Sadly the devs don't really think that far ahead, so I expect you'll be proven right. If only FDev permabanned proven bot accounts then these suggestions would not be needed.
[POWERPLAY] Disable all autopilot features when pledged (existing and incoming April update)
- Thread starter Rubbernuke
- Start date
Sadly the devs don't really think that far ahead, so I expect you'll be proven right. If only FDev permabanned proven bot accounts then these suggestions would not be needed.
Well, hopefully Mark II is better than the old DC, it had a disturbing habit of crashing. If I were you I'd let someone else test it.
FWIW, I support Open-only PowerPlay, and perhaps even some mechanism that required manual docking in silent running (to make it extra fun) when delivering PP-related cargo. But since the vast majority of my gameplay does not revolve around PP, I don't want to be penalized solely for being pledged.
Oh, and I definitely support removing PP modules from PP and making them Tech Broker modules instead. You probably wouldn't like me much more than you like bots, since I PP mainly for the modules and "legitimate" PvP, not the bigger strategy game underneath it all (which I personally think is half-baked).
As a new player who just tried out PowerPlay for the first time this week...
- Every aspect of PowerPlay is less fun and less rewarding than it's corresponding counterpart in non-PowerPlay. Combat Zones vs Military Strikes... Delivery Missions vs Fortification Supply missions...
- There's no obvious way for a new player to even find active groups playing PowerPlay... and even if I do... Fortifying planets is more boring and tedious than mining engineering minerals on planets. (no wonder people bot this?) Jesus... could there possibly be a more boring activity than to PAY for the right, repeatedly, with 70+ clicks and 100,000 per group just to fill your hold to make ONE trip that takes multiple jumps and doesn't even fortify a system a 10th of the way? Even with a 380 ton cargo hold? Who would do this? It's the kind of mission you'd assign as punishment for bad behavior, not something rewarding, engaging, or fun to do in a game.
- As was said here... if there were meaningful rewards in PP, or decent upgrades... or if the missions were more engaging... or even if fortifying was ALWAYS done by bots but they were killable in missions... that'd be kinda fun. If Military Strikes were as engaging as Combat Zones are now, or if you had different ways to fortify a system that didn't make you pay dearly for the right to be bored and be rewarded poorly?
Seriously... what was the thinking of this game design?
Let's make players PAY massive $$$ for every 10-50 bits of stuff that they have to fly multiple stops to a planet... they can't just click one button and fill their hold and choose to pay either, they've gotta keep clicking... then that whole process will only be a 10th of what it takes to get the job done. The job will pay less than the player pays in, and the weapons and rewards will be less useful than upgrades, weapons, and rewards for other parts of the game that require no commitment. Other than the cool pictures, what is the selling point for PowerPlay to a new player?
If this was done well, I'd be happy to contribute dozens of hours a week to a wing devoted to supporting a particular leader. As it sits you can't even find someone who is recruiting, and if you did, they want you to run Fortification missions 20 hours a week and pay for the right to do it.
- Every aspect of PowerPlay is less fun and less rewarding than it's corresponding counterpart in non-PowerPlay. Combat Zones vs Military Strikes... Delivery Missions vs Fortification Supply missions...
- There's no obvious way for a new player to even find active groups playing PowerPlay... and even if I do... Fortifying planets is more boring and tedious than mining engineering minerals on planets. (no wonder people bot this?) Jesus... could there possibly be a more boring activity than to PAY for the right, repeatedly, with 70+ clicks and 100,000 per group just to fill your hold to make ONE trip that takes multiple jumps and doesn't even fortify a system a 10th of the way? Even with a 380 ton cargo hold? Who would do this? It's the kind of mission you'd assign as punishment for bad behavior, not something rewarding, engaging, or fun to do in a game.
- As was said here... if there were meaningful rewards in PP, or decent upgrades... or if the missions were more engaging... or even if fortifying was ALWAYS done by bots but they were killable in missions... that'd be kinda fun. If Military Strikes were as engaging as Combat Zones are now, or if you had different ways to fortify a system that didn't make you pay dearly for the right to be bored and be rewarded poorly?
Seriously... what was the thinking of this game design?
Let's make players PAY massive $$$ for every 10-50 bits of stuff that they have to fly multiple stops to a planet... they can't just click one button and fill their hold and choose to pay either, they've gotta keep clicking... then that whole process will only be a 10th of what it takes to get the job done. The job will pay less than the player pays in, and the weapons and rewards will be less useful than upgrades, weapons, and rewards for other parts of the game that require no commitment. Other than the cool pictures, what is the selling point for PowerPlay to a new player?
If this was done well, I'd be happy to contribute dozens of hours a week to a wing devoted to supporting a particular leader. As it sits you can't even find someone who is recruiting, and if you did, they want you to run Fortification missions 20 hours a week and pay for the right to do it.
True, I had not thought of that eventuality. Its a shame FD never put in the switching on and off of pledge status.
The amusing thing about this statement is that when Powerplay started, I was still in my Cobra, had about a million to my name, and to this day my 1337 combat skills consists of pretty good Supercruise skills and knowing that it’s better to stay out of your attacker’s firing arc while waiting to jump out. The ALD leadership even had recommendations about what systems were good for small ships or medium ships like mine to fortify.
There is nothing inherently “end game” about Powerplay, unless you’re interested in participating in PvP combat.
When you start, and I mean fresh having to travel 250 times to fortify one system, and being faced with 60 plus systems and where to start, is not a beginner activity. To understand the underpinnings of PP takes time and patience. That does not even include combat skills in combat expansions which are brutal to newcomers in new ships with little engineering. A newcomer in PvP with a weak ship is, well, dead, over and over.
True.
