Powerplay: Ideas from the devs - Feedback wanted! #3

The more powerful ethos effects sound great. I would love to see instigating a civil war to switch a government to one that is less favorable towards their controlling power a viable tactic. On that note, would be interesting if effects like civil war, famine and other similar states denied CC generation in a system from the chaos they cause.
Similarly, I also like the freedom fighters idea. Would be interesting if people pledged to a power could sign up as freedom fighters for a minor power housed in another power's systems, as sort of a black ops operation. Along those lines, and my thoughts above, it would be cool if these freedom fighters didn't necessarily, side with the faction in power in whatever system they support. Rather, it would be interesting if they supported the faction least favorable to the controlling power with the most power in that system. If the faction the freedom fighters support is different from the faction in power in that system, then successful action on their part, in addition to throwing off the shackles of the controlling power, would collapse the faction in control and start a civil war state.
So maybe system has this democracy government, which is just fervently supportive of their current overlords, power A. However, power B doesn't like that, and knows this up and coming despot hanging around in that system, who just hates power A. So they send a black ops mission to help this despotic faction gain power. Upon successfully doing whatever they need to do to trigger this, that system is lost to power A, and a civil war between the democratic and despotic factions starts. Maybe some people who just like the despot, or hate the democracy or the power supporting it, but not aligned with any power join in too, maybe not.

I was also thinking, especially if merits returned to a competitive system, it would be cool if the upper ranks formed sort of a council that got certain things only they could vote on. My idea for this is sort of power specific CGs that are decided by players in the power. Each week, they get to vote on a new one to do, that has a variety of things creating special benefits for the power, or penalties for other powers depending on levels of completion. Certain stuff like this black ops idea, allowing players from a power to become freedom fighters, is one idea. There could be something that restructures a controlled system, or roots out corruption, to increase the CC it generates, but there could also be other ones not related to CC mechanics. Some of these could be trade missions that confer a discount to all power members on a specific kind of item or ship, or just generate money for participants. a couple different locations and variations of each kind of mission would be generated each week, and high ranking players get to vote on which one of those actually takes effect. They could be something that really breaks the normal procedures within a power.
 
I think that these ideas sound really good. I put in alot of time at work, and with a wife, a daughter, and other responsibilities and games available, it's pretty impossible to put in the hours necessary to reach level 5. I don't really mind that fact... It's natural that people who have whole days to devote to gaming will reach higher goals than those that can only do it part time. Still, I'd love to have a chance to build up favor and eventually get into the upper ranks.

The up-down vote is an easy win. Can't hurt at all, and it might result in better understanding of the strategy for people just like myself, who want to help my power but don't want to spend my limited gaming time reading the forums and reddit.

And I love the flag idea. I waited a long time to get into PP (only on my second week), exactly because I was concerned I wouldn't be able to play normally. I was right too. Pledging has made trading interdictions more frequent and more difficult; however, I'm actually finding that I don't mind that so much as yet. Perhaps once I lose a ship with a full load of Palladium I'll change my mind...

Can I add one idea for you to fast track? Put in the ability to flag or notate a star system! I have something like 10 sidewinders scattered all over the place marking locations, and it's insane that I have to spend 32K to mark the location of a star or station on a chart. Not to mention it's starting to get difficult to remember why the ship/flag is there in the first place.
 
Just something more than ferrying boxes about would be nice. I know you can interdict stuff but what if there were an a conflict. What would happen, who would co-ordinate. Would people agree and support. This is the type of stuff that's happening all the time at moment (in the news). This kind of thing. Also what about back benchers vying to topple our glorious leaders, Can you support them or head off their efforts. When things go into turmoil, what about civil uprisings or citizens beseeching their leaders for aid in civil wars. All these kind of headaches are what galactic rulers would face.
 
Also ,if and/ or when aliens show up, what would people think of them. Do we nick their technology and if so would people go nuts. Would also (in the future) like to see some kind of espionage (i.e. sneaking onto stations and nicking plans for ship, equipment, etc).
 
Powerplay up/down vote: yep. Like that.
Favour: yes. like that idea.
Merit system. No, do not nerf (even with favour added) i do not like the competitive thing at ALL please do NOT bring this back in. I like to see exactly where i stand on this week to week and know when i have achieved a rank. Then i can know i can go and concentrate on other things that are non PP. I'd also like to see an intermediate level inbetween 4 and 5 introduced. Rank 4 is doable for me on an average week. Rank 5 is just not worth bothering about there is no way i can do this. The jump from 4 to 5 is just ridiculous. But an intermediate rank at ~5000merits? sometimes i could maybe get that working hard. At the moment, knowing i can only achieve rank 4 in powerplay means i do LESS.
 
