its not worth the effort for that 50ish% extra, when undermining is supposed to be showing the locals the power in charge is weak.

Now, I'm not advocating for the negatives to be changed- crime is crime. But, the merits for doing crime do not match what it 'costs' and should reflect those downsides.

So the changes I'd like to see are that there is no distinction between pledged and unpledged NPCs as far as crime is concerned and merits are increased (at least doubled)- in the end its still a demonstation that the local power ruling is weak.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Two hours of watching every move you make so you don't get fined or a bounty in a system you're trying to fortify doesn't seem to be worth the 6 merits either.

Agree that the negatives are fine, but yeah, the lack of positives would discourage someone from this route.

 

[Yuri John]

5 years later... PP 3.0.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Having done some more rudimentary tests pledged rewards are a bit low too, given that on scan of regular (non pledged) security after blowing them up you go hostile and wanted (interesting wrinkle though!)

The rewards there were 30 /46/46 but again, if you are wanted by regular security (not power security) thats far too low in my opinion, since lawful behaviour can be repeated over and over without the same constraints.

 

[Koma Pahu]

This doesn’t sound well balanced at all.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This doesn’t sound well balanced at all.

Its not, given the consequences, and the delineation between non pledged and pledged is blurry to say the least.

 

[Nowski]

Perhaps there should be "Innocent Wholesome Activity" POI with "Victim Resistance n" levels for crime intenders, to counterbalance the "Pirate Activity, Threat n" ones for bounty hunters?

 

[Wily Rites]

I killed an enemy ship who was not wanted yesterday, I wasn't sure what to do so I few in front of them in a menacing way, inciting them, they eventually started firing at which point I killed them with no repercussions.

I have to add that I think that diplomacy and subterfuge are far more powerful tools for undermining than mindless murder, but then that is why I'm not a pirate.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Perhaps there should be "Innocent Wholesome Activity" POI with "Victim Resistance n" levels for crime intenders, to counterbalance the "Pirate Activity, Threat n" ones for bounty hunters?

Personally I prefer less comaprtmentalisation (POI led) and more 'emergent' situations rewarded- upping merits would achieve that and do it very cheaply.

The knock on effect is that actions that destabilise powers is given prominence, fending off excessive stability (since players will be defensive).

 

[Nowski]

Personally I prefer less comaprtmentalisation (POI led) and more 'emergent' situations rewarded- upping merits would achieve that and do it very cheaply.

The idea being that the "victim resistance" levels would allow selection from a range of difficulty for opponents, with corresponding reward levels - given that the merit rewards for bounties seem to depend on the NPC level, which is tied to the POI threat level for Pirate Activity Detected POIs (right?)

 

[Rubbernuke]

The idea being that the "victim resistance" levels would allow selection from a range of difficulty for opponents, with corresponding reward levels - given that the merit rewards for bounties seem to depend on the NPC level, which is tied to the POI threat level for Pirate Activity Detected POIs (right?)

Its not a matter of difficulty, its the reward v the baggage that comes with it.

11 merits which costs me

-credits (max about 3 million per NPC regardless of rank)
-notoriety
-wanted status

 

[BinaryDuck]

Could notoriety and bountys be toned down if the target vessel is related to a PP power?
Would that be enough?

 

[Koma Pahu]

I don’t think the punishment is the issue, it’s just the low reward.

 

[Nowski]

Its not a matter of difficulty, its the reward v the baggage that comes with it.

Yeah, the reward seems incommensurate (though I wonder if the metric is "player time/effort" rather than the negative consequences you mention).

I'm just saying having a navigable difficulty range, and upping the rewards consistent with that, is better than increasing the reward wholesale.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Could notoriety and bountys be toned down if the target vessel is related to a PP power?
Would that be enough?

There already is a difference- what I'm highlighting is that your power asks you to kill and do bad things which fall foul of very punitive non BGS C+P. I don't care about the notoriety or credit cost, but, its the merits that should be put up.

In some ways from a local factions POV, killing civs should reward more than PP NPCs - you are killing citizens in front of thier 'protectors'. If that was the case, the excessive bounties would be entirely balanced.

 

[GroG79]

"Pirate Activity, Threat n"

These seem to have disappeared completely

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah, the reward seems incommensurate (though I wonder if the metric is "player time/effort" rather than the negative consequences you mention).

I'm just saying having a navigable difficulty range, and upping the rewards consistent with that, is better than increasing the reward wholesale.

Like I responded a bit earlier, its also fitting the concept of killing into Powerplay. The whole point of PP is showing you are the best power and others are weak.

What better way to do that than executing those who think you will protect them?

 

[Nowski]

What better way to do that than executing those who think you will protect them?

Well previously here:

killing civs should reward more than PP NPCs - you are killing citizens in front of thier 'protectors'.

And I tend to agree, especially high value or newsworthy NPCs - can you slaughter wedding parties btw? - but against that there's an IRL designation for such activity and I wouldn't blame FDEV for not wanting explicit player RP as .. that. Maybe I'm too cognizant of earlier moral panics over gaming, but still..

 

[Koma Pahu]

Like I responded a bit earlier, its also fitting the concept of killing into Powerplay. The whole point of PP is showing you are the best power and others are weak.

What better way to do that than executing those who think you will protect them?

This is absolutely in line with the lore given for Archon, but it doesn’t bleed into the gameplay.

I don’t know how it is across the various powers, but how you do PP should feel different depending on who you’re pledged to. Edit: Otherwise you’re only really choosing based on the rewards.

 

[aRJay]

As an outsider, currently, to PP I was wondering how many merits are needed for what they are needed for. To give us some context for the scale of theses rewards.

Ten would be quite good if you don’t need more than a few hundred but f you need thousands then ten is very poor.