But participating in Powerplay doesn’t require anyone to participate in PvP in combat expansions. It merely requires basic proficiency in hauling cargo from A to B, or sufficient combat skill to interdict and kill NPCs in an enemy Control System. “Understanding the underpinnings of PP” doesn’t require any “endgame skills” either, just a willingness to spend a minimum amount of time on learning the rules as presented in the game, or better yet looking up one of the many guides to Powerplay out there, given that the in-game information leaves out critical, need to know information.
There is a rather large range in skills between complete newbie and being skilled at PvP, and participating in Powerplay doesn’t require the latter, unless you’re deliberately seeking that kind of thing out.
For a beginner in solo, a combat expansion can be lethal, simply as Powerplay CZs follow old school rules- they drop you right in the centre of the fight, and you don't have the luxury of picking sides as you are automatically hostile. If you get it wrong, misread the area or are unlucky, you are toast as inexperience will make them panic.
If this person is flying a small ship like a Cobra, how many trips on the minimum rank 1 allocation can they do? Undermining is probably the safest way to earn merits, but even then you need to know SC interdiction. If you try it at a NAV you will face 4 - 6 rival power ships, all angry when you claim merits. Advanced tactics exist for UM but they are beyond the scope of a day 1 beginner unless someone shows them and they take practice.
Players need to know also what systems are good and bad for Powers- no guide available tells you the closest is not always the best (and is often the worst move possible). They need to know an awful lot to feel as if they are in control so they know what to do, and thats on top of controlling an unfamiliar ship, in a feature that paints a target on you.
I'm finding your various statements somewhat conflicting. On one hand, you say PowerPlay is an end-game endeavor that can be lethal to beginners, yet on the other hand you say that dumb bots are a major problem. So how is it that PP is so hard for humans and yet so easy for simple scripts and macros?
That's because he doesn't seem willing to acknowledge that there's a range of skill between complete newbie and 1337 PvPer, and one doesn't need to be a 1337 PvPer to participate in Powerplay. One does need to develop basic competencies at the game, as well as a decent ship, to participate in Powerplay, but that is a far cry from:
This right here highlights something wrong with power play. it should be focused on the struggle between the superpowers and the storylines between them, not simply "I want this benefit so I support this person who I don't even care about."
I don't see how not allowing the supercruise module to work for those pledged would stop botters. The botter culprits are already using bots and scripts outside of what's available ingame and would likely have no need for the new functionality anyways. And it could likely be the case that more pledgers who don't bot or don't know how to would be using the sc module for the extra convenience/QoL if they do a lot of hauling related pp goals for the weekly tick where the added convenience could be used by non-botter pledgers of any power.
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Right, and people should join the military to support their countries, but they often join because they want the benefits. Stop offering benefits and only those who care about the storylines will join.
Hauling in Powerplay is indeed simple, but its monotonous and requires lots of disposable income. To be effective in hauling these days you need to be rank 5. To buy your way to rank 5 costs 100 million, to buy a rank 5 allocation each week is 50 million. Small change to people with big ships and access to high paying missions. To a beginner? A Rank 1 allocation is 10, a Hauler can take 18 with a small shield. How many trips does it take to fortify a target of 3000? 5000? 10,000?
Grind has escalated the amounts of prep, fortifying and hauling- and since the task is repetitive and simple a bot is perfect with those with deep pockets. So, you either wait 30 minutes and repeat, or buy each allocation. People have billions of credits, and with Void Opal mining recharge quite easily making huge prep and hauling totals possible with bots.
While I understand why you are asking for this, I can't really see how that will help. Bots are already around, turning off those modules won't change anything. It may make it slightly easier to program a bot, but as the software is already there it's pretty irrelavent. Most of these bots would be in solo anyway.
What needs to happen is a complete revamp of powerplay. Either make it open only or turn it into a PvE battleground with optional PvP like the BGS and give it much closer links to the BGS factions system.
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Powerplay relies on big ships, lots of money and lots of skill.
In Powerplay, a decent ship is a large ship, something you have forgotten as a BGS manipulation player it seems.
Grind and modes have inflated the amounts of work required in Powerplay to the point where only large ships make a perceptible difference. A Hauler can move 18 cargo a time. A Cutter and T-9 700+. An unfavourable system can have triggers upward of 10,000. If Sandros proposal goes through with uncapped fortification, the totals will go up and up. How does a player feel in a Hauler looking at a field of numbers knowing they could haul 100 merits for very little reward? How is that being effective? Is that enjoyable?
To be efficient in PP combat you need a powerful ship thats strong and the skills to use it. You can quite happily undermine or expand in a Cobra, but thats not going to last against 6 PP NPCs at a Nav, and if you are sensible you'll be running away often. Again, when numbers inflate to the millions how does that make someone not familiar with Powerplay feel?
And that does not even include fighting other players. In an Open combat expansion how would a Cobra deal with an FdL? A '1337 PvPer' as you so quaintly put it, will wipe the floor with anyone not their equal in skill or ship. So again, participating is not the same as seeing yourself progress and make a visbile difference based on the time you put in.
So sure, you can participate. Beginners find PP difficult because they lack the means to do the tasks either via money ships and skills based on the time they can spend. Those in the middle might have some of those, but they might look at the 'reward' for the time spent and wonder 'why am I doing this?'. Hence advanced players have the money, ships, skill to make an enjoyable difference to Powerplay and why I said the feature was 'end game'.
I'd love nothing better than a reveamp of Powerplay!
What a lot of people here fear is that this in game feature is superior to what botters currently use, and make the difficulty ceiling for making bots lower encouraging wider adoption.
Saying that, judging by the docking computers error rate in the past it might be a great Trojan Horse if botters did use it
Well, yeah, no worries! I'm on PS4, so those pesky bots can do no harm! Wait.. Except they will impact your powerplay even by running on PC in solo