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Not done any PP for a couple of weeks now as too busy with CGs and now off exploring. Not sure if I'm missing anything to be honest...
 
How about making Powerplay in some way connected to and meaningful to the larger galactic power structure (Empire, Federation, Alliance).

Right now it seems like those two systems are completely separate from and incompatible with each other, which is confusing and ruins the immersion factor of the game.
 
How about making Powerplay in some way connected to and meaningful to the larger galactic power structure (Empire, Federation, Alliance).

How about making an effort to actually respond to the powerplay bug reports in a timely manner rather than completely ignoring them for several cycles?
 
How about making an effort to actually respond to the powerplay bug reports in a timely manner rather than completely ignoring them for several cycles?

They have two choices IMHO...

Spend a minimal amount of time, balancing it best as they can, and then just leaving it for the ill-conceived questionable development it is (IMHO). Or, fundamentally redesigning and re-developing it into something that's actually more effective, productive and fun...

Not sure which I like the idea of more... The first at least means little further time is "wasted" on it. The latter, means risking a lot of time that could otherwise be spent on more productive areas (*cough* core mechanics * cough*), while also risking the "son of Powerplay" still not being up to scratch.

It would be nice if the latter is planned, if this time some of the core elements were run by the community? You have to wonder if this had been done originally, if the (initial) outcome might have not have been superior.
 
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I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but the maths is broken.
I can't even get my head around it.
We can't make bug reports if we don't know how it works or should work.
 
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Zac Antonaci and Sandro said:
I make no bones about my personal support for Powerplay: I love it. Grand scale power-struggles, driven entirely by Commanders, with special supporter rewards and legible, dynamically altering system rules that affect all Commanders, not just supporters.

But of course, I would say that.

And, about 19% of the forum, perhaps, agrees with you. :(
 
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Hello Commander Raist!

Don't worry, I'm not going to try to force you to like Powerplay :). But I do have a few comments you might find interesting.

Firstly, and importantly, Elite will not "become" Powerplay. It kind of can't, really. It's an addition to the background simulation, nothing more or less. Now you don't have to believe me, but we are working on lots of other stuff as well, equally important, and covering different aspects of the game, including the "core" experience, if you will. Elite is still about the actions you take as the Commander of a space ship.

When I look at Powerplay, what I actually see, at its heart, is a part of the background simulation where AI is replaced with human Commanders. When you think about it in terms of its systems, that shouldn't be too much of an outlandish concept. And I hold that there's something pretty cool about this, for everyone, including Commanders who have nothing to do with Powerplay directly.

So yes, we want to work on the system to increase the fun factor, make the rewards for taking part more appropriate, but it's key to remember that this is only to keep interesting shifts in the backdrop for everyone.

I can understand the fear that Powerplay is all there is, simply because it's the most visible thing at the moment. That's because it's live, and because we feel it could benefit from changes (and this is why we're talking, right :)).

There's other stuff coming, and I reckon, in time, people are going to realise that Powerplay is just another facet, another way to play the game, but certainly not the only way, and certainly not the "best" way.

So, I could be wrong, but I think an amount of the flak that the system is getting is down to this mismatch in perception of how important Powerplay is. The truth is, as long as Powerplay's interesting enough for *some* folk, it's working. But that shouldn't mean we don't try to maximize the number of folk who like it, surely?

In conclusion, for those folk who dislike Powerplay: that's fine, but there's no need to dislike it purely on the grounds that it is Elite. It's not. It's a bit of Elite, like trading, minor factions, the crime system etc.

We have an ongoing dev cycle for the game, for which I'm eternally grateful to the powers that be for, because it means we get to carry on making things better and better in this game I love. And part of that cycle is this bit, where we get to collect feedback from the folk who play the game, which, traumatic though it can be - I also love! :)

Thank you!
 
Just read the original post in this thread and I like these suggestion. I haven't slogged through all 39 pages of replies so some of what I say may already have been addressed by others.

I'm like some, I'm not able to play a whole huge amount. Maybe 10 hours a week, but more like 5 to 7. And therefore I haven't pledged to a power. But initiating the Favor system that was mentioned would give me a reason to pledge to a power. I love those prismatic shield generator Aisling offers. Of course I can't afford them right now, but I will be able to in the future. But if I'm not pledged to her, and have significant favor (merits right now), it doesn't matter if I have a billion credits, I can't buy one.

I also like the Power Play flag. But Favor shouldn't be canceled because you toggle it to hidden. Merits, maybe, but if favor doesn't decay normally, it shouldn't decay or go away because you toggled to hidden. What you've done will still be remembered even if they aren't able to act on it because you've went undercover. And I fully support cool down times for the PP flag. Absent those you will have abuse.

Nothing really to say about the freedom fighter concept except that it sounds like a fine idea.

Keep up the good work guys. YOU ROCK!!!
 
I also like the Power Play flag. But Favor shouldn't be canceled because you toggle it to hidden. Merits, maybe, but if favor doesn't decay normally, it shouldn't decay or go away because you toggled to hidden. What you've done will still be remembered even if they aren't able to act on it because you've went undercover. And I fully support cool down times for the PP flag. Absent those you will have abuse.
TBH, even this "Flag" sounds like a contrived mechanic on a contrived mechanic...

Consider why so many CMDRs even sigh up to a Power, to simply get a module in 3-4 weeks. Imagine what would have to be employed to simply prevent:-

Day 1) Pledge to a Power, and immediately turn the Flag off.
Day 22ish) Turn flag back on. Do stupid merit grind for an hour to earn enough to qualify for module. Hand them in. Turn flag off.
Day 27ish) Turn flag back on in time for cycle.
Day 28ish) You've been with the power long enough now, and qualify merit wise so buy module, unpledge.

note: Days are purely for example.

The abuse of PP becomes even more farcicle with you only being in it in effect for hours now, instead of 3-4 solid weeks.

Personally, sounds like an improvement to me though given the mess I perceive PP to be. ie: If I could get a PP reserved module, mainly never even having to be a part of PP... Great!
 
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TBH, even this "Flag" sounds like a contrived mechanic on a contrived mechanic...

Consider why so many CMDRs even sigh up to a Power, to simply get a module in 3-4 weeks. Imagine what would have to be employed to simply prevent:-

Day 1) Pledge to a Power, and immediately turn the Flag off.
Day 22ish) Turn flag back on. Do stupid merit grind for an hour to earn enough to qualify for module. Hand them in. Turn flag off.
Day 27ish) Turn flag back on in time for cycle.
Day 28ish) You've been with the power long enough now, and qualify merit wise so buy module, unpledge.

note: Days are purely for example.

The abuse of PP becomes even more farcicle with you only being in it in effect for hours now, instead of 3-4 solid weeks.

Personally, sounds like an improvement to me though given the mess I perceive PP to be. ie: If I could get a PP reserved module, mainly never even having to be a part of PP... Great!

Thing is though, favors wouldn't translate to merits on a 1 to 1 basis. You'd require quite a few favors to equal 1 merit. I'm thinking like 10 to 1 (just an example, of course.). So (based on that example) to get to 1000 merits you'd have to have 10,000 favor credits. But those favors wouldn't expire until they were actually spent whereas the equivalent 1000 merits would.
 
TLDR: see conclusion ;)

Concerning Favor:

Some people are not playing powerplay due to limited time: yes. I'm in that case.
Adding a new concept with its own additional rules etc, looks not very sexy IMHO.
Why merits decay over IRL time? Here is the issue.

Actually all thoses rules and concepts around powerplay is the second reason why I'm not involved in it:

1) As for politicians, you prefer to add new concepts and new rules for adding a new feature, instead of using and improving the existing ones.
I'm still confused why a "power" is a different concept than "minor faction".
Minor factions control a system, and can even grow to other systems. So do powers. The only addition I feel is the ability to have a nice picture of a power leader on the galnet board...

2) You developed a new static layer on a dynamic and procedural world:
There a limited list of powers, which are maintained on your side, by hand, for trying to add an interesting scenario behind it.
Rules are totally static and exposed so crudely that it totally breaks the immersion: This is a boardgame. It is inconsistent with the matter constituting ED. And it is not realistic at all: Why the hell powers are claiming to the universe "Pleeease prepare the System X!". It is obviously something that you don't want your enemies know!
And it is finally hardcoded that all powers are in an infinite war. Yes because Alliance, or "I-don't-care-about-you" would be probably additional concepts in a new ED version...

Why powers are not procedurally generated? Why major factions don't care about them? Those powers are excessively destabilizing systems of those major factions. Why I cannot pledge to my tiny local faction? Just because this is two different layers.
Each week there is a new turn, each week all efforts are computed and compared for a new turn.... A boardgame I said.

Since I tried to play into this huge galaxy, I can't play powerplay. It looks too different. It looks outside of my cockpit, outside of the stations and planets I'm visiting. It is something else than ED, as if you choose to include candy crush in the galnet board.

3) It smells strategic, it tastes strategic, but it is nothing except repetitive tasks
The only thing a power has to care about is CC. And players are just following each week where they can work. Yes work because you have to grind all days for earning merits and having your lovely bonuses.
I don't feel attached to those power leaders. In fact I don't care about Duval, Torval, Hudson or I don't know. I don't know what they try to do. I don't have any attraction to them. I just know they want to prepare, control or undermine systems, each weeks... And themself they don't care about me, since they forget 50% of my involvement after 7 days. What good friends!
I would probably be more interested about them if I tried to read the galnet news. But I have something else to do. There are pages of blablabla between them. Sometimes it useful, sometimes not. English is not my native language and it is sometimes an effort to understand what is behind each word, when you just want to play. Finally now I'm totally disconnected about what happens in Galnet because I found no way for finding a good abstract of what happened before...
So no story, no strategy, just grinding.

Some guys would say "but they are integrated in the background, see Mister or Miss X wants to prohibit slaves!"
Slaves? Are you talking about canister that cops interdict you to save from empty space? The one that you can only sell or destroy? (as for escape pod, that's so logical!). It is just a matter of bonuses.

Conclusion
There are so much to say in PowerPlay, probably because it is a big game with its own rules, own concepts, own goals. Totally disconnected from ED in my point of view.
So you can add a new concept of flag, a new concept of favor if you want, and new rules and new actions with them. But CMDRs who are not yet involved in PowerPlay would probably still stay distant even with those additions.
Sorry for this huge piece of text. I was terribly disappointed by PowerPlay, and I know that you spent good effort and time on it.
The good point: the powerplay map is really well done!
 
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TLDR: see conclusion ;)

Concerning Favor:

Some people are not playing powerplay due to limited time: yes. I'm in that case.
Adding a new concept with its own additional rules etc, looks not very sexy IMHO.
Why merits decay over IRL time? Here is the issue.

Actually all thoses rules and concepts around powerplay is the second reason why I'm not involved in it:

1) As for politicians, you prefer to add new concepts and new rules for adding a new feature, instead of using and improving the existing ones.
I'm still confused why a "power" is a different concept than "minor faction".
Minor factions control a system, and can even grow to other systems. So do powers. The only addition I feel is the ability to have a nice picture of a power leader on the galnet board...

2) You developed a new static layer on a dynamic and procedural world:
There a limited list of powers, which are maintained on your side, by hand, for trying to add an interesting scenario behind it.
Rules are totally static and exposed so crudely that it totally breaks the immersion: This is a boardgame. It is inconsistent with the matter constituting ED. And it is not realistic at all: Why the hell powers are claiming to the universe "Pleeease prepare the System X!". It is obviously something that you don't want your enemies know!
And it is finally hardcoded that all powers are in an infinite war. Yes because Alliance, or "I-don't-care-about-you" would be probably additional concepts in a new ED version...

Why powers are not procedurally generated? Why major factions don't care about them? Those powers are excessively destabilizing systems of those major factions. Why I cannot pledge to my tiny local faction? Just because this is two different layers.
Each week there is a new turn, each week all efforts are computed and compared for a new turn.... A boardgame I said.

Since I tried to play into this huge galaxy, I can't play powerplay. It looks too different. It looks outside of my cockpit, outside of the stations and planets I'm visiting. It is something else than ED, as if you choose to include candy crush in the galnet board.

3) It smells strategic, it tastes strategic, but it is nothing except repetitive tasks
The only thing a power has to care about is CC. And players are just following each week where they can work. Yes work because you have to grind all days for earning merits and having your lovely bonuses.
I don't feel attached to those power leaders. In fact I don't care about Duval, Torval, Hudson or I don't know. I don't know what they try to do. I don't have any attraction to them. I just know they want to prepare, control or undermine systems, each weeks... And themself they don't care about me, since they forget 50% of my involvement after 7 days. What good friends!
I would probably be more interested about them if I tried to read the galnet news. But I have something else to do. There are pages of blablabla between them. Sometimes it useful, sometimes not. English is not my native language and it is sometimes an effort to understand what is behind each word, when you just want to play. Finally now I'm totally disconnected about what happens in Galnet because I found no way for finding a good abstract of what happened before...
So no story, no strategy, just grinding.

Some guys would say "but they are integrated in the background, see Mister or Miss X wants to prohibit slaves!"
Slaves? Are you talking about canister that cops interdict you to save from empty space? The one that you can only sell or destroy? (as for escape pod, that's so logical!). It is just a matter of bonuses.

Conclusion
There are so much to say in PowerPlay, probably because it is a big game with its own rules, own concepts, own goals. Totally disconnected from ED in my point of view.
So you can add a new concept of flag, a new concept of favor if you want, and new rules and new actions with them. But CMDRs who are not yet involved in PowerPlay would probably still stay distant even with those additions.
Sorry for this huge piece of text. I was terribly disappointed by PowerPlay, and I know that you spent good effort and time on it.
The good point: the powerplay map is really well done!

I pretty much agree with this. They should have massively expanded the background sim and made that feel more alive and called that power play then have what we have here. It just feels wrong.
You could of had a lot of the powerplay mechanics added into minor factions.
 
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